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Posted 10/1/2008 4:44 PM (GMT 0)
I think it's just a way to get them off the hook so to speak. I think that Jayson has gained weight and gotten lazy in every aspect with his personal life and figures that this will buy him some time to get away from the pressures of being able to perform without acting like he's having a heart attack and that he feels somewhat guilty of putting all the pressure on me to do pretty much everything involved in the sex act if we did do it. I hope he realizes before it's too late that he has made a big mistake in this.

I have to bust my ass and hurt all the time to complete tasks including sex when it happened but at least I made the effort because I love him and my family. Like today,I am taking a local bus over a mile up to just get the mail and walking back then making the rounds at 2 banks to take care of my ssi needs and my mothers. Do I want to be out walking around in the cold rain? no but it's what needs to be done same for cleaning the house but does Jay put that same effort out to take care of things involving our life and home? no.

Witholding sex due to his weight gain is just another on the list of things i can't get him to do around here with the "Um ya I'll do it later" and most times later never comes. Same for sex in the past,when i was interested at least half the time in the last year he called the shots on if it happened or not and many times it was just for me to please him and then he would stop and say oh your too sore to do anything else. There have been times when I did basically service him when I was hurting too much for full sex but I did it because I loved him and wanted to please him even if I didnt get total satisfaction for myself. I did get some satisfaction though in knowing that I had pleased him and there was a closeness in the before with snuggling and kissing. But with his attitide now when I think back I do remember times when I would have "gone all the way" despite hurting later and he stopped it after he got his needs met with the excuse of he didnt want me to hurt later. Hellooooooooo I was already hurting or would hurt later. It does take some energy and physical output to do the things that got his needs met and that was just peachy keen. And if he can read me so well then he would have seen that during some of these"things" I was uncomfortable but he never had me stop because of it. Jayson has basically turned into a very selfish man and if there isnt a turn around soon I am not sure this marriage will last.

I got enough of selfish men in my 2 past long term relasionships. Yes,there was a great deal of physical and mental abuse to go along with that selfishness and Jayson has not displayed any kind of threat to me physically but there have been a few times he did some cruel mind games but not since the beginning and part of that would seem to be payback for me egging him on and trying to push his buttons to feel out if he was going to be the same kind of man as my previous romances. We worked through those feelings though and came out fine. Marriage counceling is out because for one,we can't afford it and 2 he hates councelors and thinks most of them are full of crap. Although when I was seeing someone for PTSD he didnt add his feelings on councelors to the mix because I was doing ok and I wasnt trying to draw him into the sessions. So it's basically up to him personally to decide how important these last 8 years have been to him and if he wants to go it alone in the future because if things don't get started in the right direction I have no intention of wasting the next 10 years for him to come around. I'd rather be alone then to dishonor myself in that way again. And ya it would be a total life change since financialy I would have to give up my apartment and move in with my mother but at least I would keep my dignity. Anyways just thinking outloud I guess and have been really upset and wanted some feedback from my fibro family and a safe place to share my feelings. Thanks to you all for anything you shared or will share and hey Jev where ya at my brother? I really like reading about your feelings on the subject so I can get a man's perspective.

Soft Hug's,
Karen
Posted 10/2/2008 12:12 AM (GMT 0)

Hi Karen! Whoaaaaa.....nothing like being skewered and placed right out on the ol' open fire!!!!!(LOL) I must tread carefully here in the interest of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness of all MAN AND WOMAN-kind! Ok, here goes nothing......on the subject of excuses, laziness, pressure or guilt......men ARE every bit as capable of that as are women but the "macho" thing makes them unspeakable with everyone except maybe a trusted doctor. You don't mention his age, overall health or meds he might be taking. Is it possible that any or all of these things are affecting his libido? Maybe his weight/appearance makes him feel unattractive and lacking in confidence. Take it from someone who knows and speaks from his own unfortunate experience......any of these things can have a tremendous, devastating and lasting effect on the lovelife. Without the pilot light, the heater just will not come on automatically any more. Without the gas, the pilot light won't even light any more. All the parts are still there, they appear in good, working order and you can manually light it for a while but sometimes, no matter what you do, it wears out and you just cannot light it any more. Replacement is required if you want it to work as good as new or as it used to. Patience, love, understanding, compromise, adaptability, sacrifice and the ability to make the best of and accept "as is" will becomes paramount if you wish to keep it! As you already have so obviously shown and done for him (and I commend you completely), he must be willing to show and do for you. COMPROMISE and COMMUNICATION becomes all-important!

