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My positive emotions are positive outlooks on life

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Posted 10/15/2018 8:10 PM (GMT 0)
Based upon my own personal experience, my thoughts and beliefs do not allow me to have a positive outlook on life and it's only my positive emotions that do. Positive emotions are very fleeting things though which makes this a problem. Also, thoughts and emotions can't be the same thing just as how thoughts and hunger can't be the same thing, how thoughts and thirst can't be the same thing, and how thoughts and physical pain can't be the same thing.

As you can see, thoughts aren't the real things and are only ideas of things. Thus, thoughts can only give me the idea of emotions, but can't be emotions in of themselves. The same idea applies to a positive outlook. Thoughts and beliefs themselves can't be a positive outlook for me since they're not a real positive outlook. What's the point in living if you don't have a positive outlook? If you can't see anything positive in your life, then there's simply no reason for living.

That is, if you can't see value in your life, then there's no reason for living. My positive emotions are the only things that allow me to see value in myself, others around me, moments, works of art, and things in my life. I cannot value things in my life as beautiful, good, or amazing through my thoughts and beliefs because, like I said, thoughts and beliefs aren't the real things. They aren't real value judgments/perceptions of value. Here's how it works.

Thought information in the brain sends a signal to the emotional area in the brain which means that thought information takes on an emotional form. Thoughts of positive things make you feel positive emotions and it's these positive emotions that allow you see things in life from a positive perspective. Thus, you truly experience a positive outlook through your positive emotions and not through your thoughts/beliefs.

Given this, I think therapists need to offer different advice because they would say to think positive during moments where you can't feel positive emotions. I personally think such advice is worthless since thoughts themselves don't give us a positive perspective on things. Lastly, thoughts of negative things make you feel negative emotions and the goal is the avoid negative emotions since they make our lives crap. They give our lives negative values such as disgust, horror, tragedy, etc.

Post Edited (SuperMarioGamer) : 10/15/2018 2:17:42 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/16/2018 2:21 PM (GMT 0)
Hi,

I think you are getting closer to describing what you want to say, well done.

I agree that being told to think positively is not helpful. It is like playing make believe. But thinking in a way that doesn't hurt, is helpful. I guess looking at things in a way that is helpful takes practice. Avoiding destructive patterns of thinking is a challenge. Habits are a challenge to break.

It is a life long journey to see things in a way that gives us good feelings.

Thanks.
Posted 10/16/2018 4:03 PM (GMT 0)
Being able to think positive takes practice, just like mindfulness and meditation. These are all helpful but they take much practice.

I know when you hear "think positive" it feels like an unrealistic goal. But it does work. If you see only negative, your whole world is negative. When you see positive, you don't notice the negative as much.

It is all work we have to do in order to feel better.
Posted 10/16/2018 4:23 PM (GMT 0)
When I talk about having a positive outlook on life, I mean a life that has value for an individual because, when a person has a positive outlook, that means things in this life have beauty and greatness from that person's perspective. I'm saying that it's our positive emotions, not our thoughts and beliefs, that give us a positive outlook on life. As I explained, thoughts and beliefs aren't the real things since they're just ideas of things. That means they can't be a real positive outlook.

Post Edited (SuperMarioGamer) : 10/16/2018 10:43:27 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/16/2018 8:48 PM (GMT 0)
Most everything is an idea at some point. So that is very real in most circumstances. I hope you have a positive out look. It really does help.
Posted 10/18/2018 1:50 AM (GMT 0)
Remember these ideals you express are yours...i agree with gettingbys last post. Ht.
Posted 10/18/2018 10:42 PM (GMT 0)
I agree that thought and emotions aren't the same thing, but which comes first?

CBT is predicated on the basis that thoughts come first and are the main, if not sole, driver of emotions, i.e. if you have a negative thought, it will lead to a negative emotion. But supposing it's the other way round and it's the subconscious emotions which drive the thoughts?

