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Posted 6/10/2008 6:02 PM (GMT 0)

Celey said...
Your own experience with bee propolis produces no side effects for you... That's great. It might be a different case for someone else, though...

Thus, it would have side effects, then, wouldn't it?

No not necessarily would it have side effects for anyone eles either, unless of course they're allergic to bees which I've already mentioned those people should avoid it, but if you don't have bee allergies then it does not still necessarily have side effects.

 

Just like chamomile tea, unless you're allergic to ragweed then you wouldn't have side effects from drinking it.

 

What exactly do you think doctors were using to treat their patients with before RX came about??

 

There can be pros and cons to both sides, don't knock all naturals based on the fact that you've maby had a bad experiance or no experiance with them...many others have benefitted highly from them...I wouldn't be down to 5 times a day if it wasn't for them and I don't take any oral RX because I'm either allergic or non-responsive...what would you do if all the sudden your meds stopped working and you weren't able to take any oral RX, would you sit and suffer or would you try naturals out of desperation??  Because that's what I did, and I'm glad I put my skeptisism aside to do so or who knows where I'd be right now...not likely in a very good place that's for sure.

 

You here more stories on the news of people dying or other life-threatening complications from RX compared to naturals.

 

Even my GI encourages me to continue with the bee propolis because he said it's 100% non-toxic and even if it didn't help so much with my symptoms it's still and excellent source of dietary supplementation since us IBDers don't necessarily get all the nutrients via diet alone...and he's a lead researcher in Canada for crohn's and colitis.  All that matters to him is his patients find relief and he even suggested I see a naturalist if I wanted to because he knows there's nothing that he's able to give me to aid with my crohns and IBS.

Posted 6/10/2008 6:23 PM (GMT 0)
Wouldn't drowsiness be considered a side effect of chamomile tea? *lol* ('Course, a lot of people usually drink chamomile tea before bed to help them get to sleep... but still...)...

And pb4, you'd have to be more specific by exactly what you mean about 'what doctors were using before RX came about'...

Are we talking medieval times here or what? (A lot of the stuff doctors did in the past were pretty... umm... dangerous... that's why people tended not to live so long back then...)...

And I've already told you that I'm well aware of more stories on the news of people dying from RX compared to naturals. And I've already told you that most stories about naturals being dangerous and causing deaths and such usually don't get news coverage. I don't know why (powerful influence from the natural companies, perhaps?)

Anyway... I never said bee propolis is bad or that you're wrong to take it pb4. (Wasn't even trying to suggest it was a scam... I'm just saying that just because you take it and you have no side effects from it, doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. Everybody's bodies reacts to things differently... and here's something else you need to take into account. Bee propolis is obviously powerful enough to cause enough of a change in your body to help you feel better. Any substance that can do that can have side effects because it is effecting the body in such a manner.)

I'm always weary of products that claim to have no side effects... it's very possible for a product to have just a few side effects (and not a ridiculous amount of them like is common with most all RX), but it does not make sense for something to have no side effects whatsoever unless it is not powerful enough to cause any significant change in the body (say, if you were to eat a carrot. Hey, carrots are good for you... good for the eyes. But it's not going to cure you of blindness or even cause noticeable improvement in some eye-related condition. Of course, neither will it cause you extremely bad headaches or turn your skin orange, etc. etc. etc.)

And what I meant earlier about a product claiming to be able to treat a multitude of symptoms... I really mean it. The multitude of symptoms list would be about as long as the side effect list for RX.

This natural product can improve concentration, cut down on bowel movements, relieve abdominal pain, relieve nausea, help you lose weight, relieve depression and anxiety, promote your body's natural healing process, relieve tension headaches, smoothe out wrinkles, reduce acne...