Being robbed of desire can turn the beautiful soul-baring act of making love into a job and a "duty" instead of a pleasure. Nothing steals intimacy any faster than that. I am not defending him or making excuses for him but until all physical and mental possibilities are explored and exhausted it would really be unfair to dismiss it outright as anything else. Also, please remember that most men have an extremely difficult time discussing and expressing feelings much less talking about "performance" problems. I'm sorry, it's just part of the way we come wired and are raised and what society, in general, still stereotypically expects from us. Some of us are just born wired differently or have been lovingly "re-wired" through the experience of time, love and family. I seem to be in the latter but that doesn't necessarily make marriage and relationships any better or easier unless BOTH are willing to give as well as receive.

I really feel for you and understand where you are, my dear......my wife is not at all pleased about what I've lost nor the immediate or long-term prospects of regaining it. Yeah, there are other ways to satisfy and please each other but substitution is hard to almost impossible for many to accept. Whether WE survive or not is unknown.....it's really so hard to give up or change one's perspective on things in life. A lot of it depends on where you place sex on the importance list of a marriage or relationship. Is it "make or break"?

Another thing.....I don't know how Jay feels about this but strong emphasis on "performance" and stamina are being crammed down out throats daily in all forms of media. Expectations and demands become easily based on what we see or hear from others so that real pleasure becomes difficult, at best, to achieve. Comparisons of "what is" versus "what should be" can ruin intimacy in a New York minute. From ads for Viagra, Cialis etc. to ads about "increasing the size of that certain male part" to ads about "pleasing her over and over, again and again" make ME feel "inadequate", "inferior" and just not good enough to what the media and society says a man SHOULD be! I can't help feeling this way, especially knowing that I can't compete against most "normal" men in the libido department. Confidence is a big part of who we are and what we do and it is so hard to rebuild it when you know you just don't possess all of the tools any more.

I've heard these very same complaints from many, many men about their partner or SO and it literally makes me cringe.....it seems to be a common thread and has since the beginning of recorded history that men are more obsessed with sex than women, it's more important to them than women and therefore, generally, they want it and need it more than women but they cannot reach a suitable compromise or happy medium to suit THEM!

I don't know Jay or how he "used to be" but time passes and we all change physically and mentally with it. None of us will EVER be the same we once were 1, 5, 10, 15 years ago and, in some cases, as we were only yesterday, for better or for worse. THIS is where all those vows uttered at your wedding ceremony clearly come into play and I truly wish you only the very best in wherever this eventually leads for you and Jay! I truly hope this has helped you in some way!

Gentlest of hugs,

John


Posted 11/8/2008 3:56 PM (GMT 0)
bump

Posted 11/9/2008 3:43 PM (GMT 0)

Thanks, Marlee, for bringing this forward. This has actually been a tough subject for me long before my official dx. I love my DH very much, and my problem isn't so much pain. It's the constant fatigue and lack of libido. It's not that I don't want to be there with him, but even when he tries, it's like my body doesn't want to work with me. Sometimes I get the feeling my DH thinks I can just flip a switch and, BOOM, I'm ready to go.

Anymore it's a lesson in frustration more than anything else. DH is overweight by about 100 lbs (although in all fairness, I am, too, by about 70 lbs), and the kind of love life we used to have is physically impossible now. So our previous attempts to get creative have actually become the norm, making things more like a chore than anything romantic. I have told him repeatedly that I don't want him feeling frustrated, and if he needs to seek an outlet elsewhere just for that, I understand. To make matters worse, he has recently started getting testosterone shots from his PCP again. That just makes things worse for me, as nowadays, when I don't feel up to it, he sulks, pouts, gets grumpy and sometimes just outright won't come near me or talk to me. The shots are supposed to level off his mood problems, and they do with everyday stresses such as work and dealing with our kids. But when it comes to the bedroom, it only seems to tick him off more now that his testosterone level is  higher and I can't keep up. Plus, it's not very romantic when I get tossed phrases like "Okay, it's time to put out" and "we've got the place to ourselves for a little while, get in the bedroom". He and I both vowed on our wedding day to love each other in sickness and in health, but I don't recall any of the vows stating that we would jump in the sack just because we have 5 minutes to spare.

I know I am a huge disappointment to him. I can't help the bad cards I was dealt. I am trying, so hard, to put as much of it behind me as I can, put on a brave face, and try to go on as if there is nothing wrong with me. There are days at work where all I want to do is hide in the bathroom and cry because the exhaustion and pain just tear me apart, but I push myself to keep going. But this is the one aspect I can't get away with by faking my way through. I know it's not fair to him to be denied something he wants so very much. But I feel it's not fair to me to continuously give him something he wants, though I am not physically up to it, just to keep him happy. Is it wrong of me to expect him to back down willingly and not act so childish when things don't go his way?