I think that's how it works for me. I feel bad all the time, so I have a continous stream of frightening and depressing thoughts. On the other hand if I think back to the Olde Days, when dinosaurs still roamed the land and I was sometimes happy, I can remember how feeling happier automatically led to happier, more optimistic thoughts. I didn't have to work hard at it or practice: as long as I was feeling happier, my thoughts were happier.

That said, I think it's possible for positive emotions to be fake as well. The most obvious example I can give is a drug-induced high - that definitely isn't real. But even without the use of mind-altering substances (legal or otherwise), it's hardly beyond the bounds of possibility that the person is deluding themselves. They want to be happy, so they try to convince themselves they are happy. There's nothing wrong with that approach. It's just one which doesn't work for me: there is no way on this earth I can persuade myself I'm happy.

I wish there was a genuine cure for depression.
Posted 10/25/2018 11:48 AM (GMT 0)
Here are some responses and replies relevant to our discussion. They are only a few in number:

Other Person's Response: You know what? I think the difference between us is that I do not see positive emotions as a fundamental requirement for my existence. Yeah, they are nice. But I do not need them to live. I can exist in the worst of hells and I can live out my purpose in life which is to help others even in the worst of hells.

I long for happiness and pleasure. But I've come to realize those things are not my reason for living. So, if they never come to me again (I've had heaven on Earth before. Perhaps this is why I'm so aware of the hell I'm in now), then I'll still be OK.

My purpose is not to be happy or to enjoy life. My purpose in life is to help others and help the world progress as a whole. Sure, a lot of the time I feel miserable because I'm being asked to do so much. I've just come to accept that this is how things are going to be for me.

My Reply: Sure, you don't need positive emotions to live. But you do need them to have positive values in your life such as beauty, greatness, and joy. A life without positive values is no way to live or be an artist. That's why misery and unhappiness is no way to live or be an artist. I'm trying to prove this to you and convince you of this.

That's why I've written all these packets. Consider it a form of proselytizing or preaching if you want. I'm also sharing my own personal experience and insights which is another reason why I've written all of this. I personally don't think it matters what you do with your life or how you think; a life without positive emotions can only amount to nothing.

Lastly, I think people who are selfless and giving are deluding themselves into believing there's more beauty to life than positive emotions. This is because they won't accept the harsh truth that positive emotions are the only way life can be beautiful and worth living. Instead, they wish to go beyond their selfish, hedonistic nature and convince themselves there's more beauty to life when there never was.

Other Person's Response: Just because I'm not a selfish piece of **** like you doesn't mean I need to be insulted and preached to!

My Reply: All I'm saying here is that I don't live my life like a slave to other people. I don't do things for the world if it made me feel unhappy or miserable. Instead, I truly pay attention to what mental state allows me to perceive beauty.

I've come to realize that mental state is clearly my positive emotions. People who live their life like slaves to others do so blindly without coming to such realizations. That's why I think selfless, giving people are blind and delusional to the fact that positive emotions are the real source of beauty in life.

Other Person's Response: I think it's a mistake to assume emotions are the source of value in life.

My Reply: I think emotions are a feeling version of value since they are feelings of beauty, greatness, horror, joy, love, hate, despair, tragedy, etc. Since they're a feeling version of value, then they're perceptions of value.

Other Person's Response: Spiritual believers would say we create our own heaven or hell through our way of thinking. Thoughts are very powerful things and I think they do create our heaven or hell here on Earth.

My Reply: It's not the thoughts themselves that do since they're just concepts or ideas. They, alone, can't make us suffer or bring us joy. It's the emotions these thoughts make us feel that create our heaven or hell here on Earth.

Positive thinking allows your brain to tap into divine consciousness and to receive it. But, like I said, there are factors that can prevent positive thoughts from allowing our brains to receive divine consciousness. Without that divine consciousness (positive emotions), your life can't be anything joyful or beautiful.

