Any Guesses on How bad my Liver is?

Mr E, I am so glad my Doug did not think like you. We knew he may not survive, he may or may not get a TP. Yet we enjoyed everyday as best we could and refused to look at life like an axe was hanging over our heads everyday. When I was told I had cancer we cried for a few minutes then dealt with it, he took care of me even though he was sick too. HHMM maybe I should have ignored my symptons and waited it out....nah I got three girls and a family 10 siblings and I like them so dealt with it. If we chose to ignore Dougs illness he would have died in 2000 but hhhmmm nah we wanted more time.....

It kind of makes me sad to realize how selfish people can be, your are stealing time with your family by ignoring what you think may be a serious health issue, during this time you have wasted other peoples time and concern by asking for answers to something you dont want to confront!

I am done with this also

Howde all.

Knocking on 3 months now since I had any beer - no probs on that front and I didnt shoot myself either as suggested I should do.

I havent been to a docs (not specifically for the liver).

Update first.
Erythema is the same (florid on and off but not spreading) I dont think it can spread anymore anyway its got nowhere else to go!!
Stomach is a bit on the wobbly side when I lie down and relax and poke it - you can see its "liquidy" so im keeping a sharp eye on that one as its looking big when I stand up. Not sure if its bigger but Id have hoped that it would have diminished a bit this last three months.
Tiredness - on and off - afternoons are worse (terrible actually) - say 4pm I feel like a sleep and have to fight it. Evenings are my best wide awake times.
No spiders yet that I can see (I have a tiny pinhead one still if thats what it is on my lower lip).
Not confused.
Very light pain upper right quadrant on and off daily - I can probably feel that about 15 mins total per day.
Eyes still slightly yellow - but not where they are visible - still only behind the eyelids when I look hard up and down.
Nails OK
Bruising - ok - I think im bruising a bit easier than I used to though.
Feel a bit sick from time to time (say once every two days) - not for a week though - this week its been very very light nausea rather than feeling sick to the stomach and feeling like I should actually BE sick if you know what I mean.

I got bitten by a fly of some kind on my ankle and it swelled so bad I ended up in A&E as I could not walk and the pain was simply indescribeable. I started telling the A&E doc about my liver fears and he looked me over and said I needed an MOT and suggested I see my doctor. He checked my eyes and didnt seem concerned about them.

The reason I am here is that I will go to the docs when (if) my ascites gets bad - that seems to me to be a good reason to go for starters and appears often to be the reason people first "present". In the meantime it is important that I follow a good healthy regime so I am looking for advice from people here on how to do that.

Can anyone advise me on any online resources regarding diet - or preferably - let me know your own diet suggestions?

Is there anything I should expressly avoid. My reading tells me shellfish (for infection) - salt (if I have ascites) but thats as far as avoidance goes as far as I can read. I had my last ever tub of cockles in vinegar the other day - I could not resist but thats the end of them now... :) I was on holiday (vacation).

Is there anything I should expressly take - vitamins for my tiredness for example? I have read that B complex should be taken. I read that vegetables are good for the liver - but my father (who has Heamacromatosis (I do not)) has problems with Iron in the liver and he has to have blood drained every couple or three months. Does this mean I shouldnt eat Cabbage as this is not good for a weakened liver. I have read about thistle milk - but opinions seem to vary on its worth?

Excersize - I hate it - always have. But I am thinking of walking round a small lake near me twice a week to start with. about 3 miles. That is one hell of an uptake for me - but "fresh air" and all - I think it cant do any harm. Will it do any good?

All help appreciated.

Ah, Mr. E is back...still self-diagnosing and self-treating.  Wasn't it at the 3-month point w/o alcohol that you were going to see a doctor?  (The one you saw for emergent care doesn't count--and even he told you to see a doc about your liver concerns.) 

As PG says, if you wait until you have ascites (and you may already have it), you might not make it to transplant.

Personally, I'm not giving you any information until you get tested.  Congrats on stopping drinking, though.