We are at a serious impasse over this, and though our 20 year relationship has pretty much always been solid, this is seriously straining the bonds. Last year I talked to my gyno about it, and she had me on estrogen/progesterone therapy, but I had to go off after 3 months because the meds made me feel so much worse, and did absolutely nothing for my libido. I have been tempted lately to buy stuff off the internet that profess to increase libido, simply because I am that beaten down by this situation. I'm darned if I do, darned if I don't.

Posted 11/9/2008 4:50 PM (GMT 0)
Shannon, some meds can cause low libido so you might want to go over them with your doc. I would also discuss it again with your gyno.

 

If you read all the post on here you know that my DH and I don't have a problem with this. But then we have no children at home anymore so we have the privacy to be intimate when we are at our highest energy level. We have not had the weight issues either so I don't know how that interferes with being intimate.

 

I think communication is very important between couples so maybe the first step is talking to your DH about your feelings and his. Problems don't get solved unless they are discussed.

 

luv and hugs

Marlee

Posted 11/10/2008 4:15 PM (GMT 0)
Shannon,

 

Even though I have never been married, or been with the same man for 20 years, your post about your husband made me feel so sad for you. sad   I've been in an abusive relationship (BTW-I'm not trying to say that you are in one, this is all just my opinion).  Anyway, I know how soul crushing it feels to be disrespected by a man.  And, again, this is only my opinion, but no one, man or woman, deserves to be treated that way. shakehead   Relationships are 50/50, and if he isn't willing to try to understand what you are going through, then maybe he doesn't deserve you.

 

Also, fibro or not, it really isn't very romantic to hear things like, "Time to put out," and "we've got 5 minutes" (BTW-5 minutes? LOL).  Maybe if he made you feel like a woman instead of a dog, things would be better.  I know that most women like to feel like they are beautiful and wanted when it comes to intimacy.

 

OK, I'm really sorry if anything I said upset you.  I think that your post just brought up some bad memories for me.  I really do hope that your husband will give you the love and respect that you deserve.  I hope you feel comfortable enough to come here and talk about whatever you need to.  And, since this is a 'PG-13' site, if you need to talk about something else, feel free to email me whenever you want.  Ask some of the ladies here.  No subject is taboo for me.  I am open and honest, and nothing can shock me. wink BTW-always remember, first and foremost...

 

Take care of YOU! :-)

Posted 11/15/2008 2:29 PM (GMT 0)
DH and I had a small discussion about this, and I explained to him that my inability to be with him is not a reflection of how I feel about him, or even for a lack of desire. I want us to have a normal love life, but he needs to understand that it may not happen the way he wants it, and though I am willing to try other approaches to make my body do what I want it to (I am going to a Pure Romance party at a friend's house in a couple of weeks), I am not going to force myself to participate in something I don't feel up to. And if he truly does love me, he won't push the issue. I know he gets frustrated, but at least he has the option to take care of the situation himself. All he has to deal with is physical frustration that he, himself, can resolve easily enough if he can't be with me. I have to deal with the mentral frustration, guilt, anger at myself, and doubts of being a good wife every time I have to turn him down. And I am finding that harder to deal with than any physical pain.
Posted 11/15/2008 3:20 PM (GMT 0)

Shannon,

I can completely understand what you are going through.  My husband and I have the same situation and we have been married for 17 years.  I think he is trying to understand but he does get impatient and then makes stupid comments that really make me mad.  The anger only makes things worse but I don't no how else to feel.  I'm not a machine that can put out whenever he "needs it".  We have made huge leaps with his understanding that I just don't feel well most of the time but he just doesn't understand that the lack of sex doesn't mean I don't love him.  Sex means love to him (stupid man)! 

I have been taking one day at a time, trying to do things that assure him I do still love him and "making love" is something I want to do but it is difficult right now.  I think this may be the true test of how much he loves me, if he learns to understand (and yes, I have to do my part to) that it's not that I don't want to but it is to much some days, then we will be fine and will acclamate to our new life together.  I know that if it were him not being able to function, I wouldn't be saying the things he does. 

Meggie

 

Posted 11/15/2008 5:55 PM (GMT 0)
i find my libido is low at times and other times off the wall..... I am not married but in a relationship.. and before we even got together i told him he that there maybe times when i can't do the things we the day before or have sex at the spur of the moment...

