Opinions and advice appreciated

getting by said...
RobLee, I know myself. I am not sad...

Karen, again, I was replying to the thread, not necessarily to you and your situation... though again, I did lead in with your quote. It seems when I try to be brief, I get misunderstood. Sorry.

It would have been better to simply edit my reply to Somegirl to say "an anti-depressant may not necessarily make you any happier." I was thinking of the guy in the other thread who got Adderal when he had the flu and it made him "happy and smiling". That's not something that SNRI's do... though admittedly I am not an authority as I've only been on Effexor for a couple of months now.

Somegirl - I'll get back to you in an hour or so, after I've had my morning coffee.

Post Edited (RobLee) : 6/24/2017 6:49:52 AM (GMT-6)

somegirl123 said...
..(those) ideations in my head are ridiculous and I don't plan on acting on them. They are intrusive thoughts, and yes, I would better off if they simply weren't there. But I don't know what to do about it. It sounds like you are telling me to just stop thinking about it, which is easier said than done.

Believe me, I know exactly how that is! In fact, that is the very reason that I am taking the particular anti-depressant that I am on, because it is supposed to be good at reducing or minimizing "unwanted thoughts". Some people refer to them as demons or 'dark places'. So if that's the problem, then an SNRI might possibly help you.

For years my wife has been telling me to just stop thinking about them. She says I need to "let go". As you know, that's easier said than done. But after just a short time on Effexor, and I've probably mentioned it here on HW in another thread, "the thoughts are all still there, they just don't bother me so much anymore".

I'm sorry for some of the gory details in my last post. I guess I wanted to remove any misconceptions about either scenario being some sort of romantic tragedy (or tragic romance?) as is sometime depicted in movies. I was not at all offended by anything you said, so you do not need to apologize. I spend a LOT of time in cancer forums and know of others who have had it a lot worse. In fact, it's good for me to get away from just reading about cancer all the time.

So back to the meds... my point about them not making you happy, what I meant was that drugs that make you less sad won't necessarily make you happy. They make you less of both. There are anti-depressants and there are stimulants, and they work differently. There is much discourse here on that recently, and I know I am not very knowledgeable on the subject myself, as I've only been on A/D's for a couple months, and only been in this forum about that long. So for those of you out there, I will admit here and now that I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING about.

Another thing I wanted to mention before this post gets too long, is that it occurred to me that maybe you might be suffering from a hormone imbalance. Again, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING about. But what you said about your loss of motivation reminded me of another post in another forum here on HW. It is about the type of chemo that I am on and a lot of other guys with the same type of cancer, called Androgen Deprivation Therapy or ADT. It is a shot that blocks hormone production in order to 'starve' the cancer cells. What he said JOKINGLY was:

PeterDisAbelard. said...
My theory about how ADT affects a man's cancer cells the same way it affects the man himself.
The cancer cells feel listless, unmotivated and slightly depressed. They say to themselves,

"Ok, I've made it through the radiation, I guess. It was tough and I am damaged but I am still here. I suppose I could mutate and replicate... but it's just not as much FUN anymore as it used to be. I mean I COULD grow -- or I could look for a change of locale and metastasize somewhere nice -- but it all sounds like a lot of work and, I mean, why BOTHER? Maybe tomorrow..."

The trick to picking the right duration of ADT is to find the time where your cancer cells have given up, but you haven't quite.

The exact post is here: www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=3867989&g=3868473#m3868473 (sorry had the wrong url previously)

I thought maybe it sounds a little like what you might be feeling. I know I spend a lot of time on the couch lately... not watching TV or anything like that, just lying down and doing nothing. I don't spend much time in bed other than sleeping, but you get the picture. There is stuff I could be doing, but just don't feel like doing it. Does that sound familiar?

Anyway, I hope some of this helps. I do not mean to minimize the significance of what you are going through. I always say "everyone you meet is fighting a battle you cannot see." It is true that in everyone's life, whatever happens to THEM is very personal and is always very serious. To others it may seem trivial... but it never is. Never.

Okay I'll end it there

Post Edited (RobLee) : 6/24/2017 8:49:10 AM (GMT-6)

Thanks RobLee, your replies are helpful.

Yes, that sounds just like me, I'm sure your wife would tell me to "let go" too! 😂 Thoughts just pop out of nowhere sometimes, but once it's there it's there, I can't unthink it. And the bad ones are harder to shake. I guess I then spend time worrying about why I think these things, which means they stay there longer...

I just think too much in general, I think. Though strangely, often when someone asks me an important question or something about myself, then my powers of thinking too much abandon me and then I can't think of anything. 😐

I think, from my time googling all this, you could be right that hormone imbalances or other deficiencies can cause depression symptoms... So that could be what has happened to me... I guess that is why it is important to see a doctor because even if it isn't depression in its own right, there could be something else to treat...

I plan to make an appointment this week. Though I also made that decision last week and it didn't happen.

As for doing nothing, that is my specialty at the moment... I do occasionally meet up with friends etc but only because I force myself to, not because I prefer that over doing nothing... I sometimes do feel a little better after visiting a friend. But I find that if I make commitments to other people then I am more likely to keep them than if I make commitments to myself. So that way, atleast I do something other than go to work and sit around, atleast once a week... Though the little stuff I get done still makes me feel like an imadequate person.

On the topic of cancer - my brother had prostate cancer a few years ago, but he is also on the autistic spectrum. It was an interesting insight into human psychology, as he wasn't bothered by his diagnosis at all. Because he's autistic, he didn't bring along with him all the connotations that society associate with the word 'cancer'. So he reacted to his diagnosis with cancer no different to how he would react to a diagnosis of bronchitis or something. His symptoms were no different for having been diagnosed, so the word made no difference to him.

