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BREAKING NEWS: Probable biological CAUSE of Fibromyalgia identified

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Posted 6/20/2013 4:20 AM (GMT 0)
www.redorbit.com/news/health/1112877149/fibromyalgia-tissue-pain-hands-feet-fatigue-061813/

I'm thrilled! turn

Post Edited (applevenus) : 6/19/2013 10:48:27 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/20/2013 4:39 AM (GMT 0)
That link did not work for me but I also found it here: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/262132.php

This new finding implies that Fibro is actually a vascular problem. Go figure!
Posted 6/20/2013 4:51 AM (GMT 0)
Just google "Rational Biological Source Of Pain Found In The Skin Of Patients With Fibromyalgia"
Posted 6/20/2013 4:54 AM (GMT 0)
Well, it may explain the cold hands and feet...

It could also explain why some people find acupuncture helpful. I suspect that sticking needles in someone would stimulate their blood flow.

Post Edited (Jasmine Grace) : 6/19/2013 11:15:42 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/20/2013 5:13 AM (GMT 0)
Huh. Well, who knows? Maybe this really is groundbreaking. I did think it was strange that they said we have "low levels of inflammation," almost as if that were a symptom or problem.

It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this. So far it's just that one study. Wouldn't it be wonderful?!!?

Debbie
Posted 6/20/2013 6:15 AM (GMT 0)
I wonder how the vascular irregularities might affect sleep quality? I suppose abnormal blood flow in the brain in general could cause all sorts of cognitive impairments? (I'm assuming the same vascular abnormalities that were found on the skin is assumed to exist elsewhere in the body like in the brain?.. Or?)

Stream of consciousness-
There have been times in which I was conscious but had my brain 'freeze' for a moment, completely forgetting where I was, what time it was, what building I was in, what day it was... only for 5 seconds or so... but somewhat alarming. And then when I regained my wits about me, so to speak, I tried to figure out what on earth was going on in my brain for that to happen! In my mind, I always imagined as if some of the parts of my brain were getting less blood than normal... I have no idea if that is true or not, but its just something I imagined might be after the experience. Maybe not.. I'm thinking out loud.

I should do more reading on this before I make any assumptions about the implications of the study.. haha
Posted 6/20/2013 6:25 AM (GMT 0)
There is research showing a reduced blood flow to certain parts of the brain, particularly the area that discriminates pain intensity (I think).

Post Edited (Jasmine Grace) : 6/22/2013 5:42:12 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/20/2013 6:43 AM (GMT 0)
^ On that topic. (and concerning this study)

"Therefore, the pathology discovered among these shunts in the hands could be interfering with blood flow to the muscles throughout the body. This mismanaged blood flow could be the source of muscular pain and achiness, and the sense of fatigue which are thought to be due to a build-up of lactic acid and low levels of inflammation fibromyalgia patients. This, in turn, could contribute to the hyperactvity in the brain."

Dr. Albrecht also points out that alterations of normal blood flow may underlie other fibromyalgia symptoms, such as non-restful sleep or cognitive dysfunctions. "The data do appear to fit with other published evidence demonstrating blood flow alterations to higher brain centers and the cerebral cortex of fibromyalgia patients" he stated.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/262132.php
Posted 6/20/2013 11:25 AM (GMT 0)
Maybe this is why exercise is so helpful.

Hugs...
Posted 6/20/2013 11:28 AM (GMT 0)
You mean because exercise improves circulation?
Posted 6/20/2013 11:30 AM (GMT 0)
That is what I was thinking... It only makes sense, since it gets the blood flowing. This might give us better ways to keep it under control now that we have something to work with.
Posted 6/20/2013 1:18 PM (GMT 0)
Yep, I was just about to bring up regular exercise...
Posted 6/20/2013 4:45 PM (GMT 0)
CharmCityLady,

about your brain freezes- There was a study done on rats in which they deprived rats of sleep and then monitored neural activity. They found that groups of neurons would shut down for a short period of time and then turn back on -in kind of a rolling blackout, one section off then back on- then another section of the brain shuts off and then back on . If I remember correctly they hypothesized that it was the brains way of allowing the cells to rest and recuperate since sleep was not occurring. The suggested that if the human brain does something similar- this would impair certain functions of the brain.