Etc. etc. etc.... It is possible for a product to treat a multitude of symptoms, but when the symptom list contains symptoms that are unrelated to each other and is ridiculously lengthy... Something is up.
Posted 6/10/2008 6:35 PM (GMT 0)
Before there were RX, doctors used naturals, chamomile tea may have been perscribed to help people sleep, I drink it first thing in the day and it doesn't cause me any drowsiness.

Sure there may have been some dangerous naturals used in the past especially if they were used wrong, but many people today use some meds correctly and still die, or go blind or a long list of other things, you'd think that in this day and age those things wouldn't happen anymore but they do.

You don't have to "buy" the claims, the bee propolis isn't even geared towards crohn's disease and it helped control and even stop many of my symptoms for which I'm grateful for, so I'll continue with it, as my GI encourages me to, afterall as he said it is 100% non-toxic, I don't know how many, if any oral RX can claim that.
Posted 6/10/2008 6:42 PM (GMT 0)
I had to laugh reading this thread. We have this issue in a big way on the UC board, too. We've had people "cured" by almost anything you can name, except for recognized treatments. The cures have included eating a can of spinach every day (don't think it would cure me, but it would make my stool a lovely green) to doing push-ups and sit-ups after every meal to getting their dental braces taken off.

Our minds are wonderful things, they can convince us of almost anything.
Posted 6/10/2008 6:47 PM (GMT 0)
Spinach every day ???????? Then you could call me,,,Mr. Green Jeans....
Posted 6/10/2008 7:17 PM (GMT 0)
Sniper I would be right there with you, only Mrs. Green everything:) As for the push ups & sits up..........HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Not in there wildest dreams are those happening for me. My old arthritic/fibro body would stiffen all up, and I would have a stomach ache too.
Posted 6/10/2008 7:24 PM (GMT 0)

Celey said...

 Hey, carrots are good for you... good for the eyes. But it's not going to cure you of blindness or even cause noticeable improvement in some eye-related condition. Of course, neither will it cause you extremely bad headaches or turn your skin orange, etc. etc. etc.)

  • Over-consumption of vitamin A can be toxic to humans but over-consumption of carotenes is never toxic since carotene breakdown is well-controlled. Over-consumption of carotenes or carrots can give the skin an orange tone but this is not harmful.

    • My nephew got an orange tone to his skin because it was the only thing he'd eat as a toddler...so I've seen it with my own eyes...of course it won't cure blindness but carrots are well know to help/improve/maintain good eye sight...my nephew still loves carrots, he doesn't wear glasses, has great eyes, his brother on the other hand whom wasn't a carrot freak does wear glasses, but hey, at least his skin never turned orange (because he never ate enough of them for a long period of time).

    Posted 6/10/2008 7:37 PM (GMT 0)
    Celey said...  Hey, carrots are good for you... good for the eyes. But it's not going to cure you of blindness or even cause noticeable improvement in some eye-related condition. Of course, neither will it cause you extremely bad headaches or turn your skin orange, etc. etc. etc.) Carrots can cause you to turn orange. I have a great juicer and some of the carrot recipes I found on the Internet said to be careful not to consume too much carrot juice cause it can turn you orange. Too bad cause I love the stuff. Karen
    Posted 6/10/2008 7:42 PM (GMT 0)
    oops, I did not see that pb4 said the carrots can cause you to turn orange already, sorry. as for the spinach I heard the minerals in it can cause kidney stones if too much is consumed. (I think you would have to eat it every day) I think that the risk of stones is high enough for us as it is! Of course I don't see a warning label on spinach or carrots for that matter. where would they put it? :) Also, some natural remedies really work. I just started a probotic and I am feeling like it may be doing something already. Not for my CD but for another infection it can help :) I did not see many warnings on it or side effects. I am all for the natural stuff in addition to my RX's. Karen
    Posted 6/10/2008 7:55 PM (GMT 0)
    *lol* I know carrots can turn your skin orange if you eat too many of them... (I threw the whole skin turning orange thing in there just for the fun of it. One carrot a day is unlikely to turn your skin orange... several carrots a day on the other hand, will. It's like with anything else... if you consume a large amount of something it's going to cause your body to react in some way)
    Posted 6/10/2008 8:00 PM (GMT 0)
    I have to agree with the Probiotics. Those have helped me so much. I use to go 5-7 times a day, now only 1-2. But even the GI's are getting on board with those and recommending them. I know my GI is very supportive of me taking them.
    Posted 6/10/2008 8:31 PM (GMT 0)
    I'm still researching the probiotic thing myself... *Just can't seem to find one that has some good research behind it and that doesn't talk about cutting down on bowel movements*

