HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Fibro caused in part by frozen fears?

Support Forums
>
Fibromyalgia
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 4/2/2013 12:47 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Everyone,
My neuromuscular massage therapist told me recently that she believes fibromyalgia is caused by frozen fears. I have had and probably still have plenty of fears. Though I do try to remain positive and thank the Lord at all times for how I've come through and how much I have.

I did a little digging and here's a website I came up with:



I'd be interested to know what some of you think. Thanks!

I took out the link because she was selling courses.

Sherrine

Post Edited By Moderator (Sherrine) : 4/2/2013 7:45:00 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/2/2013 5:07 PM (GMT 0)
AM,

I'd guess that it could definitely be a contributing factor. Who knows, maybe in some people it could even be enough to start the inbalances in brain chemicals and CNS disfunction that they're currently attributing Fibro to.

In any case, the more at peace we can be, the more we're helping ourselves. Fear=tension, and that's definitely not our friend.

Debbie
Posted 4/2/2013 5:40 PM (GMT 0)
I definitely do not believe fibro is caused by fear...any type of fear. If that were the case nearly everyone in the world would have fibro because fear is an emotion all people experience many times in their lives.

Everything seems to be pointing to a neurological problem that is causing fibro. We've discussed this many times on this forum. It does affect our nerves it seems. Fear can make you nervous but doesn't directly cause pain. Fear causes stress which can cause more pain in fibro patients but it does not cause fibro, in my humble opinion.

Fear, aka anxiety, can cause a myriad of symptoms...symptoms that are similar to fibro symptoms....but not the symptoms that doctors use to diagnose fibro, like pain in all four quandrants of your body or all the tender points we have.

Anxiety/fear can be controlled once you learn to recognize it for what it is. I suffered from anxiety very badly thirty years ago, was on Valium for it. And it's quite debilitating. Once I accepted that I didn't really have anything to be that afraid of, I learned to relax, do deep breathing, etc. I haven't taken Valium for nearly thirty years and I don't have fear either. I've had it try to crop up when some different symptoms crop up, but i keep a cool head and can keep the anxiety away. The scripture in my signature helped me a lot over the years with all of my illnesses. That's why I put it in my signature.

So, I'm sticking with what the doctors who have been studying fibro all of their lives are starting to think is causing fibro. There are several excellent links in Fibro 101 that explain what these doctors are thinking about the cause of this illness.

Sherrine
Posted 4/2/2013 8:48 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks, Debbie and Sherrine.

Debbie, what is CNS dysfunction? After all the different types of meds I've been tried on, I always wonder if they could have contributed to my anxiety and more than likely my imbalances in my brain chemicals.

That's wonderful, Sherrine, that you've learned how to manage your anxiety so well. I'll have to take another look at Fibro 101. Thanks again.
Posted 4/2/2013 10:57 PM (GMT 0)
I was just referring in a general way to the doctors' belief that we experience pain amplification due to abnormal sensory processing in the CNS. Something is "off."

Some of our meds can be pretty heavy-duty, and I wonder the same thing sometimes. My original pain started, though, without any drugs to factor in....

Debbie
Posted 4/3/2013 12:41 AM (GMT 0)
AMF, medications can do some pretty weird and bad things along with doing good things.  Because I don't suffer from depression like many with fibro do, I would not take Lyrica, Savella, or Cymbalta.  I didn't want to mess with my brain chemicals.  I don't know if that's the correct thing to do but it feels right for me so that's what I've done.  So, possibly this could be part of your problem, too. 

 

But I still don't think that would cause fear.  It could cause depression perhaps.  Fear is an emotion so I don't think it is caused by a problems with brain chemicals.  I'm not a doctor but it seem logical to me.

