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Posted 10/9/2005 9:59 PM (GMT 0)
Hi guys,
I am currently seeing a therapist who is using Cognitive Behavior Therapy. I've only gone 4 times and I feel worse every time I leave. I am reading a handbook and doing the exercises in it but it doesn't make me feel any better. You're supposed to tell yourself that you are worthwhile, a good person. It's so hard to do that when you feel useless and worthless and guilty about everything. My husband is very patient but I always come home from therapy complaining about these sessions. He says I'm fighting them. Am I? Does it get better? It's just so hard to fight just to be a happy, "normal" person. It just doesn't seem worth it sometimes.
Sorry for rambling on . . .
sad
Sadsunshine
Posted 10/10/2005 12:39 AM (GMT 0)
I know enough about CBT to be pretty sure that the counselor my daughter sees is doing CBT too. about the 4th session, my daughter called at 3 a.m. talking non-stop. I grabbed a pencil and wrote what she was saying for the first hour. There were 4 hundred phrases covering about 100 negatives that she discovered in those sessions. It was overkill.

She's self-centered. Period. She's with a guy who is selfish. Period. Both are very nice people--but she never could express to him what she thought or how she felt. The things he says amount to, she should be happy to do housework, while he plays with the guys in the garage. So she got mad--lots.

Her counseling worked like a funnel, with lots of incidences of her hurt and anger, all funneling down into one and only thought--that she was a horrible person--the most horrible person on the planet.

She wasn't just sad that night. She hated everything about herself, and as far as I was concerned, had been harmed by self-searches that ended with an outrageous number of negatives which ended with, "I'm a terrible person."

Here's where the story splits off.

That counselor also wanted her on drugs, which we did--only I made sure that a doctor I trusted prescribed them. Her next session after that, the counselor switched. Now she doesn't think that my daughter belongs on drugs--and she thinks that the very thing my daughter originally presented as her problem, is in fact her problem, so they should work on that.

Do I dislike CBT? No. Do I dislike the counselor my daughter is seeing? Yes. Will I interfere? No. Why not? My daughter likes the counselor.

So my answer is--trust your judgement about the counselor and watch for the one pitfall that can hurt you. That is changing to get a counselor you can bluff.

bev
Posted 10/10/2005 1:10 AM (GMT 0)
Yikes bevhea!
Your poor daughter! That doesn't really sound like the way things are going for me. I began with a psychiatrist. The meds haven't done much but I'm willing to give them a chance. The sessions with the psychologist have mostly centered on identifying negative thoughts and trying to figure why I am thinking that way and to form more positive thought patterns. It's just slow going and it feels like I'm not getting anywhere fast. My brother was killed by a drunk driver when I was 11 and he was 14, I also lost a 3 day old baby. I have some issues I need to face.
My therapist isn't making me feel bad, I make myself feel bad. It sounds as if your daughter's therapist might be moving a little fast!
Thanks for replying, thanks for your input. It helps so much to have someone to talk to.

Peace,
Sadsunshine
Posted 10/10/2005 2:46 AM (GMT 0)
I sure thought my poor daughter that night. I also knew that she had abandonment, loss, and other issues that interferred with every relationship she had. She was running the guys off. She was also choosing guys who weren't really mature. In otherwords she was setting herself up for failure.

I've waited several years for her to discover that she was causing her own problems--and she did in those first four sessions. However, instead of recognizing the pattern (which is obvious to everyone, including ex-boyfriends), she just saw a string of her reactive behaviours--and thought that she was horrible.

I think about the 8 years she wasted, because she wouldn't take ownership of her problems and get help. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I stayed stuck in a bad relationship until I was 42 (20 years; 20 years ago) before I took ownership and got help. My poor example has both hurt and helped her.

I'm sure that her therapy was exactly what you described: "identifying negative thoughts and trying to figure why I am thinking that way and to form more positive thought patterns." I'm also sure that she got stuck at the negative.

Right now she's happy, joking, and thinking clearly for the first time in years. Time will tell if counseling will teach her how to live and think positively without the drug. I wait, and I hope.