Oh yeah, one more thing. Two people commented today on the way I was speaking, saying I was speaking slowly... (Two people being the total people I spoke to today.) I read that speaking slowly can also be a symptom of depression, but I didn't think that one had affected me at all... But then two people commented...

Anyway, thanks for your reply RobLee. I appreciate your thoughts.

So, you say, first, you don't even know if you're depressed.

Well, I can understand that, but I think a lot of people don't know if they have depression. I probably didn't those number of times, so I think that could be kind of common.

But if you're crying in bed some days for hours, if you're crying at work while looking at the computer, to me, that seems to be a very strong sign that you need to at least ask a doctor.

While you are divided as to whether you have this condition, it looks like your country is divided on this issue, as you don't even get to see a psychiatrist, you're assigned to a general practitioner.

But maybe if you tell him the crying parts, and any other important parts, he might have an idea of what is taking place.

I think you should go and get his opinion.

Please let us know how this is going.

Hi guys, thanks for your messages.

You'll be pleased to know that I finally made an appointment. I couldn't get an appointment until the end of the week, but Im going in on Friday morning so that is a step forward.

I would say I have had a rollar coaster of a week this week. I went from sleeping too much and not doing much, to deciding that I just needed to get out and visit people and do something and then I might feel better... which worked a little but obviously I did too much because then I just stressed myself out 100% and did not sleep last night... not even dozed off for 2 minutes. So then had to call in sick to work. So now I'm feeling pretty exhausted and run down.

TimTam - sorry, I wasn't clear - where I'm from, you have to see a GP in the first instance, but they can refer you on to a psychiatrist if they think the situation warrants it. Maybe there are psychiatrists where you can just show up and make an appointment yourself, but usually the GP sends them a letter and then they book you in I think.

RobLee - yes my brother's PCa has been resolved. As far as cancer treatments go, his was fairly straight forward - an operation and about 3 rounds of chemo. Interestingly, he actually gained weight when he was on chemo. Because of his autism, when at home he would often skip meals because he'd get so fixated on something and forget to eat. But when he was in hospital, other people fed him and kept him to a schedule, which he quite enjoyed, despite being in there for cancer!

Anyways, thanks for your messages, I'll let you know how the appointment goes on Friday.

Yea, yea, yea!

They'll want to talk about you and your problems and how they can help you.

Have you never been to a counselling session before?

Are you concerned about the therapy session?

They will most likely ask you questions and you answer. Unless there is a topic you want to talk about. It is easy... You know you need this to get better don't you? You would be surprised how much better you feel just knowing somebody cares. They want to help you.

I hope it goes well, let us know how things went.

Hugs, Karen....

Hi guys,

Thanks for your replies.

I have an appointment with a counsellor now but it's not until next week (they said it would be within 5 days, but I guess not). I figure that the idea of counselling wouldn't make me feel apprehensive if I didn't have thoughts and feelings I was uncomfortable with... so hopefully they can help me sort that out. I guess for someone who was happy and well, it would just be a regular conversation.

In the mean time I'm getting really sick of this not sleeping thing... Some mornings I'm really drowsy and struggle to get out of bed, but some nights (like last night) I don't sleep at all... I had to call in sick to work again which makes me feel like a useless person. The doctor gave me sleeping pills but I'm not allowed to take them everyday because they're addictive. Zopiclone they are called. What do other people take for sleeping problems? I know you said you take melatonin TimTam - I haven't tried that yet but might ask my doctor about it when I go back.

Somegirl

Thanks RobLee. I have slept the past two days, so that is something. Though I always wake up lots during the second part of the night so I generally get up feeling tired and disappointed.

New question... recently, I've kinda stopped crying. Like I'll feel like I wanna cry, get to the verge of tears, but no tears come. I wanna cry... crying is kinda cathartic, you know? But I just don't. It's not because I feel better. Has anyone else experienced that?

How am I feeling on the antidepressant right now?

Well I felt a little better for a couple of days last week. But since then I haven't slept (50 hours awake and counting...) so have been feeling pretty terrible. I don't feel so bad right this second... but I don't understand how that works, it seems like I should be about to collapse considering I haven't slept for so long. I am going back to the doctor tomorrow because I haven't been able to work or do anything since I haven't slept. I will take a sleeping tablet tonight so I can actually trust myself to drive my car to the doctor's... Hopefully there is something else he can give me to sleep, I will ask about melatonin.

Hi everyone.

Just thought I'd post an update in here.

So the not sleeping thing got really bad so I went back to see my doctor, who put me on a different antidepressant. Mirtazapine, which also helps you sleep. I couldn't start taking it straight away though, so he gave me a week off work (I was meant to be on night shifts all week) and I basically didn't sleep at all until I could start taking the new pills. They seem to be helping though, I have slept most nights over the past week. I have been feeling a bit happier some days too. Not today though, today I just feel like hiding. But felt almost like my normal self yesterday.

I went to see a counsellor as well, about a week or so ago. I guess bits of it were helpful. But I kind of felt like she was just giving me generic advice, that wasn't necessarily helpful for my situation. E.g. I said I hadn't been sleeping, and I think she thought I was exaggerating. She told me not to drink coffee three hours before bed, which may have been useful advice if I actually drank coffee, but I don't. But there were some bits that were useful. I have another appointment next week, so I guess I'll see how it goes.

I have been trying to do more things each day, and try to get outside for a walk every day (though the weather has been against me.)

So yeah. That's a brief overview how I've been, for those who might be interested.

I hope everyone else on here is doing well.

Somegirl