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Posted 6/4/2009 7:13 PM (GMT 0)
Our GI doctor put my daughter on Flagyl (still not sure why he did this in the first place) and now she has candida in her digestive tract. He has started her on diflucan. She was supposed to have her first Remicade treatment yesterday and because she is taking this, she has to delay it. That, in itself, is another story that really gets my blood boiling. Anyway, my question is...Has anyone used New Chapter's Candida Take Care? It's a cranberry extract. If you have did it work and is it safe to take with her Diflucan?
Posted 6/5/2009 12:15 AM (GMT 0)
Hi itainteasy...sorry your daughter is having a hard time. I don't know anything about that candida product you were asking about. I would run it by your doctor.

As you probably know, candida can be extremely hard to get rid of--even with Diflucan. Some things she can do to help rid herself of it is to remove all processed foods from her diet. Especially bad are sugar and white flour which feed candida and perpetuate the intestinal imbalance. Also, she might want to add a really high quality yogurt (like Stonyfield Farms or another organic brand) for the BENEFICIAL bacteria for her intestines. She might even want to consider an anti-candida diet. The Specific Carbohydrate diet is anti-candida because it removes sugars and grains. It is also recommended for Crohn's sufferers. My son has been following it for nearly two years now.

Doesn't the use of Flagyl for Crohn's sometimes mean a C.diff infection? You might want to ask about the reason he put her on it.

I hope she feels much better very soon!
Posted 6/5/2009 12:53 AM (GMT 0)
Actually, from what I learned recently, Flagyl is one of the first line treatments for C-diff. While it's possible to get an overgrowth of c-diff with any antibiotic use, I think that Flagyl is one of the least likely. The second treatment is vancomycin. (Someone with more c-diff experience can set that straight if it's wrong, but that's what I read while worrying about it myself.)

Did the doctor do a stool culture?

Also, along with yogurt, a good probiotic would be beneficial. There's VSL#3, as we've all read about, but I started Florestor on the recommendation of someone on here. My GI is very much in favor of both those probiotics.

Good luck!
Posted 6/5/2009 1:42 AM (GMT 0)
Ditto EMom...good advice. If the SCD is too strict for you, there are other, less strict antifungal diets to try.
Posted 6/5/2009 3:00 AM (GMT 0)
When I asked the GI doc why he put her on Flagyl, he said it was just standard for her area of crohn's (in the duodenum). I have never seen this in any research I have done however. Right now the biggest problem is that she has had many upper scopes to dilate her pyloric stricture. Since her stomach isn't emptying at a normal rate, they start her on a liquid diet almost 3 days in advance so she really has a difficult time cutting sugar from her diet since she needs calories and takes Breeze and Kids Essentials (Ensure type product). It is so frustrating that this occurred because I feel there isn't a good reason for her to be on Flagyl. Either way she is off it now, but dealing with this. The other issue that might be a culprit is that she is on Prevacid so there isn't much acid in her stomach. That is probably aiding in the environment for Candida. I have had her on a probiotic, but it has been hard to take it because of scopes. I also have her on digestive enzymes, when she can actually eat.
Posted 6/5/2009 4:31 AM (GMT 0)
1) make her some yogurt smoothies!

2) Olive leaf extract is keeping candida under control for me

good luck.
Posted 6/5/2009 5:15 AM (GMT 0)
Some natural yeast fighters are Virgin Coconut Oil (believe it or not, it tastes just fine to have a spoonful of it), Grapefruit Seed Extract, Garlic Oil, Oil of Oregano, and as janicea mentioned, Olive Leaf Extract. I've read it's best to rotate whatever you use once a week so that the yeast never has time to adjust to it.

There are also some OTC products like Candidase, Candex, and Candizyme that you can look into.

Acidophulus and S. Boulardii are 2 very good probiotic strains to use. Be sure to take them two hours after any anti-fungals or antibiotics.
Posted 6/5/2009 12:42 PM (GMT 0)
sr5599, that is soooo cool that your GI is in favor of probiotics!

itainteasy, since you questioned it, I've recently read some scathing articles in the alternative community on Prevacid and sister drugs, partly for reasons you mentioned. They recommend upping the use of digestive enzymes and even a teaspoon of organic apple cider vinegar (diluted in water) a day to combat excess stomach acid. Apple cider vinegar also fights candida. Neither of these things can hurt your daughter and just might help!