Getting better is worth any hell. Honest.

bev
Posted 10/10/2005 1:36 PM (GMT 0)
Boy do you sound like a great mom. My daughter is 23, engaged to her high school sweetheart, a boy she has been friends with since 5th grade! She graduated from college, works in D.C., knows what she wants and has her head screwed on tight. My son is 27, a little bit lost in terms of what he wants to "be when he grows up." He is very creative, has good friends so I don't worry about him too much. I am 48 and married to MY high school sweetheart. We have had ups and downs of course, a lot of them simply growing up. My daughter's wedding is expensive and stressful and I stopped teaching last year so money is tight. I also focus on the negative. No matter how many good things I am told, what I FEEL is the negative. It is a daily struggle (one that I often lose) to stay positive, to feel worthy of anyone's love. Now that I am finally taking the steps that will hopefully lead to a better place, I look forward to the day when I can say, Thanks! Yes, I did do a good job!"
Your daughter is lucky to have someone she can always come to. Both of my parents are always there for me and I try to always be there for my kids.
Thanks for keeping in touch with me and sharing your stories.
(By the way, even though I am sure this therapy thing is probably a good thing, I still start freaking out about 3 days before I go, dreading it.)
Peace friend,
Sadsunshine
Posted 10/10/2005 5:02 PM (GMT 0)
"No matter how many good things I am told, what I FEEL is the negative."

That's one of my daughter's boyfriend's complaints about her. He's baffled by it and fed up. In the past 8 years, she flaired up and quit or sabotaged 4 jobs (two in 4 years with him), just as she was about to be offered manager positions. I'm baffled too, but waiting.

Mostly I didn't feel negatives about myself--having a rotten husband made it easy to blame him. But I vividly remember the day when a friend, waved her arm, gesturing toward my yard, and said, "look what you have done." It was a gorgeous yard, created from a weed patch at a house that hadn't been lived in for 7 years. My answer was, anybody can do that.

I often talk about that conversation, because today, I know that yard was truly unique and beautiful, crafted out of my insight into what MY yard should be. Sometime after that, I did the same with my life and now I am happy. That's why getting better is worth any hell.

So when the flutters about counseling start, calm them with, my life will be truly unique and beautiful, crafted out of my own insight into me.

bev
Posted 10/10/2005 5:36 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you so much,
I will try so hard to remember your kind words. I was a 5th grade teacher for years. My kids loved me, my collegues respected me, my parents loved me. I always felt like a fake, like I didn't really belong there. It's so hard to accept a compliment, to hear someone say, "Hey! Great job!", without feeling like I was fooling everyone. I'm hoping that the day will come when I can say that yes, I was a good teacher! My kids did well on theiri tests, moved on to thrive in middle school. My head knows those things but I don't feel them yet.
Your support is invaluable. I hope one day that I will be able to return the favor.

((huge hugs))
Sadsunshine
Posted 10/10/2005 7:05 PM (GMT 0)
I hope you never have to "return the favor" (lol), but you can always pass it on.

I know what you are saying about not accepting a compliment. I also know that search for feeling what your brain knows. Today I receive lots of compliments on my website. I worked on it for a year before announcing, and it was super hard to tell people about it. That website is as much a part of me, and who I am, as my blood is.

Some of the early compliments were exhilarating. The first few complaints, knocked me down. Then I realized that righteously or not, I like what I did on my website, and it suited me as-is FOR THE TIME BEING. Since then I don't "feel" either compliments or complaints. I don't feel fake or lacking in emotions either.

Hoping to "feel" compliments is also hoping to "feel" complaints. Instead hope to freely love what you do and have done. Built your life, like I did my garden, my life, and my website--the way you want it to be and do it at your own expense, not the expense of anyone else. Comfort will follow.

bev
Posted 10/10/2005 7:30 PM (GMT 0)
You are a wise woman! I hope that one day my heart will catch up to my head. In the meantime, I hope!
What kind of a website do you have?

Peace,
Sadsunshine
Posted 10/10/2005 10:31 PM (GMT 0)
Now how should I say this, "Thank you I am a wise woman!" Wanta know what really popped into my head, "From smart aleck in youth to wise in old age. I wonder what she would think if knew more of me." Not so different, huh? But very different, because the thought is just a thought--neither painful nor self-derisive.

How do I feel? Pleased that my words are appreciated, BUT not like I "deserve" this compliment or any of the others you've given me. I worry with each word I write that I may not be clear or ????. So your feedback is security that my words aren't damaging.