Sorry this is a bit off topic but your description reminded me of that study and thought you might be interested.

-Shay
Posted 6/20/2013 5:10 PM (GMT 0)
@shay... yeah.. thanks. Thatwas my other idea considering I have issues with sleep deprivation. During the last non-lucid-moment, I had actually slept longer than normal but I thought the abnormal sleep may have caused the abnormal brain-function. That was April, I believe.
Posted 6/20/2013 7:31 PM (GMT 0)

Well, I was a little disappointed when I read "breakthrough" and then read the article.  I guess the news was there was proof that fibro is a true illness but that has been shown before.  There have been studies on the pain of fibro for years and the doctors are finding out a lot about this illness, thank God!  It has been recognized by the American Medical Association, the American College of Rheumatology, the National Institutes of Health, the World Health Organizations...and other organizations...and also premier hospitals like the Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins, and the Cleveland Clinic treat fibro patients and there are fibromyalgia specialists, too.  But this is another piece of the puzzle!

 

I think the problems with finding the cause of fibro is because it is so complex.  Plus, some will have some symptoms while others don't.  It definitely is confusing but it's not all in our heads.  I think most doctors recognize this now.  Even on my Internist's form that lists the ailments he treated when I have an appointment, fibromyalgia is listed.  If it weren't a recognized illnesses, it wouldn't be there.  But there are some doctors out there living in the Dark Ages when it comes to fibro.  I guess they think the estimated 10 million fibro sufferers (and that estimate is only those in the U.S.) are a bunch of neurotic hypochondriacs!   With all the information about fibro that is out there and all the magnificent hospitals and organizations that recognize this illness, any doctor that is a naysayer should have his medical license revoked! 

 

I was surprised by a few things this article mentioned.  It said that fibro is characterized by tenderness in the hands and feet among other things.  We do hear occasionally about hands hurting but it's usually in the joint area where the muscle, tendons, and ligaments are located that move the fingers.  Feet are occasionally mentioned but that is usually a sore tendon or the heel, in which they find out it's plantar faciitis and can be diagnosed and treated.  I certainly wouldn't list it as a characteristic of fibro...not like back, neck, and shoulder pain, pain in all four quandrants of the body, etc.  Of course this is just my opinion and my experience on this forum.

 

They mentioned low levels of inflammation that Debbie questioned and I do too.  I can't tell you how many members have come on, been tested for inflammation, and it's come back negative! I've listened to this for over eight years since I've been on HealingWell, too.  If this were a characteristic then we all would have that.  Maybe the inflammation they found was due to the biopsy they took.   devil   I'm just being bad here.  smilewinkgrin   

 

I also don't believe we are in cognitive decline.  We have bouts with cognitive memory problems but we don't get worse and worse...at least I haven't.  I remember once when I was buying something and they needed my phone number.  Do you think I could remember it?  Of course not!  I had to pull out my check book and read it off my checks.  This was the only time I couldn't remember my phone number.  It hasn't happened since either.  I do find that stress plays a part in this.  If I can't remember a word, the harder I try to remember it, the blanker I get.  So I just laugh it off.  It will come to me later or someone will finish my sentence, in which I thank them .  But my mind is as sharp as it ever was.  Just look at members who are working.  If they think they can't work any longer, it's because of muscle pain and fatigue and not cognitive memory problems. 

 

Doctors and researchers have been studying the pain of fibro and what is possibly causing it and I personally think they have a good handle on this.  Dr. Daniel Clauw has been studying this for years and did an interview back in 2009 about fibro and the things he has found out.  I do think this is a big piece of the puzzle and this new article is another piece.  We are getting there, gang! 

Here is Dr. Clauw's interview. 

  http://www.nytimes.com/ref/health/healthguide/esn-fibromyalgia-expert.html

The great news about all of this is that doctors are actively searching to discover what is causing fibromyalgia.  I do think they are close and then doctors will really know how to give us help.  We still do need to be pro-active with our health...do gentle exercises, live a healthy lifestyle, and keep that positive attitude alive and well.  We are getting closer, inch by inch, and that is definitely great news!

 

Thanks for posting this, Applevenus and Frankey!

 

Sherrine

Posted 6/20/2013 11:28 PM (GMT 0)
@Sherrine... Good thought provoking points!

I also thought it was interesting how the article seemed to focus so much on the sensations and pains of FM in the hands and feet. Obviously that is the site of the body they tested for, but it almost seemed as if they were minimizing the broad affects of FM on the body as a whole but focusing so much on that aspect. I don't hear the majority of complaints about feet and hands though I know they are affected as pretty much the whole body is at some point or another. I would really like to hear more about how these findings have indications for how these abnormalities affect the entire body... and where and how those pains come about, because so far its sounds as if the docs and researchers are still speculating as to how these findings affect the body as a whole.

Like you, I lose and regain cognitive "power" so to speak. For a few days I might be really out there in bonkers-ville, forgetting everything and tongue tied and unable to speak properly.. and then weeks later I could be feeling lucid and closer to my normal self. So at least its good to know that when we "lose" it, we don't necessarily lose it all for good and there is a chance to regain it.
Posted 6/20/2013 11:45 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks, Charm! Did you read the link to the interview? I think Dr. Clauw explained it pretty well and you can see somewhat what is going on. I think this new study is good because it draws more attention to the illness but, like you, I haven't heard much about foot and hand pain...not to the extent I would consider it a characteristic. The College of Rheumatology's criteria doesn't mention specific pain but it is widespread pain in all four quandrants of the body. They used to rely on tender points, too, but now are casting that aside because some definitely have fibro but not all the tender points.

For you cognitive memory problems. You might want to take folic acid. I take 800 mcg. a day. I do think it helps.

Sherrine
Posted 6/21/2013 1:04 AM (GMT 0)
I know that low oxygenized blood amounts are proven to cause migraines. Not sure how that would be a characteristic of vascular issues, though. I wonder if using oxygen could help with our cognitive issues as it helps with migraines? I've been having non stop migraines lately and I have noticed more cognitive issues. It could just be that my head hurts and I'm not paying attention to details but its gotten a little scary at times. Been to the pharmacy to pick up medicine and can't remember my address or I can be on the phone with a dr's office and still write the appointment time wrong. I meant to bring this up with my neurologist last week but I forgot. :p I may still bring this up. He treats my fibromyalgia and is very proactive about treatment options so it would be interesting to get his opinion.
Posted 6/21/2013 1:42 AM (GMT 0)
Angelic, I sure would let the doctor know about that. Plus, when you are in a lot of pain from the migraine, I'm sure that plays into that. I've never had a true migraine. I get the flashing lights of the migraine but no pain so I can only imagine how painful they can be.

Sherrine
Posted 6/21/2013 3:34 AM (GMT 0)
@Sherrine. Thanks for the folic acid suggestion. I'm hoping to find a doc in the area that can help create a diet and supplement plan... I've been taking mental notes of what everyone takes here to help them so I can discuss it with a doctor when I find one.

As far as feet and hands, I did sometimes experience tension and cramps in the muscles near the sole of my feet. I always attributed it to FM. But those issues have seemed to fade and now new ones appear. One of the first symptoms that I experienced when FM/CFS came on me was this deep aching in my hands. It was completely bizarre to me being that I was generally healthy. But once again, it faded and I haven't noticed many problems in the areas of feet and hands since.
Posted 6/21/2013 4:06 AM (GMT 0)
I really am inclined to believe that fibromyalgia is more than one condition. I.e. The same core symptoms may occur in a whole lot of people, but the causes of these symptoms vary. Maybe one day there will be, say, four kinds of fibromyalgia - but each with a different cause, different treatment and different name.