Other Person's Response: Spiritual believers would say there's the realm of the light and the realm of the dark. So, you're saying it's what emotion we feel that determines which of these mental realms we reside in?

My Reply: That's correct. Many people would assume that thinking positive is what puts us in the realm of the light and thinking negative puts us in the dark. For example, if someone has nothing but thoughts of hate, disgust, etc., then that's said to be the realm of the dark for the individual. Actually, thoughts and beliefs are merely the gateway to experiencing these realms. They, in of themselves, can't put us in these realms since they're just concepts or ideas.

If the gate is closed (that is, if your thoughts and beliefs can't make you feel emotions due to a mental illness or some other factor), then you cannot enter these realms. You would, therefore, have forbidden access to a paradise on Earth or a hell on Earth providing you can't feel negative emotions either.

Thoughts and beliefs of beautiful things give us feelings of beautiful things and thoughts of disgusting or horrible things give us feelings of horrible or disgusting things. But it's the emotions, not the thoughts and beliefs, that are the real experience of beauty, horror, and disgust. This means emotions are the real source of beauty, horror, and disgust and not our thoughts and beliefs themselves.

Post Edited (SuperMarioGamer) : 10/25/2018 8:34:24 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/25/2018 3:08 PM (GMT 0)
Lastly, I think people who are selfless and giving are deluding themselves into believing there's more beauty to life than positive emotions. This is because they won't accept the harsh truth that positive emotions are the only way life can be beautiful and worth living. Instead, they wish to go beyond their selfish, hedonistic nature and convince themselves there's more beauty to life when there never was.

This is one of your responses. I don't agree. If a person gets some pleasure out of helping someone else, this is gratification. Gratification is a good emotion. So there are no delusions in most cases. There are some people that only do things for gratification which could make them selfish. Looking for recognition. But I don't think that the average kind person is delusional.
Posted 10/25/2018 3:34 PM (GMT 0)

getting by said...
Lastly, I think people who are selfless and giving are deluding themselves into believing there's more beauty to life than positive emotions. This is because they won't accept the harsh truth that positive emotions are the only way life can be beautiful and worth living. Instead, they wish to go beyond their selfish, hedonistic nature and convince themselves there's more beauty to life when there never was.

This is one of your responses. I don't agree. If a person gets some pleasure out of helping someone else, this is gratification. Gratification is a good emotion. So there are no delusions in most cases. There are some people that only do things for gratification which could make them selfish. Looking for recognition. But I don't think that the average kind person is delusional.

You're right. Gratification is a positive emotion. But I'm talking about people who can't feel positive emotions due to brain defects or other factors such as people struggling with chronic depression. These people would be delusional to believe there's more beauty to life than positive emotions.
Posted 10/25/2018 4:31 PM (GMT 0)
I guess you are right. Positive emotions is the best that it gets. Have a good day...
Posted 10/25/2018 8:06 PM (GMT 0)

getting by said...
I guess you are right. Positive emotions is the best that it gets. Have a good day...

I sensed a bit of sarcasm and/or disappointment. I didn't intend to provoke you in any way. I am very well open minded towards the possibility that there's more beauty to life than positive emotions. It's just that I don't recall a single given moment in my life where intellect was a real source of value in my life.

My emotions have always been the only way I could want, like, hate, love, and see beauty, horror, disgust, etc. in life. People say intellect can be a real source of those things and that emotions are nothing more than just how we feel. But I'm saying it's the other way around. I'm saying intellect (thoughts and beliefs) can't be a real source of those things and it can only be our emotions which are.
Posted 10/25/2018 8:29 PM (GMT 0)
I am sorry, I didn't mean to come off as sarcastic or disappointed. I was just agreeing with that last paragraph.

I think it is all so complicated. I tend to try to look for an easy way to understand things. You think very deep. I myself try not to. Look at the obvious only. There is always something underlying I guess.

Either way, have a good one.
Posted 10/26/2018 11:51 AM (GMT 0)
Thoughts do not represent reality.
Emotions come and go like the tide, waxing and waning like the moon.