Unfortunately, all those Ensure-type drinks are super loaded with sugar... If you can get her to substitute plain yogurt smoothies sweetened with honey (and I add a bit of Stevia and natural vanilla--no sugar added) it would be a great solution. Jordan Rubin in his book, "The Maker's Diet" gives a recipe for smoothies that includes putting Virgin Coconut Oil (as spookyhurst recommended) right in the blender when you make your smoothie! This not only fights candida and adds beneficial omega fats, but will also add calories, which I assume is part of your goal!

In the very beginning when my son embarked on this diet and new way of eating, I had to do a lot of convincing that there are thousands and thousands of people world-wide who follow this diet. Although he wasn't interested in actually reading the books, I showed him Rubin's book, Elaine Gottshcall's book ("Breaking the Vicious Cycle"), the large number of cook books written which are compliant with this diet, and the online forums where it is discussed. He seemed to need to know that this wasn't just some hair-brained scheme of his mom's. smilewinkgrin Imagine....!

Because my son was 15 when diagnosed, we went to our children's hospital. Just thought I'd share that our doctors were not helpful or encouraging about anything we did (diet, probiotics, etc.). We endured a lot of "poo-pooing" when asking about such things. Maybe pediatric GIs are even more conservative and "by the book" than other GIs, I dunno. I liked them all very much, but I do wish they were more forthcoming about our options.

One last thought, and sorry for rambling... If your daughter's GI did prescribe Flagyl for a C.diff infection (I would REALLY get to the bottom of this. I realize she's off Flagyl now, but C.diff can be extremely hard to eradicate and often comes back), you may want to consider adding one of the probiotics sr559 mentioned--Florastor. There are scientific studies now which prove its effectiveness against C.diff (you can google it and read up on their website). Many doctors prescribe it for their C.diff patients and tell them to take it indefinitely. It has a different strain of probiotic not found in the others--this is what makes it uniquely effective against C.diff.
Posted 6/5/2009 1:48 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks to all for the responses. I have read there are some natural ways of controlling Candida and hope to use them. Our GI doc has never mentioned that she has C. Diff. when I previously asked him. As I said, he just claimed that it is standard. We have one more dilation to do today and I am going to be aggressive in finding out the reasons behind the use of Flagyl. I have her on a 12 strain probiotic from Solaray that contains 20 billion organisms: (B. lactis, B. bifidum, B. infantis, B. longum, L. acidophilus, L. brevis, L. bulgaricus, L. paracasei, L. planatarum, L. rhamnosus, L. salivarius and Streptococcus thermophilus) Anyone use this? It is fairly new and is dairy free without prebiotics. I had given her a different one with FOS and she didn't do well with those.

EMom, I am having a difficult time getting my daughter to buy into a rigorous diet change. I think it is partly because she is not experiencing the same issues as most with Crohn's do, diarrhea. And currently she is not experiencing any pain at all. Internally she is in a flare, but she doesn't feel bad. She is a picky eater to begin with!
Posted 6/5/2009 3:08 PM (GMT 0)
I'm just curious. If she has no D, how does her flare manifest itself? Does she have C?

I think I have the exact same probiotic you have. It seems like a good one... I use it for myself and alternate it for my son with Theralac--his usual probiotic. He also eats a lot of home made yogurt.

I understand the diet change issues--especially with teens! My son was very motivated to avoid the big gun drugs and decided why not give it a try (okay...once I crammed it down his throat! smilewinkgrin ). But he also went through a period where he really didn't feel well (anemic, D, blood), so as you alluded, I'm sure that was also a big motivator. He is among the fortunate for whom the diet changes have really, really worked. I'm so very thankful...

I hope things go really well for her today!
Posted 6/5/2009 3:18 PM (GMT 0)
Her symptoms at the beginning were very similar to GERD. We had a scope done and there were two ulcers, one in her stomach and one in her duodenum. She was thought to just have h. pylori. When that came back negative, we tested for Crohn's. Her flare is in her duodenum. So her flare caused her to not empty her stomach and then she would vomit. The only symptoms she has had once diagnosed was burning like acid reflux. She hasn't had that in awhile though and she has told me she feels fine. We did find her to have some lactose intolerance along the way. Once we started her on enzymes and Lactaid milk those symptoms seem to have subsided. I do think if she took her diet seriously she would do better. I will continue to gently nudge her in that direction. This is such a rare type of Crohn's it has been difficult to find some guidance in research.