I was diagnosed while i was with my ex.. and told him the same thing but that wasn't good enough for him.. eventually ending in heartache for me..

but i know how it feels to be disrespected and feel anger and guilt with yourself over something you have no control over...



even though i am not up to it at times... i find other ways to satisfy the bf... such as just curling up and "petting him" or playing with him until he is satisfied... that way i am not doing something that I am not capable of doing at the time..
Posted 11/15/2008 7:09 PM (GMT 0)

OMG..I'm not alone.  I think, however, that I am the oldest person on this forum.  Both my husband and I are sixty two.  Let's put it this way...when I picked up my last prescription at the pharmacy, the assistant said the doc hadn't filled in the top of the form.  I looked at it and he hadn't checked the 'sex' box.  I took it from her and wrote 'no' next to the box.

I know my husband is disappointed at our lack of sex, but he hates to see my cry when it is over.  More pain than I can endure.  It's sad really, but that's the way it is.  We used to laugh at how it was  becoming so infrequent...holidays and his birthday.  Now..I only wish!

donna

Posted 11/15/2008 9:45 PM (GMT 0)
Carnissa, I have tried the same tactics with DH that you do with your boyfriend. I have told him repeatedly that I will not be offended if he keeps from getting frustrated without me being present, but he keeps telling me that it satisfies him to satisfy me. Well, talk about pressure! If I can't, then I can't, and it's as simple as that. His physical needs are obviously different than mine. But it makes me feel like I'm there more to boost his sexual ego for a job he's done well than to satisfy any need of his. He keeps telling me he only wants to please me. Then, if he really wants to please me, he would stop putting all this pressure and expectation on me. I, too, am not a robot, but sometimes I think that's what he wants, is some kind of Stepford wife that will gladly do whatever he wants me to do in bed, then congratulate him afterwards on how wonderful he is and how satisfied I am. (I wonder if I can market a doll like that-Stepford Shannon? lol!!)
Posted 11/16/2008 5:09 AM (GMT 0)
Okay. This makes me too wary of entering a relationship. I have been unmarried for ten years. I am in constant pain and have to take extra special care of myself. (The same goes for all of you.)

Jev had me cracking up. But I do respect his information.

I once read on a message board "No one is guaranteed sex for the entirety of theirr married life."

People become ill. I hope that folks did not marry for sex alone but, I do know many who did.

There is too much irresponsible sex portrayed in the media. In addition, everything is disposable, even spouses. I think this is sick.

To have someone love you unconditionally is a miracle, regardless of what they can do for you sexually. I know my opinion is rare but this is how I feel. If I ever enter a relationship, after my children are adults of course, I will work hard to get this point across. Other than that I will be alone, period.

I cannot live up to today's standards and why bother.

I understand the pain of feeling inadequate. Never again will I go though that in a relationship.

Love to everyone. Good spouses are hard to find. Keep the great ones and toss the rest. lol

Donnaeil
Posted 11/16/2008 1:23 PM (GMT 0)
Donnaeil, don't let something like this keep you withdrawn and afraid of a relationship. There are plenty of people out there willing to love a partner despite not being able to connect sexually.

In every other aspect of our relationship, my DH and I are great. In the earlier years, when we were both young, stupid, and both had been burned by horrible relationships, we fought a lot over nothing. But then we began to look hard at ourselves, not just each other, and ask what we were really fighting about. In the last 10 years or so of our marriage, we have had a few ruffled feathers, but always try to resolve the situation immediately. We have learned that saying "I'm sorry, I was wrong" won't make the world implode, or kill our marriage, so we never fight anymore. We disagree, and if it's a situation where we truly can't meet in the middle, we recognize that it would do more harm than good to keep after it, so it gets dropped. Period.

This part of our relationship, however, is the one situation where we can't meet in the middle, and can't just drop it. Any other subject can be talked through, but I just feel that when it comes to his bedroom needs, his brain shuts off and something else does the thinking for him. Most of the time I realize he can't really help it, his hormones are getting the best of him, just like mine do with me, except they are polar opposites of the reaction they cause. That's part of the frustrating area, in that his needs can become so overwhelming that rational thought is not an option for him, and I can't seem to break through to sensible part of his brain. It's like telling the man whose been lost in a desert with nothing to drink for a month to not drink the glass of water you just put in front of him. That physical need is going to dictate his actions. Now, my DH would never take anything by force, but in return for not willingly giving myself up, I have to put up with pouting, dirty looks, and a few barbed words tossed my way.