My website is about fossil collecting. As I said it was so much a part of me, that I feared putting it out. Today it is listed on sites like Science Olympiad, the National Science Educator Association, and major universities. Those are all nice, because they help people find it, but it was designed for newbie collectors, students, and teachers. Many elementary teachers link to specific pages their sites. The bulk of the email and on-site posts are from collectors and students. Good or bad, those warm my heart.

bev
Posted 10/11/2005 12:53 AM (GMT 0)
Sounds like a cool website!!!
Your words are not damaging. They echo my own feelings and give me something to think about. That'a the nice thing about cyberspace, it's relatively anonymous. We only know what the other person tells us. As for me, I'm honest to a fault! What you read is what I am. I do tend to be little sarcastic, but this probably isn't the place for that!!!
It's nice to have made a connection.
I look forward to hearing from you.

Peace,
Sadsunshine cool
Posted 10/11/2005 8:02 AM (GMT 0)
When my life was hard, I slid on ice into an attorney's car, only tapping it. He looked in the rear view mirror, waved, and pulled away. The very act of not getting out to look at damage--by an attorney--started me crying. It was such a nice thing to do. Back then I was better at taking rotten things in stride, than kindnesses.

I'm a survivor, but getting here was hell. That's made a kinder, gentler person out of one who used to be a raving maniac. I plod along through work and play, and with others, I try to emulate the people who helped me. Actually, I probably know less how to describe myself now than before.

bev
Posted 10/11/2005 1:35 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Bev,
That's the thing, my life has never been really hard. I guess that's one of the things that make all this stuff so hard to understand.
I too have a hard time with people being nice to me. I believe in kindness, I know for sure that we need more of it in this world and I try to be kind. I also try to see all sides of a situation (which I'm told, can be very annoying!). BUT, wen people are kind to me, it undoes me. I fall apart. I have bever been a strong person but I sure was not this weepy mess.
You make me smile, I look forward to your messages. Thanks for keeping in touch . . .

Peace,
Robin
Posted 10/11/2005 7:52 PM (GMT 0)
I don't agree with the concept, God doesn't give you more than you can handle. I think he/she does. Whether a cup (stuffed emotions) holds 1/4c or 2c, odds are at some point in everyone's life, there will be an overflow. So you're a 1/4 cup-er and I'm a 2 cup-er. An overflow still effects both of us the same.

I can't say how I came to know when to pour something out of my cup, but I know some of the stuff that I've poured out. They were little things that I had protected diligently in the past.

One of the simpliest is not knowing right from left. I managed to keep everyone from knowing for almost 50 years by secretly clutching an imaginary pencil then processing that was right, reminding myself of the question, then answering. Today, I say give me a second, I don't know left from right.

My short term memory was damaged some years ago. People are shocked when minutes after I met them, I haven't got a clue who they are, what we talked about, or even that I've ever seen them before. Then there are the people who start with, "yesterday..." and I don't have a clue. I covered those things very well for a long time. Eventually I quit covering and just admitted, I have a swiss cheese brain, if something falls in a hole I need you to help me pull it out.

Since I'm intelligent, tough, and respected for my abilities, giving up my secrets made others more comfortable, led to more friendships, and more fun in those friendships.

The point is let go of little secrets so your cup has more room. That way the tougher problems won't be overflowing and can sit there quietly until you are ready to work on them. It's hard, until you see how good it works.

bev
Posted 10/11/2005 8:16 PM (GMT 0)
Great analogy,
I have slowly been letting people in. Interestingly enough, many of the people I have chosen to share with are suffering too.
Losing my brother at such a young age has had an enormous impact on me. My mother seems to feel that I have blocked a lot of things out. Losing my baby when he was 3 days old has also impacted me. I often feel like God HAS given me more than I can handle. But, I guess in my own disfunctunal (sp?) way, I am handling it. It just bums me out that I have to work so hard just to be a fraction as happy as some people seem to be. On the other hand, many people just looking at me would see the happy, upbeat mask that is firmly in place.

Man, what a ramble! I'm sure there's a point in there somewhere. Hope you can find it. I always look forward to hearing from you!!

