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Advice on multi narcotics

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Posted 7/1/2011 3:45 AM (GMT 0)
So as a lot of you know I have tried just about everything non narcotic wise and the only thing that kind of helps a little is cymbalta.....But since my many symptoms and diagnosis's have started about 3 years ago this past year and 2 months has been the best out of those 3 years due to the 120 10mg roxycodone I get every month. But even from the start and I let him know this it wasnt getting rid of all the pain. There were months when I would go to see him and have to schedule my appointment a little bit earlier because I straight up told him I was in unbearable pain and sometimes 1 of these wouldn't help or through out the day I would have to take 5, 6, or sometimes even 7 of them to just get by.....My rheumatologist was very understanding though he just told me to please try my best to keep it at 4 a day. Even now I struggle with this but I have gained more control. My last appointment with him he was going to put me on nucynta a new narcotic in the ranks of hydrocone and oxycodone and still keep me on my 120 10mg roxycodones. I've read about nucynta and theres a lot of issues with stomach problems. That will not fly with me haha, I have the most horrible stomach EVER! Before I was 21 he wanted to put me on this free clinical trial of Embedda which is a new morphine product....well the rule was you had to be atleast 21....since I turned 21 He hasnt brought it back up again....

 

So my main question was I was wondering if I should ask him to try 2 Opana ER 10mg a day with my roxycodones still? Opana is just oxycodone and morphine. Also I've heard it's a great narcotic that wont really let you build a tolerance or addiction too, so that's a plus. He knows the 4 roxys a day arent cutting it and that's why he was going to put my on nucynta, well he forgot, probably for the better because of my stomach issues, but does anyone think I should suggest this to him? From what I have read about opana is great. Any thought's, ideas, concerns, questions, or suggestions?

Thanks

Posted 7/1/2011 11:50 AM (GMT 0)
Dear Ouch:) Sounds like u have a good relationship with ur Dr. I would start the conversation by asking:What do "you"
think about me trying me med u suggested b4 since I am now 21 ? Apparently, if u let them think everything is "their"
idea, it goes better 4 u. Hope u hav a blessed 4th of July seek-end! And everyone posting remember: "Our Freedom is
"not" free!!! :)
Posted 7/1/2011 1:43 PM (GMT 0)
 

This is a quote from Opana's site:

"Like other effective centrally-acting analgesics, some of the additional effects of oxymorphone can include euphoria, anxiolysis, promotion of sociability, and other similar effects that can cause psychological addiction to the drug. Also, like all other opiates, oxymorphone is physically addictive and can cause opiate withdrawal symptoms."

You are so young and I know you are in pain but I hate to see you become dependent on so many narcotic drugs when your whole life is ahead of you.  Opana is a powerful addictive drug and is used for long term, dibilitating pain with so many dangerous side effects....especially if taken with other opitates.  These mixtures can be lethal.  They also lose their effectiveness which means you have to keep upping the dosage for relief.  They can also have a rebound effect which means they can make your pain worse.

I have had fibro for over 20 years and have never taken a narcotic...and I am not trying to compare pain levels or diminish what you are feeling.  Fibro comes in flares and these episodes will pass.  It is for that reason I choose not to take pain killers that will give me widthdrawal effects during that period of time when my pain levels are tolerable and I don't need the drug.  That is just my choice and I certainly am not pushing my decision on you.  But you asked about our opinions on Opana and this is mine.  It is a 'last resort' class of drug and I perosnally would not want to hop on that band wagon just yet.

One last bit of advice:  Do your own research before taking any medication.  Many doctors only know what drug reps tell them.  They do not thoroughly check  on interactions nor do they research what other doctors my have prescribed for you.  I know this from experience.  Now, I always ask my pharmacist to see if what I am being prescribed can be taken with my other prescriptions.

Good luck on your journey and I hope you find the right combination that works for you.

Donna

Donna

 

Posted 7/1/2011 3:49 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks to you both. Yea I just read that about opana on here so I thought it was true. Thank you though I will take that into consideration. Thanks for both your help.
Posted 7/1/2011 4:13 PM (GMT 0)
I wonder, instead of the roxy, if you could use endocet. It is 10mg oxy with 325 tylenol. I find that to work better than the roxys. But maybe you can't take tylenol, some can't.

