SCD vs. Paleo

I don't think Paleo is any better than any other diet where you are trying to eat healthy foods. Either go with SCD, or keep a food diary and see which foods you tolerate best. The FODMAP diet is a good elimination diet to help you figure out what your trigger foods are. It is not meant to be a permanent diet, but rather a tool to help you learn what is best for your body.
We all have different bacterial balance in our bodies and different locations and effects of the Crohn's disease. What works for one person is often disastrous for another. If you felt great with the SCD, then I'd suggest starting there, and then slowly experiment with one food group or another to see if you still feel great or get worse. It really is trial and error.
I also can tolerate certain foods at times, and then other times I can't, so I don't even stay the same as an individual!

You can also look at the Paleo Auto Immune Protocol (Paleo AIP). Of course it's even more restrictive. But it's a good clean elimination diet. I discovered many foods I had an intolerance too when i did it.

The idea behind SCD is that you aren't feeding the bad bacteria (while promoting the good)

This is a nonsense idea though, since nobody can say what these 'bad' bacteria are - or, indeed, what the good bacteria are. It's quite possible that, in Crohn's, the immune system attacks commensurate bacteria that would be harmless, or even beneficial, in healthy folks. That's why I can't take the science behind the SCD diet too seriously. It seems to me it works on the principle of extreme overkill: if you remove 95% of food items from your diet then, yeah, you are pretty likely to eliminate whatever it is which is triggering your immune system to go on the attack. An elemental diet works on a similar principle. Elemental diets are designed to be temporary though.

Everyone has a unique microbiome, therefore your 'bad' bacteria will also be unique to you. Worrying about bacteria that you can't even identify is a waste of time, imo. By all means use the SCD as a starting point - even stay on it for life, if you want. If you don't want that, then experiment with reintroducing single foods for a few days at a time, and monitoring your reaction to them. If good, keep them in your diet; if bad, get rid.

One more thing to add: feeling great doesn't always add up to doing great internally. Have regular checkups and be prepared to get on the meds (if you aren't currently on any) if the inflammation returns or gets worse.

PS: Also, you can't selectively 'starve' out some bacteria whilst leaving others alone: they're all gonna get starved out, good and bad alike. As for the SCD yogurt, which supposedly replenishes the 'good' bacteria, it has about 3 species compared to your microbiome's several hundred species, so it's leaving out rather a lot of bacteria. And since some people have a bad reaction to the SCD yogurt, it seems like those 3 or 4 species don't even manage to be good for everybody.

Post Edited (NiceCupOfTea) : 7/8/2017 7:48:59 PM (GMT-6)

I think some folks really believe in the healing power of food. Others do not. Each to their own.

The best diet is the one that works for you. If your current approach works I would not change one thing. I hope it gives 100% healing.

However, if it does not, and you cannot figure it out, following a defined diet, may help.

I do not understand the conclusion that some have come to, that there is no correlation between what we put in our guts and our health, but each to their own.

Hope you find a healing path that works for you
Dave

DaveF said...
I think some folks really believe in the healing power of food. Others do not. Each to their own.

Again, the "healing power" of food is a scientifically nonsense notion. Some foods may be better for you than others, but there is literally no food which heals inflammation - your own body does that just fine left to its own devices, no matter what you eat. (Even in Crohn's, the body is constantly attempting to heal the damage your getting-hold-of-the-wrong-end-of-the-stick immune system does to the intestines; hence the eventual scarring which results.)

snappy2000 said...
Wow! Thank you for your detailed reply! These have mostly been my beliefs about the diet for a while. When I think I'm flaring, I just get scared and desperate and start considering things that helped in the past and anecdotally for everyone. The science behind it has always seemed questionable to me and what you said makes complete sense. Here's what I'm going to do instead : remove all known items that give me immediate problems (basically everything with gluten {although I don't blame gluten}), and rice. Also will avoid sugar and processed foods. It's a healthy diet, and I don't have to worry about what wil bec"illegal" the next minute, or break out my bifocals to read labels. I'm about to go to the grocery store and you saved me from agonizing over details. Thank you for your help!

No worries!

The SCD diet is an old diet that has been around for decades and was first used to treat coeliac disease in children by Sidney Hass. Elaine Gottschall popularised it with her book Breaking The Vicious Cycle 30 years ago. Hass managed to successfully treat kids with coeliac, but he was wrong about one crucial point: he denied that gluten was the damaging part of wheat, insisting carbs were the problem. Mainstream science moved on and now treats coeliac disease with a gluten-free diet, but the SCD has been taken up with enthusiasm by the cranks and promoted as a treatment for IBD, autism, 'leaky gut', etc.

One more thing: IBD is known for causing temporary food intolerances during flare-ups. Most of these (gluten, lactose, etc.) will go away in remission, but it is possible that some of them could become permanent. It sucks, but IBD can damage the bowels in such a way - particularly after bowel surgery - that chronic IBS is the result.

For some people as well, there really is no obvious correlation between diet and disease progression. For years I tried to eat more healthily and my disease got steadily worse, even though by that point I was hardly eating anything anyway. Then I had my first surgery and ate rubbish for two years, and my disease - as far as I know - stayed in remission until I had my second surgery. It's possible that 'junk' food could worsen Crohn's in some cases, but it's nothing which has ever been proven.

She can continue to exclaim that the world is flat

I hope you do not listen to her nonsense and do your own research.

Do not listen to silly people that discourage you

Ha ha.

Says the one who's been throwing around nonsense, non-scientific terms like "healing power of food" and follows a 60-year-old diet to the literal letter because he cannot think for himself.

Anyway, have you decided whether or not you have Crohn's, David? Because a few years ago you wanted to officially remove your diagnosis, claiming you didn't think it was Crohn's for various reasons. (Remember?) You can't preach about the SCD healing your Crohn's, if it was something you never had in the first place.

Don't talk to me about science, m8, you're the least scientific person on this board.

Post Edited (NiceCupOfTea) : 7/10/2017 5:44:05 AM (GMT-6)

Thank you everyone for your help. I won't be doing the SCD diet but will more strictly adhere to my personal diet and avoid foods that after 15 years of trial have proven to mess me up (but I sometimes eat anyway because they are some of my favorites!). I just consider myself really lucky that I can eat so many good foods without trouble. Some people hear that I can't eat flour and wonder why I don't cry myself to sleep every night.

Eh, it's ok. People are so passionately divided on these things! But I was able to get what I needed from the conversation, so it's cool. Thank you!

I've been in emission for some time now, however I have food tolerance issues that lead to symptoms such as discomfort, pain, loose still and crazy D. Thankfully the episodes are few and far between. They scare me when they hit - as I immediately think flare.

I revert back to SCD foods for a day or two and things have always normalized again. Once I feel better, I add things like potato, gluten free bread (Glutino), Quiona etc. However just through force of habit I tend to eat primarily SCD/Paleo.

Now I've gone and forgot what the actual question was!! haha...

Anyway, when I was very ill from aggressive Crohns-Colitis I stuck to SCD - 100% strict for well over a year. It helped. Combined with meds like Remicade I even achieved clinical remission. Going off SCD while on Remicade led to a build up of symptoms again. So over time I learned it was the combo of both that helped me. Eventually I had to stop Remicade and wham... flare... even while on SCD.

So I just don't know one way or the other if it does me any good. I will say that eating SCD my body feels better. Full, no bloating and uncomfortableness.

My two cents.


Also like snappy stated below I too have my safe foods list that happen to also be mostly SCD legal. So my diet is really just safe foods. No particular 'style' or name. Just lots of safe foods that I occasionally wander from and get into trouble.