 

Sherrine

Posted 4/3/2013 4:08 AM (GMT 0)
I suffered from depression/anxiety for many, many years. I was on an antidepressant for 22 years and finally with the help of a psychotherapist, weaned off of it about three years' ago. Then I stopped seeing her, thinking she gave me the tools I needed to deal with depression and I did well for a year. Then I lost a good friend to breast cancer, and then five other people I knew passed away and I think all this triggered the depression to begin again and it was out of control. So I went to see a psychiatrist who put me on Cymbalta which I began at the lowest dose and titrated up to 60 mg and got the worst case of diarrhea that well, I will spare you the details. Let's just say I couldn't leave the house. Worse yet, my depression worsened. She kept telling me to stay with it, then had me take half in the am and half in the pm and nothing made it better, so she switched me to Pristiq stating that in no way would this happen again...well it happened again, both diarrhea and severe depression. I went back to my psychotherapist and weaned off the antidepressants. It's now been three months that I have been off of them and I have not had ONE bout of depression. Within that time, my nephew passed away, only 45 years' old. Of course I grieved, but I didn't fall back into that black hole. I have been able to manage it with therapy along with positive affirmations, which I do daily, sometimes several times a day. I have learned to let the past go. I realize I am in control of my life. What happened in my past happened and I suffered greatly from it, as a child as well as an adult, but I now realize I have the power to fix myself, to let the past go and move on. I still am struggling with anxiety and still need to use meds for that but I know in time I will get a handle on that too and get rid of the meds. I am convinced that we have the power to heal ourselves. I am certainly not there yet. I still deal with chronic pain, in fact, I just went for an epidural injection today, but I am managing it all. I am not allowing it to take over my life. Chronic pain is a part of my life, but it doesn't stop me from living my life. I won't let it any longer.

I hope this helps someone else. My only regret is that I didn't realize I had the power to fix myself when I was younger.

hugs

Miriam

Posted 4/3/2013 9:47 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks for your reply and your story, MT. It's wonderful that you've empowered yourself and you're doing well.

I was on Cymbalta for a time too. I didn't think I had depression but my doctor wanted me to stay on it for a time to see if it helped the pain. It didn't. It only made me feel numb.

It's fantastic that we have a place like this to talk. Yes, I would have loved to have known more years ago.
Posted 4/3/2013 6:38 PM (GMT 0)
I found a chiro neurologist who believes that Fibro is a neurological condition. Also, a specialist in Chicago believes that Fibro is inprinted in our muscles and tendons d/t a traumatic experience in our lives such as PTSD, any type of abuse etc...and a viral illness may also have preceded it.

Interesting, because I was emotionally and verbally abused by my mother as a young girl for six years and I was diagnosed with Epstein Barr Virus in my early twenties.
Posted 4/3/2013 7:05 PM (GMT 0)
I was never, ever abused and I had an idyllic childhood but yet I have fibro. I do believe it is neurological as the doctors are saying. The doctor in Michigan you were mentioning was probably Dr. Clauw. The first two links on Fibro 101 were written by him.

Sherrine
Posted 4/5/2013 8:23 AM (GMT 0)
I'll admit that I don't know as much about Fibro as many of you, but I'd support the idea that it is neurological.

When I introduced myself, I said that my primary issue was Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS/RSD) - which occurs when the nervous system stops recognising pain and 'noxious' stimuli in a normal manner. CRPS causes really severe neuropathic pain - shooting/burning/electric pain... also muscle and bone pain.

My Fibro was diagnosed subsequent to the CRPS, and there are a lot of other CRPS-ers who go on to develop Fibro - which makes you think there must be something in the processes that are linked. Will have to go and do some reading :)

Just my rather random 2 cents...

Laura
Posted 4/5/2013 8:48 AM (GMT 0)
Very interesting, everyone, thank you!

Laura, let us know if you find anything else out.
Posted 4/5/2013 3:21 PM (GMT 0)
I had an interesting afternoon reading :)

Most articles out there, only the abstracts are available...for those of you not familiar with scientific research papers, that's the wee summary at the beginning of the paper... so I couldn't read the full articles *wishes for the days when she was on university staff and had access to these things*

Everything I could find followed a pretty similar theme. Older material - older than say, five years or so, discusses what you raised originally AMF...about whether it can be rooted in anxieties or depression, past experiences, whether it might be a somatoform disorder and so on. Most newer articles concede that the cause is unknown, but is probably an abnormality somewhere in the CNS - also compares it to other neuropathic pain syndromes.