I hope that this works for you. If the opana doesn't help, which it should, ask him about oxycontin. It is continous release. I hope that you get a grip on the pain and can keep it at bay.

Best wishes OUCH9030,

Hugs, Karen
Posted 7/1/2011 4:19 PM (GMT 0)
I totally agree with Donna on this one.  Plus, you are trying to be pain free.  We all would like that but that isn't what happens with fibro.  I've had fibro for 24 years and have not been pain free.  I also have not taken narcotics.  I do have Vicodin in my medicine cabinet as my security blanket but never took one because fibro pain waxes and wanes. 

 

Instead of taking all these meds, I would zero in on finding out why you are having this much pain.  THAT'S the important thing.  You might need to get a second opinion.  I know your doctor is giving you a lot of meds but that isn't always good.  You said that you were prescribed one tablet of a drug but you ended up taking 5,6, and 7 instead!  That is dangerous plus it can be a sign you are getting addicted to them.  You absolutely have to take your medication as prescribed.  That is so important.  

 

These medications can cause a lot of symptoms, too.  Taking as much as you have during a day can actually kill you...it slows down your breathing.

 

http://www.drugs.com/pro/roxicodone.html

  

So be careful.  Try alternative things.  Honestly, they are better for you in the long run.  Find out what is causing all of this extreme pain, too.  You are far too young to just be given pain meds and sent home.  If you have a teaching hospital remotely close to you, you should mosey over there and be checked out.  In Fibro 101 there is a list of university and teaching hospitals and I just bet there is one near you.  I wish you the best of luck.

 

Sherrine

 

   

Posted 7/1/2011 4:39 PM (GMT 0)
I looked up Opana, and I see it is oxymorphone, which is very strong. This should help you a lot. I have taken hydromorphone which is dilaudid. It is very good for pain. It is true though that these meds are at the top of the list on the pain med scale, so do take as directed. They should help you with your pain.

I know that there are some of us who are against narcotics. But I think if they work for the pain, more power to you. I only take norco at this time. It is at the very low end of the pain med scale, but that gives me plenty of room to move up if I need to. They are all addicting, yes, and used for long term pain, well to me fibromyalgia is long term. Like the rest of your life. I hope these meds help you. Please do let us know.

We have to remember that some of us need meds to keep the pain at a minimum. The other members are right in saying you may never be pain free. But if you can get it down to a minimum, you are doing good. Try to distract yourself from the pain. Try not to think about it.

I hope that you are having a good day.

take care,

Hugs, Karen
Posted 7/1/2011 4:39 PM (GMT 0)
I am just giving advice. I have had fm over 20 yrs. I started on heavy narcotics and became very addicted. I found out the hard way that I have a addictive personality through drug rehab. Yes it sucks so bad that I don't take percocet anymore. They tought me other ways to cope with the pain. I am like Sherri, my pain is 24 hrs. I have good and bad days. I have friends that can hold a bottle of percocet for over a month, not me. I just being honest. I hope you can find what works for you. Good luck!
Posted 7/1/2011 4:44 PM (GMT 0)
I think a lot of the addiction comes from within us. Some of us have addictive personalities. But I think if a person is going to be in pain for the rest of their lives, it is worth taking a chance to see if you can get any relief. Taking drugs responsibly is the key to this. Not taking more than you need. I feel bad for people with the addictive tendancies. I guess we all have our own ways of coping.

I hope that all of you are having a pain fee day, yea right? As close as we can get anyway.

Hugs, Karen
Posted 7/1/2011 5:33 PM (GMT 0)
I became addicted to a benzo and didn't even know it until I stopped taking it.  It did nothing for my RLS...in fact, made it worse.  I never took the full dose...took it maybe three times a week.  I wouldn't wish this kind of withdrawal hell on anyone.  Some people can start and stop drugs with no problem...some  can't.  In any event you can become blindsided and never know what hit you...and it is not a pretty sight!  We all have different opinions and they are all welcome on this forum.  That's what makes it so great.  None of us expect fellow members to suffer needlessly.  We just offer our advice from experience and that's all we can do.