I will say that she did have D her first few days of taking Diflucan, but that has subsided.
Posted 6/5/2009 7:34 PM (GMT 0)
EMoM, it depends on WHERE the disease is located. I too started with Crohns in my stomac and duodenom mistaken as helicobacter pylori (regular stomac ulcers), but they turned out to be Crohns. My first treatment was 3 different type of antibioticum and flagyl, and they told me my stomach and duodenum ulcer would go away. But they returned, and this later on gave me this burning acid refluxed pain, somtimes the esofagus also was sore and painful when I swallowed, hard to drink even water. Later on my Crohns also was found down in the distal jejunum. I used to have D, but not as much as when having the big D when the disease is located in terminal ileum (further down) or in the colon. For me the main problem is pain and inflammation with obstructions, colic pains and a never ending vomiting (could last for 10-12 hours).-.....

itainteasy: Elaine Gottschall (the SCDs mother) is warning (sometimes)to use the bifidum bacterium....but all the other that you're mentioning is ok, and correct, the FOS has to be avoided.

I so agree with EMoM to avoid sugar, white flour and the other things she's mentioning. But it's not easy to get a teenager to try out what could be a benefit. (It isn't easy for us grown ups either)..;-)
Posted 6/6/2009 2:02 PM (GMT 0)
We had a successful dilation yesterday. This was the first time ever that her stomach was empty going into the scope so it is working. After no real answer again from the doc about Flagyl I was frustrated. However, I asked the nurse if she still had any ulcers and she said that the Flagyl had done its job and she had no ulcers. So that makes sense as to why he decided to place her on it. She still has inflammation, but she is looking much better now that her stricture has been opened.

Her and I talked about her diet and I told her I would buy a book that will help us with choices of food and variety. She is headed off to Washington DC today with her school for a week. This will be a big test to see if she can make good choices on her own and be responsible about her CD. She is usually great about her meds, but not so on food.
Posted 6/7/2009 1:04 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you inainteasy and BeeSting for that explanation! I understand now! What a difficult situation...

I'm thankful all went well at your daughter's appointment and that she was able to go on her trip! yeah Please keep us posted!
Posted 6/7/2009 8:28 PM (GMT 0)
I just wanted to add this:

sugar gives calories and weight gain, BUT it also often gives yeast/candida problems. If you're daughter get some support in buying the best virgin coconut oil there is, she may get rid of the yeast problems AND gain weight if she takes 2 tablespoons each day. The best coconut oil is has been processed within 2 hours after harvesting it, and there are a few other processes that needs to be done to use it for different issues. At the youtube you'll learn why: www.youtube.com and put coconut oil in their search box. There is a lot of videos telling us about all the fantastic health benefits it gives.

It could also be of great benefit to use a diet, there are some good diet books out there, some well known are Breaking the Vicious Cycle, by Elaine Gottschall and another is The Makers Diet, by Jordan Rubin. There's a third one that is written by Jini Palteson, I don't remember the titel, but she's a mix between the two other mentioned.

 

Posted 6/7/2009 8:35 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks again for the information. BeeSting it is nice to hear of someone who has the type of Crohn's she has because the symptoms are so different than those of others. It makes it difficult to find info. Your insight is helpful. You mentioned Jini Palteson, which is actually Jini Patel Thompson (Google helped me on this ;) ) Her book is called Listen to Your Gut. I will do some research on this because this might be something my daughter would be willing to do. I have heard about Coconut oil and it will probably be something we add since she does need to gain weight and control Candida.

EMom, as always, I appreciate hearing from a parent of a teenager.
Posted 6/19/2009 2:56 AM (GMT 0)
I appreciate hearing from others who suffer from this disease. I have had Crohn's since I was 19 yrs old- now 46. I have had several dilatations of the pyloric area. It worked for several years for me but this last time the doctor told me she didn't feel comfortable opening again I would need to see the surgeon. The area was only opened a pinhole size this last time. I did consult the surgeon and ended up having surgery on 5/6/09 on the pyloric area. It seemed to be going pretty good and I have held or drank more liquids with my meals. But now I can't really tell if it was successful. Keep your fingers crossed only time will tell.
Posted 6/19/2009 5:10 AM (GMT 0)
I can't say for sure, but it is likely that the Flagyl was being used to clear bacteria from the duodenum. Crohn's has been shown to result in antibodies to common intestinal bacteria, so I imagine that your doctor was trying to eliminate any such bacteria from the ulcerated area. It is more likely to be successful in an area like the duodenum because gut bacteria are not abundant there, so that may be why it is common practice. The ulcers are the result of the immune system reacting to the presence of whatever bacteria is causing the immune antibodies. Since the bacteria are not inside the tissues of the body (they are in the cavity of the stomach/duodenum), the response of the immune system is a general inflammatory reaction. It is a lot like an allergic response. The histamine released is the cause of the GERDs - histamine provokes stomach acid secretion and since it is continual, reflux of this excess acid is usual. It is the reverse of the old idea that stomach acid causes ulcers - in fact ulcers cause stomach acid, which probably worsens the ulcers.

