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Moringa powder for fatigue

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Posted 11/26/2018 12:27 AM (GMT 0)
ANYONE TRIED moringa powder for fatigue ,saw it online and was wondering.

I am flaring up so need something to bring me back.
Posted 11/27/2018 2:56 AM (GMT 0)
I have forgotten what Rockon's original post was about one day, but anyways, it was where another mast cell patient was suggesting some teas to her. One tea suggested to her was Linden, another Moringa, and hibiscus was the third. Saturday Rockon shared a post about a Satuday "small business day" discount. That same person who posted about teas also makes safer body products (like soaps, shampoos, conditioners) and salves, candles etc. (She "coaches" her clients in health/diet, also.) Saturday I was looking at the ingredients on the pictured labels of her sales items and I noticed moringa in something topical. Maybe it was the pain butter but I could be wrong. Rockon has now taken down the sale post or I would be able to tell you. Now thinking about it, I remembered something in a post about one of her clients having a moringa tree, and keeping her supplied with all of the moringa that she wants.

At a store that I frequent, everything I see stocked is with moringa leaf, but I was thinking about looking online for something from the seeds, because I had also found a study about the moringa seeds.

The tea I tried at a Mexican grocer (and I just saw it at a CVS) was a mix of things. It had Moringa, but I don't know if it was enough to be called therapeutic. This tea's called a Moringa cleanse. I bought a couple of boxes of it and some of Linden tea at the same time. I don't feel any difference using the 2 teas. (by the way, I don't think you're supposed to have whole lot of the Linden? maybe better check on that, if anyone tries it out)

These are all flavonoids, or they have flavonoids, so you're also not supposed to exceed 2000 mgs a day total. Of all flavonoids. Watch out if you're using other things (like turmeric,also a flavonoid.). Rockon has backup for that information, and named several flavonoids, in her thread about mixing quercetin in oil. At the other forum, if you need the info.

What I did one day was google for: moringa mast cell, on the day I started looking around.

Bioactive Extract from Moringa oleifera Inhibits the Pro-inflammatory Mediators in Lipopolysaccharide Stimulated Macrophages

[LPS = lipopolysacharide. The cell walls of gram negative bacteria have LPS, and will set off reactions by different types of immune cells.]
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc4787088/

"Interestingly, we found that M.[Moringa] oleifera hydroethanolic bioactive leaves extract significantly inhibited the secretion of NO production ["NO" is nitric oxide, one of the reactive oxygen species/ROS (free radicals)]
and other inflammatory markers such as prostaglandin E2, tumor necrosis factor alpha [TNF-a, inflammatory cytokines], interleukin (IL)-6, and IL-1β. Meanwhile, the bioactive extract has induced the production of IL-10 [anti-inflammatory cytokine] in a dose-dependent manner."

"In addition, M. oleiferahydroethanolic bioactive leaves extract effectively suppressed the protein expression of inflammatory markers inducible NO synthase, cyclooxygenase-2 [COX-2.The COX's are enzymes that produce prostaglandins] , and nuclear factor kappa-light-chain-enhancer of activated B-cells p65 in LPS-induced RAW264.7 macrophages in a dose-dependent manner."

Rockon could explain to us the relevance of those specific cytokines for our patient group. That is, whether or not those have been found in fibro studies. But since that can't happen, then maybe look at the cytokines listed in the studies in her fibromyalgia/inflammation markers thread if you really want to see if the "moringa cytokines" above are a match to some cytokines found in fibro studies. My brain does not hold onto the cytokine names like her's does

They talk about prostaglandins a fair bit (inflammatory) in the mast cell groups. For example as I recall PGE2 (above, in that moringa study) is one of the mediators included in the 24 hr urine tests for mast cell diseases. They talk about prostaglandins causing inflammation and being very responsible for both fatigue and hair loss. I should maybe say that I have never seen reference material given as backup for stating that the prostaglandins are responsible for a lot of the fatigue. Can't inflammatory cytokines do that as well?

Rockon has posted in groups about luteolin use for fighting prostaglandins. (see the other forum, I think. Look for the quercetin mixed in oil thread?). I am pretty sure that was all brought up in a hair loss thread in a mast cell group one day. But maybe if you don't have mast cell scalp symptoms then I suppose hair loss due to prostaglandin release does not become an issue for you. I am not so sure how that works. Off track, anyways, but it might help someone with that problem to read about that.