Donna

Posted 7/1/2011 5:47 PM (GMT 0)

Not everyone that gets addicted to things has an addictive personality.  I've been addicted to cigarettes but managed to quit.  I've been addicted to amphetamines given to me under a doctor's care and I got off that too.  This wasn't easy but necessary.  So, when it comes to narcotics, I don't want to go there.  I have seen lives destroyed because of overuse of medication.  It's serious.

I'm not against pain medication if all else fails.  But it really has to be monitored.  Ouch, you are so young.  I know you turned 21 but that still is very young.  You have  your whole life ahead of you.  You really need to get to the bottom of what is causing your pain.  Pain like you are describing doesn't  just happen.  Look at the pain charts on Fibro 101.  Make sure  you are describing your pain accurately.  

We had a thread several weeks ago and people were describing how they had become addicted to medication and the horrendous time they had getting off it.  These same people still have pain but are learning how to manage it without all they were taking in the past.  As AK Angel said, she didn't know and I'm sure didn't even imagine that she would ever become addicted to something!  It's horrible.

I still highly recommend that you find a teaching hospital and get a second opinion.  That's your best bet at getting your pain under control.  Switching meds or taking more meds isn't the answer.  Finding out what is causing this terrible pain is the answer.

Sherrine   

Posted 7/1/2011 7:36 PM (GMT 0)
Guess I'll add my two cents worth. I too have had FM for over 20 years, 22+ to be exact. I've been going to the same group of rheumy's during that time and they are the ONLY ones prescribing my drugs, which ranged from SSRI's (antidepressants), to sleeping pills, to muscle relaxers, neuropathy meds, and narcotics, oh yeah, and antianxiety. Recently, well last year, I weaned off the SSRI and then got on another one, all through the Dr's care. Then they doubled the dose of the new one because my depression was getting much worse. I was actually having suicidal thoughts. It was then that I began seeing a psychotherapist who has now helped me to wean off of EIGHT medications. Bottom line, when I went back to the rheumy and mentioned all this, I was told "well of course your depression worsened, narcotics are DEPRESSANTS, sleeping meds are DEPRESSANTS, antianxiety are DEPRESSANTS...hello??? Are we supposed to just know this? How come no one said anything to me when THE DOCTORS, the same one that was telling me this, were prescribing it to me? Was I addicted? I don't think so. I had no trouble getting off the meds but it just upsets me so much that I had to go through all of that. I think we are just trying to save you the emotional pain.
I wish you well,
Miriam
Posted 7/1/2011 8:20 PM (GMT 0)
Sherrine,

I said "some" of us have addictive personalities, not all...

I don't think it is wise for a 21 year old to start out on such highly addictive narcotics either. But we don't know how bad her pain is.

Hugs, Karen
Posted 7/1/2011 9:00 PM (GMT 0)
Dear OUCH

I don't want to "preach" at you. From experience, tho I can tell you layering narcotics can be big trouble-at least it was for me. And, you are SO young. Docs sometimes will give you several drugs, wanting to help but your tolerance to yr reg med seems to be rising already. Do you really want to add another chemical to the mix?

I never thought I would get off narcotics for fibro and I'm not advising you to do that...but there is life after morphine.

My hubby and I went to the beach and sat in the shade for 4 hours yesterday...JUST SAT...and I can barely move today. I"d take IV Demerol if someone offered it_LOL!!

It is always good to talk about alternative meds w/ doc...what works for one may  not work for the other. Whatever happens, I hope you find relief OUCH

Take care

Maggie

 

Posted 7/1/2011 10:19 PM (GMT 0)
Karen, I know what you were saying.  I was saying that people without addictive personalities can get addicted to narcotics, too. 

 

I know we don't know how much Ouch's pain is.  If it is as great as he is saying, I wonder if there isn't something else going on...that or he has a couple of things going on.  This is why I highly suggest that he get a second opinion, hopefully at a teaching hospital where they are better informed.  I would love to see him up and about and off much of what he is taking...if possible. 

Sherrine 

Posted 7/1/2011 10:36 PM (GMT 0)
I agree, there could be some underlying condition going on that is causing the pain. And finding out what it is would be the best thing to do.