If I really felt our entire marriage is jeopardized by lack of sex, then we'd be in counseling right quick. I don't think one loose wall will cause our entire building to fall, since the foundation is so strong, but that one loose wall causes a lot of tension between us. And I either want the wall to come down permanently, or find a way for it to get fixed on my side.
Posted 11/17/2008 3:55 AM (GMT 0)
Hi everyone,

I'm really enjoying this topic very much because it really reflects our deepest feelings about our spouses good and bad, sad and happy.

I thought I might join Jev as being the second male's perspective on this subject. Jev I quite enjoy your comments and support here for us all and hope things will work out for you and your SO.

In my first marriage for 16 yrs I was the young one as she was 12 yrs older so Karen I can really equate to your story well. I was some what immature for yrs and as time went by I grew leaps and bounds to catch up to my SO. Near the end of our relationship at which I ended on a friendly basis I became sick for many months and was dxd with RA and was bed ridden for months as well. At this time I slept in a spare room because I was so sick and uncomfortable while sleeping and bed would be soaking from fever in the morning I thought it best and she was okay with this. I found myself wanting to be physical with my SO but the sickness was too great and consumed me. I look back on this as a time where we share very traumatic relationship disasters that can really put a spike through the heart of a serious and time investment between two people who loved and cared for each other. I feel I was the one who changed in respects and hadn't. Some good changes and some bad I see.

I could have been more thoughtful of her as she was me and as well looked at the physical part that had changed in me and adopted a way to fill her needs.

Jev I do see myself coming full circle these yrs past to present in the understanding department for my SO. I had been in a relationship for the last 5 yrs and she was recently deported back to her country. I learned through my SO that although making love was important she taught me it was way more than the bedroom activities, like a simple smile in the morning while sharing a coffee and listening to her laugh while she was chatting with her friends online. The cuddles where the best and she slept on the couch. When she wanted to spend time being physical I rarely turned her down and she understood when I did. I know she never turned me down once. When we met she used to sleep with her head on my chest and I so enjoyed it but I didn't sleep well. I think we both sacrificed in our love life. Nearing the end before her deportation we where not doing much of the physical love making and I did start to feel guilty about it but I tried to make up for it in other ways like rubbing her shoulders and giving her gentle kisses and telling her how much I loved her and appreciated everything she did for me. I do wish I had held her hands more when we walked to the coffee shop or corner store but walking was getting painful for me then and now has gotten worse.

I will write more on this subject soon but for now my body says I'm tired and need to rest.
Keep the faith and God Bless
Gary

Post Edited (profagry61) : 11/16/2008 9:03:20 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/19/2008 3:10 AM (GMT 0)
Okay folks,

I have a suggestion for some of you, Try zanadine at night. It gets rid of my night time pains and stiffness. It might help many of you become closer to your partners. Take it 2 hours before bedtime, ignore the sleepiness and you might have some fun.

Donnaeil

Oh, it takes a couple of weeks to get over the intiial sleepiness. After that the sky is the limit.
Posted 11/19/2008 3:56 AM (GMT 0)
I guess that I am really fortunate, my husband truly understands when I can't, so there is no pressure there. He always makes sure that he pleases me before himself. He went through a bad back period, so he understands my pain. But he never complains when I can't. And he never pressures me about it.

I hope that you all can work things out so that you can all enjoy your partners and you can satisfy eachother. Remember, it should go both ways.

Hugs, Karen
Posted 11/20/2008 4:00 AM (GMT 0)
she I am sorry your husband puts so much pressure on you.. I know its hard and frustrating as i had an ex that was like that..... It added so much unneeded stress and pain....

I know after being heartbroken after that relationship ending.. I made a vow to myself to be upfront with any future SO's so if things got more serious i tell them about fibro.. and how i may have all the energy in the world one day and the next day no energy what so ever.. there are times when all i want you to do is have your arms around me and caress me and others when the thought of you touching me would make me sick from the pain... i actually had a sheet of paper with all the symptoms and related illness associated with fibro. then tell them to think about it a while before making a decision.... One guy came back to me and asked me about sex.. i told him there are times when i can and times when i can't would depend on how i felt and how bad i was flaring.. in response he asked me how often i said it could range from 6 times a week to maybe not at all for a month.. he got up and walked away never heard from him again..

I feel totally blessed now with my so and hope that you all can work out the sex thing...... like i said in my previous post we have found ways to cope but the sex is not everything.. a simple handholding or having his hand on my knee while tv can be more satisfying at times....


Good luck all
Posted 11/20/2008 6:06 AM (GMT 0)
Making a list.....
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