HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Progressive or Not?

Support Forums
>
Diabetes
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
1 2
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 1/4/2006 11:51 PM (GMT 0)
I think with this even my eye doctor said that people who have diabetis who do manage it well have a very structured way of eating. I do not try to figure out how 1000 different combinatiions of food effect my blood. I am not part of the mensa society. I eat only protein from when I get up in the morning. At 4:30 PM -7PM Eat carbs, 2 hours lates I exercise on a treadmill 30 minutes walking 3.0 miles per hour. It bring my glucose down to a very safe area 113-125 Than if not hungry I eat nothing. If hungry I eat protein only This method helps me prevent the cumulative effect of carbs. It's big part of my game plan. Exercise can counter act, remedy, retify high blood sugar. Also from monitoring my weight on a beam scale which I own I know how my weight drops when not eating. Believe me if you can figure out how100 foods effect glucose you 1can figure out how so many different food affect blood sugar.,you can learn how your body burns food for energy I see how every 1/4 pound drops. I know my body.I know how much to eat. I weigh and measure everything that goes in my body. There are 3 components to this, insulin resistance, impared insulin production and sluggish metabolic rate. I believe there is a domino effect here. I'm also a big weight control person. I feel weight is the first domino that falls and all the others start falling. More insulin resistance,more med, more weight, more meds, more weight insulin, more weight,more insulin etc ,etc, etc, get the idea. Somewhere along the line you have to corelate food with insulin, and metablic rate. You have to draw the line somewhere. Even on insulin you can not let food intake run amuck, 1 short of insulin can become 4 or 5 a day. It's the whole domino effect. Pretty soon you are on the verge of diabetic complication. To me I approach this as a game. It is a game with alot at stake. Our health and quality of life. You have to know what to eat,how much to eat, when to eat, what to eat. when to exercise, how much to exercise, when to take meds. It is self help,PRACTICAL SELF HELP, THINGS THAT CAN ACTUALLY BE PUT TO USE NOT THEORY. I'm not a fly by the seat type of guy, I don't go with my gut feelling, vibes or intuition. I use all my navigating equipment,glucose monitor beam, scale, diet scale , tread mill,. Contantly navigation to stay o course I know a little also about carbs,protein, calories. glycemiic index I bring everything I can to bear upon this cronic disease

Post Edited (steven kreloff) : 1/4/2006 4:56:46 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/5/2006 12:21 AM (GMT 0)
Dear AM_BD,
so far as my diet schedule is concerned,i have 1)for breakfast,"idli's"which are a south Indian preparation made of equal amounts of carbs and protein,2)for lunch one and half cups of rice with lots of" Dal",again a pure protein preparation and 3)for Dinner,only FRUITS like,one half of papaya,one apple,one orange and one other fruit which has low glycemic index.
If i remember right,my professors used to din into our ears that"diabetes is not a disease but only a metabolic disorder,and it is the the complications arising out of poor control which are a problem and not a well controlled state per se".See how well i could repeat,my memory seems to be red hot right now,dear AM!
Eat right and stay bright is my motto,
sharer
Posted 1/5/2006 1:33 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Steven Kreloff,

I am a type 2 diabetic. I am 5'10" tall and 170 lbs at 6.2% body fat.  I don't have high blood pressure, nor do I have high cholesterol.  I DO HAVE diabetes and any day I don't take my meds my blood sugar soars to high 300's low 400's. 

So please explain how my profile fits your theory of Diabetes; particularly the weight loss and insulin use.

You know....I have nothing against people coming here and proposing a healthy life style and sharing with us what has worked for them, but my lifestyle certainly did not cause my diabetes and its definately not contributing to it.  It is true that years of abuse can lead to type 2 diabetes, but for those of us where something is DEFINATELY wrong in our endocrine systems, please don't try to tell me that my "lifestyle" or the meds I take is contributing to my disease.

There are a lot of newbies that read these boards.  Being a zealot about perceived cause and effect vs. known facts isn't going to help them and may actually do someone that needs insulin a disservice.

Lets all chill out and share what works for us and what we've seen without being dogmatic.

Thanks

scool Warren

 

Posted 1/5/2006 9:49 AM (GMT 0)

Hi Steven,

I just want to say that I'm t1 and the way I see shots of insulin is that they are there to save my life.  If you go from needing one shot a day to four or five, then that means more shots are what works for you better.  I sometimes have 6 shots a day - not because my control is poor but because I eat smaller meals spaced out.  I have been diabetic for 14 years, and have no complications (I hope I never do, but I can't bank on it).  The thing I noticed about this illness/disease/condition is that no one person follows exactly the same plan and there seems to be a lot of different causes which no-one can explain yet.  Yes, for some people they seem to have gotten this disease by not looking after themselves as well as they should have.  But there are an awful lot of us that have this (t1 and t2) through no fault of our own.  I am 5'4", about 8.5 stone (120lbs), and have nothing wrong other than elevated blood sugar levels.  I agree that we need to look after ourselves with healthy diets and excercise but the same can be said for every single person alive.  It's whatever works for each individual is the key here, and it's great that we can all support eachother.

Claire x

Posted 1/5/2006 12:08 PM (GMT 0)
Dear Everybody,

Thanks again for your replies. I really liked Sharer's perspective to look at diabetes not as a disease but rather as a disorder. It makes you feel less depressed and more hopeful. I really feel like doing some exercise now (lol)!

I think Warren has pointed out pretty astutely that there are no one-size-fits-all way of explaining diabetes. The nuances of this disorder are what is most important and must be individually understood.

On a different note, I read a rather encouraging article yesterday which mentioned that the type of diet that we usually eat, other than the omission of simple sugars, is what EVERYBODY SHOULD ideally eat. Doesn't it feel good to realize that really you are not missing out of anything, but rather others are making bad choices.

Regards,

AM_BD
Posted 1/7/2006 9:17 PM (GMT 0)
Bah! Humbug!....(seasonal of course)....carbs, proteins, sugar, calories, insulin resistance,ireversible Diabetes(a doctors wish!) ...theory....more a storey that sounds scientific..leaky blood vessels, ....I'm sorry I worked in this area of "research" and these are strictly models and hopeful explanations....when your teacher or professors teaches a specific scientific discipline they use "popular models" and theories, and assumptions. When you count your heart rate or see your skin flush, or feel nausea or slight headache after you eat too much or something you can't tolerate (maybe), we all want to explain it to reduce the fear. We use these crude portable "blood Glucose" systems and we think , ...assume, the technology is dependable....but trust no one!("trust me")...this is an approximate technology that seems to help. If you want to believe what the research folks taught your doctors and teachers and professors was the "truth"....fine! ...it makes us all sleep better, but beware!
Be sensitive to your own personal physical, emotional and sensual responses to what and how much you eat, because "trust me " the theory of Diabetes is changing as we speak,… and we've forgotten and re-invented diabetes century after century.

Trapped in this paradox of "diabetes"(or simple hyperglycemia) by definition and my experience with "research", I am forced daily now Normo-glycemic, 30% overweight(morbidly obese), professed compulsive overeater, paranoid of the "honeymoon" that I deny, to depend only on what I can personally measure(wt-input and output, blood pressure(danger!-an assault!), temperature, heart rate, waist diameter, ankle diameter-edema, time...etc..). More difficult is to keep my eyes open and keep diary/log data to understand what effect diet/food intake has had and see if I can control the important things and finally evaluate whether I feel better or worse. This is what is irreversible about Diabetes. I see many of these things that I measure progress(increase wt, resting heart rate, edema, etc) and reverse together.....so I see reversibility and there people selling books or vitamins that also see this(Its true they are not selling Px drugs or lab services or advice).
Posted 1/7/2006 11:40 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Wa5ekh,

Wa5eak said...
When you count your heart rate or see your skin flush, or feel nausea or slight headache after you eat too much or something you can't tolerate (maybe), we all want to explain it to reduce the fear. We use these crude portable "blood Glucose" systems and we think , ...assume, the technology is dependable....but trust no one!("trust me")...this is an approximate technology that seems to help. If you want to believe what the research folks taught your doctors and teachers and professors was the "truth"....fine! ...it makes us all sleep better, but beware!

I think probably the reason Diabetes got its name the "silent killer" is because YOU CAN"T FEEL what its doing to your body.  You can't feel it destroying the walls of your arteries, you can't feel it destroying your gums or the bones behind your teeth, you can't feel until its to late what its doing to your nerve tissue, and you certainly can't feel what its doing to your kidneys.

Im sorry, but the entire medical community can't be out to lunch on Diabetes.  They have been working to find a cure for this disease for years!!  Those "crude portable glucose" meters will save your life if your a type 1 and if your a type 2......TRUST ME to tell you that there is NO APPRECIABLE DIFFERENCE in the way you feel at a BS or 100 or a BS of 380.  HOWEVER, the BS of 380 is slowly killing you, silently!!!

Lets all be a little less dogmatic about how diet and exercise alone will save you and how the modern medical community doesn't know squat about diabetes.  If that were true there would be someone making a fortune selling something that actually cured people.

scool  Warren 
Posted 1/8/2006 12:16 AM (GMT 0)
Dear AM,
Warren has put things in the right perspective.Modern medical community does stumble occasionally(remember the first Glitazone introduced into the market WITH FDA APPROVAL,which later killes many diabetics due to liver side-effects;but their radar seems to be on target,as the later glitazones,Avindia for example are doing just fine!

Yes AM,variety is the spice of life and sticking to the same diet type will kill us all out of boredom(touch wood)sooner than the complications.When i mentioned my diet, it was what i usually have but by no means every time,everyday.Like high blood pressure(uncontrolled) diabetes if not under your thumb,is aSILENT KILLER!
sharer
Posted 1/8/2006 12:54 AM (GMT 0)
"I think probably the reason Diabetes got its name the "silent killer" is because YOU CAN"T FEEL what its doing to your body. You can't feel it destroying the walls of your arteries, you can't feel it destroying your gums or the bones behind your teeth, you can't feel until its to late what its doing to your nerve tissue, and you certainly can't feel what its doing to your kidneys."

Fear of the unknown ..and theory(s)...don't produce a plausible argument...in this case you only seem to proposing a new mystery. Sure they could be right based on statistical medical studies...but still only supported theory...
----------------------------------------
"I’m sorry, but the entire medical community can't be out to lunch on Diabetes. They have been working to find a cure for this disease for years!! "

And I heard doctors at a Joslin conference (and I don't think you'll have trouble finding these results everywhere).....Diabetes GROWS in the population! This has always alarmed me. This MAY suggest EXACTLY that the whole medical community may be on the wrong track. Several commercial authors(with Medical degrees) discussing Glycemic Control and Reversibility (hyperglycemic I assume) suggest careful diet and exercise solutions dating back to the 1930s and probably earlier. Type 1 seems truly irreversible, but controllable, but I'm not so sure that even the medical community believes type 2 in anything more than wt. and intake control. Read the reference on the Healingwell home page.
----------------------------------
""Those "crude portable glucose" meters will save your life if your a type 1 and if your a type 2......TRUST ME to tell you that there is NO APPRECIABLE DIFFERENCE in the way you feel at a BS or 100 or a BS of 380. HOWEVER, the BS of 380 is slowly killing you, silently!!!""

I disagree strongly! I know many folks that have tight control that occasionally binge with BGs slightly higher than normal (glucometer readings). The definitely complain of headaches, nausea, sluggishness, bloating, blurred vision,... a hangover type feeling in some cases...remember Thanksgiving Evenings?
----------------------------------
"Lets all be a little less dogmatic about how diet and exercise alone will save you and how the modern medical community doesn't know squat about diabetes. If that were true there would be someone making a fortune selling something that actually cured people."

Warren, I’m just stating an opinion, my own dogma? My observations? I’ve spent three years as type two trying to see the wisdom….and I’m very tire also of the dogma surrounding the medical communities PX approach, but recently now with shows like “Supersize Me” and even ADA changing positions on Diet and Exercise.

If we don't discuss these thing in our own Diabetic community, we don't learn and may become victims of the DOGMA, right?

(this may explain the "progressiveness" of type 2 ...the wrong approach?)
Posted 1/8/2006 4:07 AM (GMT 0)
In a nutshell this whole thing is about how to minupulate, glucose, lipids, and weight, using food medication, exercise, glycemic index, vitamins, mineral , herbs, spice and amino acids and to keep glucose, weight, and lipids in a safe area. It is a very, complex tricky think to do. You have to know how different stimui l efffect your body. The reality is your are locked in by your biochemistry. You have to have alot of self knowedge of your body. You learn from feedback and retracing your steps. I think this is a specialized skill than can only be learned through personal experienc. You don't learn how to fix a car by reading a book, and you don't learn to control diabetis by reading about it. You have to apply what you learn, and try to create optimum results. You have to be your own Doctor At times it is really mind bogelling. You have to use all equipment to navigate this, glucose monitor, weight scale, treadmill, diet scale. to keep this thing on course. Even sometimes what works 1 day does not work the next. It can get frustrating at times. In the end it's all about results. If ever the end justify the means this disease has to be the epitimy of that cliche, I think it personifies that. You have to corelate your food intake with your biochemistry. You just can't let food intake run amuck. It certainly can be done. I think alot of people do it You just have to keep your guard up and be vigilent of what you are putting in your body.. You can not afford the luxury of being in some type of mental fog. The consequences are horriffic! The only sensible opition is to try. Thowing all caution to the wind is too dangerous I believe. Look what happens to people who do It is not an accpetable risk.
Posted 1/9/2006 7:38 AM (GMT 0)
Wa5,
I'm feeling that you are a bit angry about diabetes... Diabetes isn't something you 'get'. It's something that you are born with the propensity for and often appears when your exercise level and caloric intake are out of balance. Living in a world of remote controls and elevators as well as big macs and fries certainly has something to do with this. The general population has seen an increase in diabetes because of a number of reasons. Medical advances mean that a large number of persons who used to have elevated blood sugars (and were more susceptible to disease from uncontrolled sugars) are not dying at a young age but are instead living longer and reproducing children with the disease lurking in their background waiting to emerge.

Children used to walk to school and run and play outdoors for hours (that's not always safe these days.) People used to ride horses... The act of saddling and bridling a horse, not to mention the care, cleaning and feeding of the animal probably more than made up for the calories saved by not walking... Now we get in a car and turn the key. Women used to work hard to scrub clothes and beat rugs and knead bread. Washing machines and vacuum cleaners and grocery stores changed that. Lifestyles have changed. Our bodies haven't. The regular use of blood glucose by busy muscles in every day life isn't there anymore and the availability of our food supply has increased. The modern conveniences that we have fashioned with our minds are actually giving us a false leisure that is slowly killing us... But I digress...

The progressiveness of the metabolic disorder known as diabetes means that over time the body's ability to work with a less than perfect insulin/sugar delivery system diminishes. Excessive sugars enhance athrosclerotic changes in the arteries and can cause changes (weakness or brittleness) in the makeup of the arterial walls. The kidneys don't function at peak capacity which can lead to problems with blood pressure. The eyes can become less functional (or blind) because the sugar molecules cause changes in the walls of the arteries. Nerves that don't receive their regular supply of oxygen die. Skin that gets poor circulation has difficulty maintaining its integrity. Because our bodies don't work correctly and being human, we don't always stay within rigid guidelines, our bodies wear out more quickly than normals.

I can’t change the way my body handles sugar. I can only do the best I can, follow my food/med/exercise/rest program and enjoy my life. … Enjoy life. That’s important. You only get one life and there aren’t any do-overs so it’s best to enjoy this one. That’s my philosophy. Can’t change life so I have to change the way I handle it. ... Oh, and about the mental fog thing... I have no choice. I have fibromyalgia and I live with fibrofog every day of my life. We're talking finding the mail in the freezer... leaving the water running and forgetting it... not putting the plug in the boat and sinking it... I have to live with my shortcomings but I'm not going to get angry with myself for them. I think acceptance may be the key for some... Just my 2¢.
Posted 1/9/2006 9:56 AM (GMT 0)
1)"the meek shall inhetit the earth"Graceful and meek acceptance,but alert and aggressive approach to thwart the complications of this disorder is the order of the day.

2)Let us educate ourselves and upgrade our knowledge to browbeat this "low grade inflammatory process"into submission.We all know it can be done!

3)I may feel down occassionally but never angry at my fate!To pull ourselves up by the boot-straps is the way to go.

4)Can the complications be "really,really"stopped?I think i should pose it as a forum question!It dosen't upset me to know that every year 3 to 5% of my beta cells are dying and that one day i may have to alter my lifestyle to suit an insulin regime!

4) India,my home will be the world capital of diabetes in sheer staggering numbers,both because of the bloating population but also due to increased awareness and consequent early diagnoses!

sharer
Posted 1/9/2006 10:13 AM (GMT 0)
The meek shall "inhetit",sharer is shifting gears from youth to childhood;iam lisping!Wait till i grow and see me thump my chest like kingkong and grasping at blondes.
Please laugh,as laughter's the best medicine(Reader's Digest):A policeman to a naked guy on a beach(with clothes on his shoulder)--can't you dress yourself?The naked guy's response:Gosh officer,i can't find a bush to dress behind!

sharer
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12