Study
Topical application of Moringa oleifera leaf extract ameliorates experimentally induced atopic dermatitis by the regulation of Th1/Th2/Th17 balance.
Choi EJ, et al
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27744247/


There are fibromyalgia and CFS studies with the specific cytokines identified in them, named as being part of each of those 3 different T helper/Th systems. By identifying the cytokines, they try to figure out which Th system is dominating. In these 2 disorders, a TH system has become dominant, which I believe should not happen on a chronic basis. I believe. I am just not as well read on this stuff. And just as likely, I do not remember as much as I would like to, of what I do read.
Posted 11/27/2018 3:38 AM (GMT 0)
I said Nitric oxide/NO is an ROS. It is not. There is some kind of interplay between them, tho. I can't wrap my head around it. Sorry, not edumacated enough.
Posted 11/27/2018 1:50 PM (GMT 0)
Wayup, have you TRIED Moringa powder? That was Cilly’s question. Every time you post, it’s about what Rockon has to say. Why not tell us what you think on various topics? You are a smart person and I know you can contribute to this forum.

Cilly, I have never tried the Moringa powder but the National Institutes of Health have tested it and it seems safe to try. But remember, what works for one with fibro doesn’t necessarily work for another. I didn’t see where it helped with fatigue but I didn’t read completely through the articles. I’ve been very sick the past few days. But you can google “Moringa powder nih” and info will pop up for you to read. Hope this helps you.

Sherrine
Posted 11/27/2018 6:16 PM (GMT 0)
Sherrine, as I said in my reply, I did try some. I also shared just 2 of the several studies that I looked at, and mentioned another that I read. I shared with Cilly that someone who makes a living helping clients uses it in products. I used Rockon's name at the first because that is my primary introduction point to this person, although I notice her now in group. As it has happened (and it happened here) Rockon is my introduction point to a lot of the fibromyalgia/cytokine research, and my intro to prostaglandins and my intro to what COX 1 & 2 do, and mast cells, and glia, and ROS, and I do not mind at all giving credit to her for having educated me some on these topics. And if people trust her information, then maybe if I say she is my source, then they don't feel it necessary to verify the information on their own. It can take up our time verifying things on the internet.

If anyone knows her research work here at all, then perhaps they will want to know where they can look at it to compare the cytokine set involved in fibro and involved in the moringa set of research papers. It may not have occurred to them to do that. Or someone might be new here. I didn't feel like doing it myself for the people here (I would be doing itball over again!) and I didn't feel like typing it all out, linking/referencing each study. It's already right there in Rockon's thread, so if someone is the kind of person who is cautious and likes to look at backup references, it's there for them to see. I am indeed sorry that this has somehow offended your senses of how I should frame where I come-upon the information when I find it. However, I don't believe I break a forum rule in telling people the source of my information, and I can't think that it is truly offensive to people. I would like to credit everyone who shares hard-found information, but (1) they are using their real names in my other groups (2) No one here knows them.

When no one knows the people making statements, I feel I should say that they did not actually provide back-up references for their statements. That's why I pointed out that I have not myself read any proof that prostaglandins are THE major fatigue culprit.

Back to prostaglandins.
As I think about this some more, though, Dr Theoharides and Dr Afrin, both mast cell experts, think prostaglandins are problematic for patients. I do not know the exact details.

A patient that I cannot name said that at her appoinment with him Dr Afrin said that many of his patients are able to better tolerate celebrex than many other NSAIDs (which tend to activate mast cells in many patients). He told her he thinks maybe it's because it affects only COX2, and not COX1.

In the video "My mystery symptoms", on Youtube, Dr Theoharides spoke briefly about aspirin being useful sonetimes. In his book "Never Bet Against Occam", Dr Afrin wrote about giving small presciption doses of aspirin from compounding pharmacist to desensitize patients to it very slowly. Gradually increasing the dose. To what level of dosing, I do not know.

Wikipedia:
"Aspirin is non-selective and irreversibly inhibits both forms (but is weakly more selective for COX-1). ... Normally COX produces prostaglandins, most of which are pro-inflammatory, and thromboxanes, which promote clotting. Aspirin-modified COX-2 produces lipoxins, most of which are anti-inflammatory."

But I have seen a couple of patients in a recent thread say that they developed a problem from using it. I don't remember just what problems. I noticed in a different group post that Rockon said she has desensitized to it a bit on her own. She had mentioned that here previously but I suppose some people.might have missed seeing it. I saw someone in that group thread say you should not do it on your own, because it's such a mast cell activator for some. I don't know if she meant that it should be dosed while you are at the doctor's office, or what. Maybe just means get guidance on doses. Or maybe she is afraid for people who don't even have an epi pen prescription yet, to be playing with ideas. There are a lot of super sick people in those groups, like people having anaphylaxis, and other serious symptoms, so it's probably good to point out a need for caution. And so I pass on information from other people that I am coming to know, to add their perspectives, which come with more experience than just my own reading.

Post Edited (wayup) : 11/27/2018 6:27:17 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/6/2018 6:28 AM (GMT 0)
I have been taking baby aspirin as to fix my inflammation generally.

It helps a lot but since got HIGH BP and HEART ISSUES past 6 months I m more careful to not take it but instead take advil/motrin for pain as its high dose.

I am getting insurance this year so will get annual physical ASAP.
Its long overdue and me freaking out already what will labs and docs say?????
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