Hugs, Karen
Posted 7/1/2011 11:59 PM (GMT 0)
Yes check them all out.
Learning about what you put in your body can only help.
I also find that asking your pharmacist (sp,) helps alot.
Who better to ask then someone who is in to drugs. lol
Also if you go to the same one for all your drugs and it is computerized, they will usually flag if there's a problem about mixing them.
Posted 7/2/2011 3:21 AM (GMT 0)
To everyone who has posted on this thread thankyou, but please listen. Trust me I'm well aware I am only 21, but I have been suffering with FMS for 3 years and been on narcotics for 3 years. I have never been addicted, dependent you can definately say, I can not work without them. FMS was my first diagnosis....I've posted this plenty of times I don't know if maybe everyones just missed it or what but I have been diagnosed with CFS, Osteoarthritis, myalgias and possibly degenerative bone disease, and the doctors are sure that the long term prednisone I was on as a kid thinned my bones. I have a horrible metabolism problem which my rheumatologist wishes he could understand....I fluctuate from 140 to 160....each time I see my rheumatologist I am 5 pounds give or take differant from the last time. Also I have extremely high blood pressure which is from my pain. I check my B.P. all the time and when I am in less pain it is down. More pain it is way higher. Sherrine I too used to be prescribed 90 20 mg adderal pills for add about 3 years ago but now know that is is fibro fog without a doubt. They helped so much with my concentration, my memory, and a lot of other things; I took myself off them because I felt it made my pain worse......through this forum I have learned 3 other things that really could fit, But that's the thing about the internet I don't like, you can trick yourself into diagnosing yourself. But I am going to point them out to my rheumatologist my next vissit.....polymytossis (why I think this is possible is because I have had tinea versicolor for the past 3 years when all this started. IP (the reason I think intractible pain is because high blood pressure is a key symptom and from the very start the "high" levels of narcotics you all say I shouldnt be on from the very start they were not fully effective at all, but try being 21 and telling that to your rheumatologist. and finally sleep apnea which could very well be part of my problem that fuels the fms.

When I saw the P.A. a few days ago he agreed I need a sleep study, so I will talk to my rheumatologist about that.

Sherrine, what you were saying about me taking 5, 6, and sometimes 7 is not from some form of addicition. Like I said from the very begining I even told my rheumatologist I didn't feel like they were helping me enough. There have been some months that have been better than others and I am honest with him and tell my rheumatologist if there has been days where I have had to take more than 4. Sometimes my pain is so excruciating I have to take 2 at a time. I do not abuse my medication, that would be dumb and only probably lead to an addiciton, I use it to work and to not be in pain that frankly my body handles so poorly....Besides all that, Do you really think I like waking up every morning hunched over the toilet puking up opiate juice....hell no. I detest it, but it in my eyes is fully neccessary if it means I don't have to be in my usual state of pain. Like some of you, my pain is 24 hours a day, it never stops, it follows me like a shadow and I am sick of it. So honestly I am going to try the opana 10mg ER, because from what I've heard they really help. Who knows maybe that would allow me to cut back taking the roxys?
Posted 7/2/2011 3:45 AM (GMT 0)
I have a question, ok here goes Has anyone told you that by taking drugs like the pain killers you are using can and will make the pain of Fibro worse.

I know when I went off them 7 years ago after being on huge amounts for pain my pain halved.

Ican tell you the new GP I was seeing had to do a lot of taking and explaining to get me to wean off them. Yes I still take Tramadol now and then.

I was really bad with pain never left the house, could not walk get out of a chair. the clothes I wore had me in tears. Shoes well we will not talk about them.

But now I volenteer a few times a month [where I am writing this] enjoy shopping for clothes etc.

For me my over all health improved no end once I dropped the morphine bassed meds.

Now I can enjoy life again as long as I take things easy and don't over do it.

It took me a year to get clean of the drugs with the doc's help so I did not go cold turkey, but it was still hard.

To this day I refuse any heavy drugs offered to me.

Kathy

Posted 7/2/2011 4:41 AM (GMT 0)
Dear kathydownunder,

Of course I have been told this numerous times and also that the more opiates you take the more opiate receptors you build in your body so in other words you can experience more pain from opiates.....however did you know that both of those statements are not fully correct? Everyone is different and some people with fms and other things such as I.P. these issues you stated are irrelivent. I've had fibro along with everything else i've stated for 3 years and been on from what everyone on here says "heavy narcotics" I have even throughout the years not taken any for a few days just to see what would happen....nothing at all, of course I was in pain and wanted to take some but it wasn't like I was "feening" them.....I can't help the fact I'm 21 and I feel like I'm 60, If it makes you all feel any better, I have really tried hard to deal with my pain more mentally, but it's so hard...I personally think most of my problems really came from the long term use of prednisone when I was a kid and all the different huge needles I remember so vividly beeing stuck with (I'm assuming they were also steroids of some sort) I've had sleep and depression problems my whole life, but the past 3 years is when the pain started kicking in
Posted 7/2/2011 1:08 PM (GMT 0)
Dear Ouch9030
Have you considered seeing a pain management doctor? I say that because they are specialists in not only managing pain, but the majority of them are anesthesiologists who are extremely comfortable and much more knowledgeable of the use of narcotics than rheumy's or any other doctor. In addition to pain meds, they use trigger point injections, epidurals and another treatment I cannot think of right now, facet joint injection? I think that is it. These are used along with pain meds, but would help to lessen the amount taken.
As I mentioned, I was diagnosed over 22 years ago, and I've just now begun seeing a pain mgmnt doctor. I did see one initially but soon switched over to a rheumy. I'm not so sure that is the doc to see for FM...and yes, I know most here do see rheumy's, but I'm beginning to believe that FM should be managed by someone who specializes in PAIN...just my opinion,
Miriam
Posted 7/2/2011 5:04 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Ouch,

I was sure i commented on your post but my bad guess I had a foggy moment. I have read a few of your posts and you sound like you are at the end of your tether and just want something to give you some relief.

I see a chronic pain specialist and he never prescribes anything nor do any of the other doctors, they send letters to my family dr and he prescribes all my meds. That way there is no confusion which dr gave me what. However the chronic pain dr knows what meds to prescribe as that's his top priority getting my pain level under control. There are a few "heavy narcotics" that do not effect a persons GI track, and I am currently on one called targin that gives great long acting pain relief and then oxycodene for break through.

I will be seeing my family dr on Monday because the oxy's just don't seem to give me the relief unless I cut them up so will address this issue then. I hope you are able to find something that does work for you soon.

I am also on cymbalta and a few other meds as the OTC stuff just does not help me at all. I'm sure you already do this but the granny in me insists I say please use extreme caution with any medications you are on and if its something new do the research.
Posted 7/2/2011 5:35 PM (GMT 0)
I truly believe that we all are different, have differen't pain and have different methods of relieving the pain. We don't know what the next person is going through. I guess we all have different opinions, but what works for one, might not work for another. So we should respect what the other does for pain relief.

Hugs, Karen
Posted 7/2/2011 7:04 PM (GMT 0)
His last sentence in his post..."does anyone have thoughts, concerns, questions or suggestions."  We have given him advice based on our own experiences.  Obviously he is going to take Opana anyway...that's his decision.  No one on this forum wants anyone to suffer with endless pain...just tried to give him alternatives and what we all have taken that helps.  Some of us have seen high powered meds kick us in the teeth...he asked and we told him.  It has nothing to do with respect...it has to do with trying to make his choices safe yet effective ones.  I think that those of us who have been through the nightmare of withdrawals and seen family members suffer from taking prescribed narcotics have a different perspective.  My brother died from combining opiates at a very early age, hence my opinions are probably somewhat jaded.  I also went into anaphyactic shock from a shot of demerol after surgery because I had taken so many narcotics before the operation they could not kill the pain.  Getting jump started twice with the paddles is not fun...

Donna

Post Edited (vestabula) : 7/2/2011 1:16:29 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/2/2011 7:38 PM (GMT 0)
I agree with Donna...just trying to help. It took me over 22 years to figure it all out. I wish I knew someone back then that would have sat me down and explained all of the side effects and what could happen. I still live with pain, chronic daily pain. I still take narcotics to control it but I am aware that I will NEVER be able to completely get rid of the pain either. That is something, I believe, we all have to come to terms with. Maybe that is where psychotherapy comes in? I really don't know. I know some don't believe in it and that's ok too...
Miriam
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