    Oh... One note about the spinach, though. I've been having a very interesting day today. Interesting in that my bathroom experiences haven't been as painful as they usually are...

    Last night, I had a bowl full of spinach leaves... and I think it might have something to do with my easier time in the bathroom because... err... well... *You can see the bits and pieces of the spinach leaves... Obviously, they didn't digest well, but...*

    It sure is nice to be able to go without so much pain and struggle...
    Posted 6/11/2008 12:33 AM (GMT 0)
    You can't find one that has good research behind it????

    Have you not heard of VSL3 and the research that has been done on it for those specifically with ulcerative colitis...this info came out ages ago...I have it bookmarked because I figured if there were any skeptics out there regarding probiotics, then I could post the link for them.

    And ya, I think it's pretty much common sense that eating one or a few carrots won't turn you orange...but eating enough of them eventually will.
    Posted 6/11/2008 1:13 AM (GMT 0)
    Ok kids. Play nice or start a new thread lol! Ivy did a lot of work to get all that med info in one place. But at least you are keeping it at the top!
    Posted 6/11/2008 1:15 AM (GMT 0)
    Yeah... I have heard of VSL 3... That's the one I really wanted to try, but... You missed the other part... I have constipation with my Crohn's. Really bad constipation... I don't NEED my bowel movements to be cut back on. And if VSL 3 does that, then... well, it wouldn't be a good match with me.
    Posted 6/11/2008 1:17 AM (GMT 0)
    peace folks....
    Posted 6/11/2008 3:07 AM (GMT 0)

    We are playing nice and there is peace here, why the assumption that there isn't??

    Celey, here's this VSL3 link

    http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/10/12/probiotics.html#skip300x250

    It might load in funny, just scroll to the top if it does, the article is on the page...

    Why do you think probiotcs will cause you issues because you're more prone to being a constipated crohnie?  What ever gave you that idea??  It's more than unlikely, probiotics are not all about firming up stool or causing constipation or making it worse, it's all about gut flora balance, and with gut flora balance you shouldn't have issues with D or C...VSL3 is very, very strong because of it's highest ever potency in a probiotic, if you try it, start with a smaller amount than called for...heavens sake, don't be afraid of probiotics, they are friendly bacteria.

    Posted 6/11/2008 4:12 AM (GMT 0)
    Hmmmmm, think I saw a blind orange rabbit one time, eating greens. If white rabbits eat beets, do they turn pink ? You guys have me wondering. Popeye ate spinach every day and look what it did to his forearms. I use to eat lots of spinach when I was young and all I got was hair like Popeye,,about three strands I think. As for bouncing, I live in La. With our crappy roads I bounce all the time. Yep, 200 years of history unimpeded by progress. When you cross into Louisiana there is a sign. Welcome to Louisiana, please set your watch back 50 years. Its scary and now I have to watch out for scams too. If I'm not careful I could have an out of money experience.I think I have the bee propolis thing figured out too. You see the little darlings dont like drafty hives because they dont like to share honey with other critters. They gather up tree sap, chew it up and use it like caulking. Its is a very very good glue also as any bee keeper will tell you. These little ladies dont like any space over 3/8 of an inch and they fill any unused space with propolis. You have to pry ever frame out of a hive because its glued in with the stuff. The answer is, Its natures glue sterilized with bee spit. Stands to reason that it would help glue thing together when you eat it.I use to scrape the stuff out by the ton. Too bad I dont keep bees any more. I could get it for you guys and save you lots of money.
    Posted 6/11/2008 5:16 AM (GMT 0)
    LOL sniper you're too much...I do have to say though, I feel I'm getting off cheap with what I pay for bee propolis but I have no doubt as sweet as you are that you would give an even better deal if you still had yours to give.