One good article, if anyone wants to read: LINK HERE

Laura
Posted 6/20/2013 3:58 AM (GMT 0)
Stress aggravates all diseases, not just fibromyalgia. Holding onto negative emotions causes stresses whether it be fear, anxiety. So the answer is yes, it will make it worse, but is it the sole cause? Not for me. The only anxiety I ever had was caused by having FM/CFS.
Posted 6/20/2013 4:21 AM (GMT 0)
The Frozen Fears theory is not about anxiety. Here is more information:

Dr. C. Norman Shealy of Springfield, Mo., believes the fibromyalgia patient has had a shock to the nervous system, physical, chemical, emotional or electromagnetic,

Shealy is a medical doctor who specialized in neurosurgery but now calls himself a holistic alternative physician. He was a founder of the Holistic Medical Association and holds a Ph.D. in psychology.

Shealy has been seeing many patients with symptoms of fibromyalgia.

He believes a synonym for the syndrome is "frozen fear."

Whatever shock the patient suffered is stuck in the subconscious and has interrupted the sympathetic nervous system and put it in a state of overdrive.

This shock, which can come from events like car crashes, surgeries, and other traumas, depletes the body of magnesium and brings about adrenal burnout and loss of sleep needed for beta endorphins restoration.

"This brings about cortisol levels becoming elevated and a drain in DHEA levels -- other than that nothing's wrong," he said.

The person is more or less in constant alarm, he said. We find them with low levels of magnesium, low DHEA levels, lack of stage 4 sleep and a look at their EEG will show an excess of activity in the right frontal lobe, he said.

What Shealy does for his patients is return the levels of magnesium to where they are needed.

He also uses transcranial micro-current stimulators called LISS to assist in bringing brain chemicals and sleep levels back, as well as reducing pain.

To retrain the autonomic nervous system he suggests biofeedback, relaxation and guided imagery. Music or vibratory music in bed with speakers also is good.

"Sometimes, past life regression and tracking techniques are also good," he said.

When it comes to things taken by mouth, Shealy suggests herbals like Kava Kava, lithium orotate, B complex, especially B3 and B6.

He said massage, good nutrition, antioxidants also are good.

"It's not just in their heads, it is in their autonomic nervous systems. It isn't caused or brought on by themselves. FMS patients are not crazy," he said.

Possibly the most important element in improvement for his patients is exercise, beginning slowly and building.

He says the world has more cases of fibromyalgia because "the world is living in future shock -- electrical, media, exposed to more distress than our ancestors were in their whole lives."

Shealy believes the good news is, "If you find the right physician, it is very treatable and most can live fairly normal lives."

Patients with FMS need to find a good physician who is willing to look deeper and relate to the patients.
Posted 6/20/2013 4:38 AM (GMT 0)
Big news just today that researchers have found a probable biological cause for Fibromyalgia. Now it can be proven that it is not fear. See my post for link. I can't get it to post now for some reason.
Posted 6/20/2013 4:42 AM (GMT 0)
Just from my own personal research, the following may be associated with fibromyalgia:

- chromosome 17p11.2-q11.2
- SCN9A gene-encoded dorsal root ganglia sodium channel rs6754031 polymorphism
- impaired ยต-Opioid receptors
- low cytokine levels
- increased levels of substance P, nerve growth factor, and brain-derived neurotrophic factor
- low levels of metabolites of serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine

Here are a few excerpts from "Trapezius activity of fibromyalgia patients is enhanced in stressful situations, but is similar to healthy controls in a quiet naturalistic setting: a case-control study":
"A working hypothesis is that FM patients, due to
dysregulation of the autonomic system, may generate
more muscle activity and thereby pain in response to
stressful influences."
"FM patients were consistently distinguished from HCs by higher trapezius activity level in situations that trigger
sympathetic activation (inspiratory breath holding, eating,
mental stress test), valid for both trapezius electrode
placements in most comparisons."
(Note: HC = healthy control)

There is a wonderful article of which I could not decide which parts to copy and paste because almost every word seems so ground breaking and significant. So here is the information for the article:

The Science of Fibromyalgia
Clauw, Daniel J, MDView Profile; Arnold, Lesley M, MDView Profile; McCarberg, Bill H, MD; FibroCollaborative. Mayo Clinic Proceedings86.9 (Sep 2011): 907-11.
Posted 8/14/2013 3:30 PM (GMT 0)
Although this would take a few weeks... I can prove to you that absolutely everything Fibromyalgia, ME/CFIDS patients are experiencing is inherited .... although the viral, toxic and bacterial insult is playing a part. If you wish to spend a couple of years studying it.... start with the Sox 9 and 10 genes and go to the Neural Crest.... each time you do that Search Fibromyalgia research and the name of the object you are studying. I have done this for 20 years and I am NOT a doctor or have any formal medical training but I have the respect of many. It is my non-professional option after studying all of the research that has been discovered on Fibromyalgia and Me/CFIDS including Gulf War Syndrome that they are subsets of one another as Dr. Baraniuk believes at George Washington Univeristy. Each gene that turns up have similar aspects on them of the last gene.... I have connected them all.... I have some rare diagnosis that is being studied in New Zealand and it just so happens its right on the gene with a Me/CFIDS research finding. So I followed all of those and came up with the same identical answers. One of our parents, perhaps our Mother could not Methylate her DNA... and her mom and her mom... this is not new. When that happened, we are supposed to have Two X genes... if women, from each parent. One becomes silent... and sits there unless needed. ONly it appears ours are not silent... the crop out and do some damage. It is interesting I was recently put on Tegretol... carbamazepine. When I read about all of the reasons WHY... it addresses these specific SCN9A nerves and also happens to address Alpha 1 Antitrypsin which may be a silent X in our body peaking out... those two genes are way apart from one another... Chromosome 2 and 14. BUT.... 14 also has cutis laxa... and if you go researching Ehlers Danlos and extracellular matrix... which makes nerve fibers, you find neural crest cells.... and how we were ill formed. Tegretol is making a difference because it calms those hyperexcited small fibers on the SCN9A gene.... and it has a lot to do with autophanges and mitochondria... with Alpha 1 Antitrypsin. Taking bandaids, don't help the problem. Gaba drugs must play a part but won't get past the blood brain barrier, Tegretol does. Would it hurt anything just to talk to the doctor about that option. Perhaps closing the gates on the open SCN9A fibers and changing Alpha 1 Antitrypsins deficiency just might change your body. Until then, I eat bitter things.... they have the same closing effect... though nasty. Not a doctor, no medical training... but GET to the bottom of the problem not look for a drug to paste over it. I feel certain we are looking at peaking silent X genes on Chromosomes, 2, 7, 11, 14, 15, 17, 18, 22, and maybe X.... at the breakpoints.... and Mama's mitochondria. Then Dad fertilized those eggs and the problems began. Ask your doc about Tegretol and if it might help you in any way. Sure has helped me... P.S. 9 members of my family have Fibro, 3 have me/cfids and 1 Gulf war syndrome.... some we never met. I do not mean to be critical of anyones post... but I have had this miserable mess for 33 years.... when I see is it frozen fears... sorry that puts blame on me and I won't except any blame... Are you scared to breathe... maybe.... are you scared of cold fronts... I am you bet.. they kill me because my SCN9A nerve fibers which are thermal controlled also... sure do remember the last time I got cold. But that is not how it works... its about the fact that the fibers are ill made... oh and PS. The Herpes Virus 1 and chicken pox/singles live in those Doral Root Ganglia too... have you had Shingles YET? Makes fibro feel like a simple ache.... They are in there having a party I think.
Posted 8/14/2013 3:34 PM (GMT 0)
If you ask 200 medical professionals what causes Fibromyalgia... you will get at least 100 different answers. Fear is in the same area of the brain as our learning and memory... so anything is possible. Our tiny little egg might have feared the sperm... they are strange looking creatures. I don't doubt any idea.... but you can go all over the world (I have) and find people with the same identical issues, symptoms, and FAMILY background... the Epigenetics are interesting in that Ghost genes live within us.... so if people starved then we may have a problem with food, or if people went north and got so cold from the ice age we have a problem with Cold.... they have been passed in our genes just like Roseola, Herpes 6 ! Might not be about any fear we have at all.... its built in!
Posted 8/14/2013 5:30 PM (GMT 0)
linchu13 , I was wondering where you are located. I met someone on another board recently who talked about a chiro neurologist. According to her there aren't many of them. She has had some very interesting stories about patients that he has helped. Have you been seeing him and does he also have a massage therapist on staff?
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply