Vegetarian, omnivore, carnivore.

fergusc

I'm no hero- true vegetarians are 'carbivores' by definition- and if the diet is based on starch-heavy items suchs as grains, we all know the consequences.

I have considered adopting meat several times since my diagnosis- it would be a heck of a lot easier for me to get protein without worrying about carb overload, or wondering about if all the blather about the evils of soy are really true.

I don't know how the farm animals in Scotland are raised, but in America the animals are fed growth hormones, huge amounts of antibiotics, and other medications. Chickens are housed in overcrowded cages, and fed their own waste products mixed in a slurry of shredded newspaper and antibiotics. Meat inspectors are few and far between, so carcasses are rarely tested for E.coli and other contaminants. Fish ingest mercury dioxide and other water pollutants. I was part of a study that tested the milk of nursing mothers who ate fish caught in the Great Lakes ( in New York- from lake Ontario) and you wouldn't believe what we found there in large amounts. Children in the Philippines go into early puberty as a consequence of eating beef that had been fed growth hormones. And there have been cases of humans getting  'mad cow disease' from eating contaminated beef. I have toured slaughter houses and I'm sure that the average chunk of American beef is additionally laced with stress hormones- those cows know the sledge hammer is swinging down on their buddies as they wait in line. They cry out in distress. I'm not a member of PETA- I have no problem killing lab rodents or using animals for legitimate scientific research, so I'm not being an alarmist here.

As a biochemist I know that a lot of those toxins become part of the flesh of the animal, and consequently, are eaten by humans. Vegetables (with a very few exceptions) do not take up and store fertilizers, pesticides etc. Those contaminants are found on the outside of the plant, and thorough washing, peeling, and steaming eliminates the problem. Bacteria and fungi can be washed away with soap rinses. I grow and preserve a good number of my own vegetables, and I belong to an organic coop where I get boxes of veggies (that I can't or don't grow) every week during the growing season.

I inquired locally- and I couldn't find any sources of meat that I could be sure would be chemical free. I can get eggs from a nearby Amish farm- but even the meat sold to the public at the Amish markets is not antibiotic free.

Back to the liver- I agree that is it rich in nutrients- largely because its function is to strip anything useable by the body and send it back into the circulation. But it is also a collection point for toxins and I try really hard to limit my toxin ingestion.

I am glad that you thrive and have seen improved health since leaving the vegetarian lifestyle and I hope you continue to do so, but until the issues I mentioned are resolved, I'm sticking to veggies

sandy

fergusc,

Were your ears burning today? My daughter and I were talking about you and your re-entry into the world of meat-eating. She was wondering if you encountered problems digesting the meat when you reverted- and if so, how long did it take to re-adapt? We have seen reports that long-time vegetarians either severely decrease production of, or stop making the protease enzymes needed for meat digestion. There are measurable differences in the intestinal length of vegetarians versus omnivores (vegetarian intestines are longer).

She has been a vegetarian since birth. Her husband (a meat and cheese eater- as few veggies as possible and no fruit unless it's baked in a pie and covered with whipped cream) has suggested that maybe they could adopt a 'flexitarian' lifestyle- with most of the meals vegetarian, but sometimes- meatbased- so she'd at least eat vegetables cooked with meat (his mother's pot roasts), beef or chicken broth based soups and so forth.  She is really afraid to try this-she thinks she'll get sick because of the inability to digest. I'm not a good example for her- I haven't eaten meat in close to 50 years and I don't know anybody who gave up meat for any length of time and then went back to it.

We'd both appreciate if you'd share your experiences-if you'd prefer to do it outside the confines of this forum ( it's not truly diabetes-related) you can email me at [email protected] since my email here doesn't seem to work.

thanks!