In any event, it is good news that the ulcers have cleared up. The GERDs will depend on the state of her inflammation. The probiotic is possibly the best thing that you can do for her. It may be better to avoid the Bifidobacter species, since some of them have been known to cause problems. There are a couple of recent posts on different probiotics that are recommended - Culturelle and Align are both good, but try to avoid prebiotic ingredients like FOS and inulin (one common form of Culturelle has added inulin). There are formulations that don't have prebiotics, but you will have to read the labels.

You might want to try the older H2 blockers (antacids) which block histamine and don't mess up the stomach acid needed for digestion. Proton pump inhibitors like aciphex have been questioned because they lower the pH of stomach acid below the level needed for digestive enzymes to work. Stopping aciphex will likely cause rebound hyperacidity. Eating an apple is an effective way to deal with excess stomach acid and much less harmful than Tums or Rolaids and the like. It would be preferable to control gut inflammation as a means of stopping GERDs. In my case, I was able to manage GERDs by diet well before I was ever diagnosed and I attribute the mildness of my illness to diet control (currently SCD regime).
Posted 6/28/2009 2:53 AM (GMT 0)
I found a probiotic that i'm very excited about. I got an article from a health food store on a study that was done saying that the majority of probiotics, even enteric coated, don't make it to the intenstines alive...they get destroyed in the stomach acid. They measured a bunch of different kinds (w/o naming them) and only one made it to the intestines w/ something like 90% live bacteria. It had a triple coating that dissolved in layers. I did some research and it turned out to be the Acidophilus Pearls by Enzymatic Therapy. But they didn't make one w/o Bifidus in it. So i wrote them, and they said they were just releasing a new product w/o Bifidus. It's called Acidophilus Pearls YB. I also make and eat the SCD yogurt, and am planning on making my own kefir as soon as i get some granules.
I also hear that MMS is really good for Candida, but you might have a hard time getting her to take it....i hear the taste is horrible horrible horrible.
Here are a bunch of links for the SCD. I know i ran across a link like this where it was a forum for teens on the SCD....it may or may not be among these. I got this off of www.pecanbread.com -- for children on the SCD (for autism, as well as intestinal problems).
Hope this helps.

The webpage for finding out what foods are SCD legal:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/legal/legal_illegal_a-c.htm

A website dedicated to SCD recipes:
http://www.scdrecipe.com

The official SCD website:
http://breakingtheviciouscycle.info

A place to find doctors who are SCD friendly:
http://scdiet.org

A website for finding food substitutes in order to change conventional recipes into SCD legal ones:
http://www.foodsubs.com/

Daily Calorie Counts of Carbs, Fat, and Protein. Detailed Nutrition for 1,000's of foods and Diet Analysis and much more:
http://www.fitday.com

Great mass/volume converter for foods.
http://recipes.bgkulinar.net/index.php?m=utils&a=converter&type=volume2mass

Great summary of the currrent research concerning the benefits of yogurt:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/2/245

Honey and nuts fight cholesterol:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2203073.stm

A website dedicated to SCD recipes:
http://www.scdrecipe.com/cat_allrecipes.html

A website with many recipes:
http://www.scdiet.org/2recipes/indexa.html

UCLBS Recipes:
http://www.uclbs.org/recipes/

A great webpage for SCD foods:
http://www.scdiet.net/scdfood.htm

Summary of the GI pathology of children with autism.
http://www.medicalveritas.com/AKrigsman.pdf

The UK website for SCD:
http://www.scduk.co.uk/recipes.htm

Honey as a source of antioxidants in the human diet.
http://ift.confex.com/ift/2001/techprogram/paper_8860.htm

The Gottschall Autism Center partners with families to provide children and adults with optimal health interventions, support services, educational enrichment, and employment opportunities.
http://www.gottschallcenter.com/

A very interesting blog about SCD.
http://scdgirl.blogspot.com/

A page of delicious school lunch ideas for children who are advanced with SCD
http://flog.cookingforceliacscolitiscrohnsandibs.com/category/school-lunches/

The fourth version of Pecanbread.
http://pecanbread.com/p/

The second version of Pecanbread.
http://pecanbread.com/index2.html
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