Peace friend,
Robin
Posted 10/11/2005 9:42 PM (GMT 0)
Been there done that, specifically: "It just bums me out that I have to work so hard just to be a fraction as happy as some people seem to be." When I was looking for answers, like you are now, I was bummed out too. In my sadness I thought about a guy in my HS chemistry class. He was just so perfect in every respect--never had a problem in his life. Even in school, I couldn't figure out why he was blessed with so much, and me with so little. I spent hours comparing his blessed life to my disasterous childhood, adult life, and the pain I was in. I wanted to know how his life happen.

Letting people in is good. The reason you talk mainly to people who are suffering too, is probably that the others (people who haven't suffered mightly in the past) want to grab crosses and garlic, not listen. They don't have a clue about what to do with the info. So of course you don't turn to them for the big stuff.

Little secrets--like not knowing left from right or memory lapses--can be shared with the world. I think of myself as smart, so giving up those secrets that I was dumb in some ways was hard for me. I suspect everyone has that kind of secrets, things that make them feel not quite up to par in their own area of expertise. Your area may be keeping that happy, upbeat mask, making others feel good. So maybe, saying something like, "I'm in a bad mood right now. Give me a minute to collect myself" would be a place for you to start. Everyone can handle that.

Loosing your brother and baby are the big things in your cup--let's bump it to 1 1/2 cups. However, you were able to keep feelings about the first losses at bay for years and maybe the second, depending on how long ago it was. So why not now?

Well, those losses are demanding more room in your cup, and that's caused it to overflow. The obvious thing would be to begin working on the losses, and that's what people do. However, THE SMALLEST CHANGE IS THE BEST CHANGE, so in my opinion the better starting place is rooting out the small things, so you can get to an area of more comfort. Then tackle the tough stuff.

If it seems that I am skirting the losses, you judged right. I have plenty I can say about losses too. Partly for myself and partly for you I don't want to right now.

bev
Posted 10/12/2005 2:19 AM (GMT 0)
I feel like you and I should sit down and share a cup of tea . . . .
The cross and garlic made me laugh but it's so true. They don't want to "catch" whatever it is that you've got and they certainly don't want to invest the time it might take to make you feel better.
Unfortunately for me I have such low self esteem that being a teacher was rough every day. I hated to ask my collegues questions for fear they would think less of me. That's part of the focus of this CBT stuff. Trying to pinpoint the views of the world that might be a little left of center. Of course, seeing the world that way is not always a bad thing but when it affects you negatively, when you feel that you never deserve praise or love then you need to reevaluate things.

My psychiatrist called me at home today (that's a first!). He says he wants me to see an endochrinologist. I guess some of my "issues" might be glandular or hormonal. Whatever!

Bye the bye, my daughter is left handed and has great trouble telling left from right!

Take care, keep in touch,
Peace,
Robin
Posted 10/12/2005 2:36 AM (GMT 0)
Sounds like: Getting to know you, getting to know all about you. That's all I remember. Music is not my thing. Since this thread has gotten so very long, it's probably time to end it.

I'm leaving an email address in the members section for a few more days. Under "b" for beahea. It was on page 11. Grab it, if you would like to write more about any of this, or something else.

I'll still be looking here for a while, and answering some emails, so it's up to you.