sandy

Hi Sandy,

I'm a thick skinned haggis chasing Scot so my ears don't burn easily!
I was once an evangelising vegetarian too, and my previous self would be extremely uncomfortable with the idea of unvegetarianising anyone.
I'll tell you what happened to me all the same.
Around 3 years ago I was having lunch in my office when I started to feel spectacularly unwell. I assumed I'd fallen victim to some terrible food poisioning thing until the pain became unbearable. My secretary called an ambulance and I was taken to hospital. That's the last thing I can recall until I woke 3 weeks later in intensive care. I'd had a herniated small intestine, followed by hospital aquired MRSA and my wife had been asked twice to say a final goodbye to me twice before I went to surgery. A bit of a close call. I lost about 1 metre of my small intestine as a result, but have made a full recovery since.
That was the point at which I decided to do what was best for my own health, first and foremost. When I woke from the coma, I couldn't remember my childrens names, let alone my vegetarian principles. I told the dietician that I thought I was vegetarian, but that I couldn't really remember why! She brought me some tuna, and since it was my first meal in 3 weeks, I was very grateful. I was skeletally thin and unable even to walk unaided so I knew I needed protein to build some new muscle quickly. A 15 inch open wound in my abdomen also meant I was unable to exercise at all.
The only way I could build muscle and not need big big inulin doses was to eat pure protein and that's what I did. 2 months later I competed in a 10 kilometre running event, so it seemed to work. A quite traumatic time, so it's hard for me to say whether the adjustment to meat eating was difficult or not! Nevertheless, I'm not aware of eating meat ever having caused me problems - not like my last veggie meal at any rate! I adapted straight away, and completed my first marathon last year so I know I'm now fitter than ever before.
The only issue I've had with eating meat again was the psychological one. It was a big moment the first time I ate meat in 16 years, but I honestly haven't looked back since. I hope that doesn't make me sound compassionless because I have given it a great deal of thought.
If I thought I could have achieved this on a vegetarian diet, then I would have tried. I'm not saying it would have been impossible, but I'm also certain that my diet these days gives me optimum nutrition allied with very few carbohydrates. I think that's the key.

All the best,

Ferg

Your correct, metres, I should have said he was an now and omnivore. It wasn't meant as a dig. Good heavens, I learned to cook many yummy vegetarian meals to accommodate him when he came home for a visit. The funny thing was, he never reciprocated when we went to visit him...hmmm.

Sandy, You are definitely more considerate than my son was. But, that's kids! I even got tofurkey and fixed it for him at Thanksgiving. Ah, well, someday he, too, will have kids.

Honey falls off the radar completely, that's where!

Sandy,
there are no easy answers are there? 3 of my 4 children were brought up as vegetarians because we were convinced it was the healthy, moral, ethical way. Then everything changed and number 4 is a total carnivore! 2 of the others have fallen off the wagon as well now, so that leaves only my 11 year old son as the only one of us with any moral backbone! That's his informed choice and we won't try and talk him out of it because his reasoning is just as valid as ours was.
Actually, I have a vegetarian friend who did a coast to coast trip across America a couple of years ago. He stopped at a diner in Wyoming for lunch one day. He told the waitress he was a vegetarian and asked what she could recommend. She said 'Son, I recommend you get out of Wyoming!'

All the best,

fergusc

I love these stories! They are so true.

Now just try being a- non-meat,  non-corn, non-bread eating person in the midwest. I live in the middle of a former cornfield in central OHIO. Salad here means iceberg lettuce, two (plastic) tomato wedges, maybe a teaspoon of carrot shavings, and a slice of onion- smothered with dressing and topped with bacon bits.

I was recently in Kansas City for a trade show. I used to be able to order a baked potato with sour cream and cheese, onion rings, and a side salad at the steak houses or barbeque places. Now, I'm confined to the side salad, no protein whatsoever. I carry protein packets everywhere- and it's almost impossible to find unsweetened/unflavored protein. All of the flavored ones have either tons of sugar or splenda.

And yes, Fergus- it is very difficult. Even my husband, who was a great meat lover when we met and married, is ambivalent about going back to it. My daughters are split-they want me to eat it -if it improves my chances of living a longer, healthier life- but are not so inclined to eat it for themselves.

My son-in-law is constantly pointing out how his grandfather lived to be 100- Elmer would only eat meat and salads, dairy, and apples. His wife- who ate pastas, whole grains, took vitamins etc- only lived to be 83 and was fragile for about the last 15 years. He is grateful that I do not make an issue of his meal preferences.

Some of my friends now use the term land-based animals to describe beef, pork and poultry- how funny is that?

Metres- about the honey. By definition bee vomit is an animal product and vegans don't eat it, just like they don't use leather, drink milk, or eat dairy.  I was never a fan of the stuff- esp after I learned that raw honey can poison infants. So I'm guessing that honey-eating vegetarians would have to be defined like milk and egg eating vegetarians do- maybe  (honeybees (Apis mellifera))- api-vegetarians? although that might make them bee eaters...    

sandy