Maybe some people find their problems start in their hands and feet, and this is the cause of their pain. Maybe others find their problems start in their digestive tract, and this is the cause of their pain. Maybe others find their problems result from a genetic mutation that was inherited. Maybe some find that physical or emotional trauma causes or triggers their problems.

Just generally speaking about medical conditions:
Since when do the symptoms define whether or not it is the same condition? It is the cause AND the symptoms that define it. For example, take a panic attack and a heart attack - similar symptoms, totally different causes and results. The same condition? I think not.

Anyway, considering the variation of our "non-core" symptoms, I find it hard to believe that every single person who has been diagnosed with FMS has exactly the same condition.

I found this diagram which kind of helps to explain what I'm trying to say:

http://drsaulmarcus.com/fatigue/What%20is%20fibromyalgia.jpg

Although I believe that there are other conditions yet to be discovered that are, of course, not covered in this diagram.

Posted 6/21/2013 5:11 AM (GMT 0)
Doctors use symptoms to diagnose you. They might not always know the cause. They can tell through examination whether or not you are having a heart attack or an anxiety attack. Then, if it was a heart attack they still want to find the cause. Is it from a bad heart valve, hardening of the arteries, etc. so they can treat you properly but they do use the common symptoms first.

Let's say your hips hurt and you have headaches and those are the only symptoms you have. Even though you can have these symptoms with fibro, it most likely isn't the problem because you don't have pain in all four quandrants of the body and you don't exhibit any tender points, etc. The doctor might look into arthritis, for the hips and another possible cause for chronic headaches. See what I mean? So to me symptoms help define illnesses.

With fibro we share many of the same symptoms as other illnesses so fibro is a consideration and all the other illnesses need to be ruled out first.

Sherrine
Posted 6/21/2013 5:38 AM (GMT 0)
Okay... I do understand that both symptoms and causes are important in diagnosis.

I'm just saying that this research may have uncovered the cause for some, but not all, patients. I know other conditions need to be ruled out. But maybe there are more as yet unknown conditions that will eventually be on the list of "conditions to rule out" for people presenting with FMS symptoms? Such as this one they are starting to discover?

I suppose I'm just trying to not get my hopes up too much... the last time I got excited about a "credible cause" it turned out to not be true and my hopes were dashed against the rocks.

Posted 6/21/2013 9:27 AM (GMT 0)
Saw this from From Lothar M Kirsch, a German rheumatologist who blogged about the topic (no idea what his credentials are). http://rheumatologe.blogspot.com/

..."Importantly, the sensory fibers express α2C receptors, indicating that the sympathetic innervation exerts an inhibitory modulation of sensory activity.” I would expect this, too, as central inhibitory modulation isn’t working correctly any more in fibromyalgia patients, this is a way of adapting to the new condition. "

"The authors conclude: “… SNRI compounds may provide partial therapeutic benefit by enhancing the impact of sympathetically mediated inhibitory modulation of the excess sensory innervation.” But this isn’t a conclusion; it’s a repetition of the hypothesis!"

"I don’t want to question the results of this study, but the implications are farfetched. In this way the study may do harm. You can already see the resonance of this study on the net: “Once again, evidence that FMS includes a peripheral neuropathy”. The study nurtured the hope that with treating a peripheral neuropathy you can treat fibromyalgia. SNRI compounds are already used to treat fibromyalgia, but the effect size is very low."

"To sum it up, the study annoyed me."
Posted 6/21/2013 4:14 PM (GMT 0)
And, you don't know how many people were in the study.  There could have only been 15 people and it doesn't say it's a double blind study either.  It just says a "study". 

 

At least fibro is on their minds and that's wonderful.  For years this illness was ignored.  When I was diagnosed it was called fibrositis because they thought it was inflammation of the muscles, tendons, and ligments.  Then they found out that wasn't true and changed the name to fibromyalgia.  But during the first ten years I had this illness NO ONE had heard of it!  At least now you can find things on the Internet and see commercials, even though they are deceiving.  At least they don't show the fibromites in separate bathtubs holding hands.   devil   The word fibromyalgia is out there and the intense studies are being done. 

 

Sherrine

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