There is a limited amount of control that we have over our own journey. We can work on our thoughts, so it is something tangible to examine.
Working on our emotions is more elusive. If you want positive emotions, how can you make them appear? Usually, you think of something you enjoy, and you reach for that. Or you you examine what you feel you want or need, and you try to fill that need.

Buddhists believe suffering comes from our desires. Let go of desire and suffering ends, to put it simply.
Taoists believe that we are on a river, and fighting against the current is what causes suffering.

Luck is an interesting concept smile. The forces outside of our control could be considered luck.
And luck is often the only way we can describe our fate, given that most people try hard and do their best in this life.

Positive emotions are a result of luck, work, and also working on our thoughts.
Our thoughts can lead us to have feelings - rightly or wrongly. Examining our thoughts is useful, even if those thoughts don't reflect reality, or deliver us positive emotions. They are still important, and a part of the way we feel about life.

Positive emotions are fleeting, as you say.
When you meditate, and let your thoughts run free without judging or holding onto them, it's interesting how it makes you feel.
Thoughts are not the source of feeling well and happy, as you say, though they are part of the whole picture.
Posted 10/26/2018 5:13 PM (GMT 0)

ambling said...
Thoughts do not represent reality.
Emotions come and go like the tide, waxing and waning like the moon.

There is a limited amount of control that we have over our own journey. We can work on our thoughts, so it is something tangible to examine.
Working on our emotions is more elusive. If you want positive emotions, how can you make them appear? Usually, you think of something you enjoy, and you reach for that. Or you you examine what you feel you want or need, and you try to fill that need.

Buddhists believe suffering comes from our desires. Let go of desire and suffering ends, to put it simply.
Taoists believe that we are on a river, and fighting against the current is what causes suffering.

Luck is an interesting concept smile. The forces outside of our control could be considered luck.
And luck is often the only way we can describe our fate, given that most people try hard and do their best in this life.

Positive emotions are a result of luck, work, and also working on our thoughts.
Our thoughts can lead us to have feelings - rightly or wrongly. Examining our thoughts is useful, even if those thoughts don't reflect reality, or deliver us positive emotions. They are still important, and a part of the way we feel about life.

Positive emotions are fleeting, as you say.
When you meditate, and let your thoughts run free without judging or holding onto them, it's interesting how it makes you feel.
Thoughts are not the source of feeling well and happy, as you say, though they are part of the whole picture.

I realize positive emotions are fleeting and rely on luck. If you're someone who struggles with chronic depression, then you're unlucky since you don't have them. But, if you're someone who's happy most of the time, then you're the lucky one. But, just because it's a matter of luck doesn't mean positive emotions are trivial things and that there's more beauty to life.

I think positive emotions are the only way a person can see things as beautiful in his life since positive emotions are the only real perception of beauty. I don't think a person can perceive beauty through his thoughts and beliefs. When you can't perceive anything in your life as beautiful, good, amazing, etc. then that's no way to live or be an artist. That's why I say a life without positive emotions is no way to live or be an artist.

As I said before, having a positive perspective in life is a vital and precious mental state. Positive emotions are that mental state and, thus, they are vital and precious. Here's one more thing. When your brain doesn't get the visual signal, you can't see things. Likewise, when your brain doesn't get the emotional signal, you can't see value in things.

I could also extend upon this by saying, when your brain doesn't get the olfactory signal, you can't smell anything, when your brain doesn't get the audio signal, you can't hear anything, when your brain doesn't get the hunger or thirst signal, you can't feel hungry or thirsty. Emotional theorists claim emotions are perceptions of value.

So, you need the emotional signal to perceive value and you can't perceive value through your thoughts and beliefs just as how you can't hear anything through your thoughts and beliefs when there's no audio signal to your brain or how you can't feel hungry or thirsty through your thoughts and beliefs when your brain isn't getting the hunger or thirst signal.
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