    What did you end up doing with all your bees anyway? Did you sell them or tell them to buzz off?

    :)
    Posted 6/11/2008 5:51 AM (GMT 0)
    pb4, keeping bees is lots of work. You have to check the hives at least once per week to make sure they are not making queen cells or a new queen. If they do they will swarm and there goes a large part of your workers. This means going into every hive to check. Then there was the varola mite problem that almost wiped all the bees out. We got through this and now we are watching for the africanized bees to arrive. There are some that are requeening those hives with russian queens and doing well with them though.The queen controls the temperament of the hive. In most breeds of bee, the queen stays mad for just a few minutes. The africanized queen can stay mad for hours. I just could not keep up with all the things I needed to do to keep my hives healthy and productive so I gave them to a bee keeper that I knew. I get a jar of honey from him now and then but being diabetic, I dont eat much. I do miss them though. They are fantastic to watch and learn about. In my many years of keeping them the only stings I got were my fault. I either pinned one removing a frame or one crawling under an arm when I brought my arm down. They die when they sting and they need a good reason for that. I really think you should see the inside of a hive with your own eyes. They do wonders in there.
    Posted 6/11/2008 1:26 PM (GMT 0)
    Celey, It may help you to know that my Probiotic has a claim that it contains the beneficial bacteria that yogurt has. So I feel I am taking a pill to substitute for the yogurt I can't eat or don't eat :) (I just gag when I eat yogurt, yuck) I think most people here say Probiotics reduced their trips to the bathroom because the bacteria improves the function of their colon etc. So for you it may make you go more? or maybe even have less constipation.  I can understand you not wanting to try it yet, heck it took me a whole year to try them myself. Also, if you google Candida and Probiotics you will get tons of info how Probiotics are good for women's health. Heck who wouldn't want to take something that can stop a yeast infection in its tracks? So, you may want to look at other angles of it. I also looked at reviews for probiotics and read what people said about them. I personally like the spirited debate. As long as each person is giving their views I see no harm. Karen
    Posted 6/11/2008 2:19 PM (GMT 0)
    Haha, sorry about my post PB4 and Celey. I thought you guys were on the med info post and I was like wow, this is really off topic. My bad.
    Posted 6/11/2008 3:07 PM (GMT 0)
    That's okay FitzyK, that's funny though. Just proves once again how crappy our memories seem to get when we think we're on one particular post when really we're on another...classic eh.

    :)
    Posted 6/11/2008 3:12 PM (GMT 0)
    Wow Sniper I bet you do miss them but you're right it sounds like alot of work and stress too...I've watched shows about bees on the learning channel and they are truly amazing no doubt there.

    I've never been stung by a bee or bitten by a hornet (wasp) in my almost 41 yrs of life and I count my lucky starts for that...once I saw my mom with a stinger in her arm (she's was and still is an avid gardener) and it didn't look too fun, her arm looked pretty sore (so did she actually).

    Do you use Stevia for your diabetes? Reason I ask is my brother is also diabetic and he loves Stevia and it caused him no issues what so ever, something to consider.

    :)
    Posted 6/11/2008 5:03 PM (GMT 0)
    I got the idea, Pb4... from other members on the board who use probiotics or have used probiotics... I read somewhere (and I can't remember where) one of the board members' kid or whatever was using a probiotic (VSL 3, I think it was, in fact) and was actually having 3 regular bowel movements a day... and that got cut down... and the kid wasn't too happy about that...
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