bev
Posted 10/19/2005 10:45 AM (GMT 0)
Wow I have been reading your thread and see alot of similariteies to how I feel, its vry hard for me to except a complimnet, if something good happens I attribute to the grace of GOd, such as my daughter is mildly autistic, tourettes, and adhd and bipolar, and she has come 150% in the last 3 years, and everyone say what a wonderful job you have doen with her, I cannot except that compliment, sure I helped, but could nto have done it without God or the help of others. Its embarrassses me when people compliment me. I too lost my brother at a very young age he was 17 he was shizophrenic and had many issues, he ultimatly lost his life riding a motorcycle, and he had know idea how to ride a motorcycle, he crashed into a teleohone pole and died. My half sister was murdered by her cousins boyfriend. And recently my mother has died, and there is suspicios circumstance around it, her docotor has elected to lose his lisence then to release the files, but the board of examiners has finally got the files, suspecting the dr may have taken an insurance poilicy out on her, I have not heard back from them yet, I am still going thru her belongings, and finding things I didnt know existed, soem good some bad.
My son is also bipolar and adhd, he is getting better slowly with meds and therapy, but somehow I feel gulitly as if I am not doing enough. I too teach in a 3 yr prek, and feel like I am faking it too, but if the children are learning then I guess thats what counts, and they are happy. Anywas sorry to ramble, just felt like I need to vent a little to as I do not have many to share my feeling with that will not judge or be annoyed with me (husband mother is very ill, and he is woried about her, and not really wanting me to bothtering him wiht my sorrows, hdidnt come out and say that, but by his actions he has, and at one point i did tell him I feel like I have know one to share with, and you have your own problems, and he agreed with me, so thats tells me that he would prefer I dont share with him as he has enough on his plate, we have a lot medical expenses and medications, and bills, so he is finacially strapped,.and i feel like if he hadnt met me he would be fiancially strapped with kids and such, he is very good with his money, and not frivoilous, but when you dont make enoguh money to pay your childrens medical and medcations expenses, and to pay th e bills etc, its hard, as I am sure many others are goign thru the same thing). I have a clos e friend who also has a daughter with autism, and i do share with her alot, but I feel guilty, she has enough problmes of her own, but sh esays thats ok she doesnt mind. I feel sad that myhusband doesnt feel the way she does, that i cannot share with him, but i can with her. My siter has a new baby, plus anther child, adn is very busy, and is suffering her own problems and sheis far away from me, so I cant real bond with her at this time. I am very sorry for rambling I just had tell someone how I am truly feeling, and this thread seemed to exactly how I feel. thanks for listening.....
Posted 10/19/2005 1:26 PM (GMT 0)
Oh my goodsness SHeryl,
What a heavy load to carry on your shoulders. My heart goes out to you.
It's funny, when we feel the darkness closing in (today), it often helps so much to say something positive to someone else. You always have something kind and encouraging to say.
I had a long discussion which turned into an arguement with my husband last night. I know he wants to understand and I cannot make him understand. If you aren't there, you can't get it. He keeps saying there MUST be a reason, then he tries to come up with all kinds of things. It wears me out and frustrates me. I just shut down. Mentally I say, yes, you're right, whatever. Just leave me alone. I know he just wants me to feel better.
You have a strength that I wish I had. They say that God never gives you more than you can handle but boy does He test the limits sometimes. My tragedies and difficulties are nothing compared to yours.

Take good care friend, thank you for sharing . . .

Safsunshine
Posted 10/19/2005 7:48 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Sadsunshine for you words, I just need to vent somewhere, as I really have no where else to vent, our church has a nice pastor and his wife is a therapist, but I
dont want to air all my problmes with them. I pray alot, and yes I do agree God test us to our limits. Thanks again for your encouring words, my prayers are with you...Love.....Sheryl-
Posted 10/19/2005 7:49 PM (GMT 0)
Years ago a teacher in our school system was wrongly being accused of unprofessional behavior. I was surprised to learn from him that he had never told his wife. I couldn't believe he was shouldering all the burden. Well, there were plenty of supporters, but why not tell his wife?

I asked. He said I want to go home to a place that isn't touched by this--where my life is normal. I think lots of husband's want home to be normal and simply would prefer to be left out of the loop. It's selfish of them, but it also works for the person suffering to some degree. Being able (or forced to) make unilateral choices is probably a good and when things do get better, that unaware husband won't have a lag period--that is, knowing so much that he continues to look for the bad and not see the growth.

bev
Posted 10/19/2005 10:18 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you everyone for your support. I made it through my session. I still feel it was a waste of time but it was not as traumatic as it has been in the past. Mostly because he did most of the talking! Worked for me.

It is so comforting to have a place filled with such generous, giving people.

Thank you all . . .

Peace,
Robin
Posted 10/20/2005 10:35 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks Bev and Robin, yes I guess leaving husband out of loop may prive to be the best thing. We will see. I do not discuss what happens at my school with him, but its real hard to keep him out of the loops when it comes to his children and their mental and medical needs, he doesn tlike to hear about this either, thats what I find hardest of all to shoulder my self, especailly when it concerns finances, they have to have there medications. And I cannot afford this by myslef, and I know he is struggling to pay for the meds, I am searching for a supplemental ins to cover the co-pays. To the government we make to much money to qualify for any assistance, but to us we dont make enought ot cover everything, and we are not living frivoulousy, we are just getting by the best we can, finances can sure put a stress on a marriage that is already stresses. His mom is in the hospital again, please keep her in your prayers, we are really worried about her. Thanks again for listening....
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