Connie

Mr Ery.... Mr Ery... what are we going to do with you?? it's nice to see ur alive... at this point I'm praying for u... that's all I can do.. Sandi

Mr Ery... the words u read are of care and concern... and there is no reason to be numb... to be loved one time in a life time as well as I was loved would be everyone's dream... I had mine... as for you Mr Ery.. not listening.. and self diagnosing.. all over the place... my prayer and heartfelt concern is that you would find it to go see a different doctor while you can dear... your life is precious... you are unique in all this world... and I know you're scared underneath all that diagnostic talk but cinch up your water belly and waddle on over to a doctor and start the process... I hope you do... take care... I am praying for you that God will knock you up the side of the head... in a nice way of course Mr Ery... and tell you to seek medical help... plz.. thanks Sandi

Well well Mr E you really know how to get peoples knickers in a bunch dont you! I would love to help you with some advice but the main advice is to see a Hepatologist and you dont want that advice so I have no more to give. Without a real diagnosis.... any other advice would be futile.

Sue

You mentioned your children. What will happen when, by putting testing off turns out to be the wrong thing to have done? Then, it could be too late. There will be your wife, a widow, your children fatherless. Is that what you want? IF, you have liver failure starting, then it's already late in the game. But, by going in early you have a better chance of fighting it. You need to be more concerned about what is going to happen to your wife and kids by being a coward and not having tests run, than being a coward.
When I started going to UAMS for transplant consultation and all the tests they had to do, my daughter was scared to death. She didn't know if she wanted me to continue or not seeing the dr. I told her, I wouldn't see the dr, but then that remark hit her hard. She realized that I HAD to see the dr and be prepared for transplant if it came to it. Which it did. I had liver cancer and a microscopic vascular tumor invasion that no one knew about. My meld score was only at 22. No blood tests showed I was down to just having 2 months left. The drs didn't know I was as bad as I was. I just knew that I getting worse. Sleeping more than awake, appetite really good and still losing weight.

My grandkids are very happy to have me still around. The oldest (who is only 13) was very scared for me.

Besides all that, when you get so far into liver failure, you'll most likely encounter hepatic encepholapathy. That means, your ammonia levels will be extremely high, you'll have a blackout or two, and wake up in the hospital not knowing how you got there or why you are there. That's scary when it happens. And if your children see you in that state it will scare them so bad. Do you want that?

See a dr. Get your blood work done. If nothing else, see your PCP and have him/her do a liver panel (also blood work). At least you'll have an idea what your afraid of.

Good luck getting the courage to have this done, for your wife and kids. Congratulations on being sober, again.
Sandy

I was diagnosed with HepC in 1992. I just noticed yesterday that I have a red square patch on my left hand. Started out as a couple of round spots about 2 weeks ago. Could this be Palmer Erythema (liver palms). Is this in any way an indication of more advance liver damage. I don't have any of the other symptoms but perhaps occasional digestive problems but that could just be diet.

Regards, Horsefeathers

PS: With the economic downturn I can't afford doctors.

Horsefeathers - I have noticed that you only have one post so maybe havent started a new thread anywhere - and so I am replying here for you incase you come back and check.

I will tell you what I know - this is from my own experience - and not just reading from the internet.

Everything below refers to the palms of my hands - the backs are 100% (visually) unaffected.

My PE is almost totally equal on both hands. So both hands are red in the same places.
The places they are red are on the "puffy or raised parts". So this is next to my thumb on that muscle running to my wrist, and also along the rasied stretch of my palm which runs from the bottom of my little finger to my wrist. The redness of the "thumb muscle" is around 1 and a half inch wide. My little finger to wrist redness is about 1 inch wide.

If you look at your palm, these puffy raised areas almost join at the wrist - and so does my redness.
The raised parts beneath each of my other fingers is also often red aswell - but not always.

There is absolutely no itching or any other type of sensation - ever - on my hands where they are red.

There is absolutely no raising of the skin where they are red. (such as blistering)

There is absolutely no flaking or cracking of the skin.

The redness is sometimes blotchy - and sometimes complete. There are clearly defined "edges" of the redness where it cannot pass any further towards the center of my palm - almost as though the edge has been drawn by a pen.

I have a very smooth kitchen work top. If I lean on this with pressure on my palms for 30 seconds then look at my palms, they are shiny, wet and very smooth looking - and indeed - deep red.

The center of my palms are normal - they go red sometimes - I put this down to what they would be like if I were not ill anyway - probably temperature.

This is palmar erythema.

Just for your info, Silver, it's alkaline phosphatase (or alk-phos for short.)

Arneeb Sandi - that is probably one of the most observant comments I have read here.

I am amazed at your perception - even over text based communications - that you can see that that is what would be required to get me to go to the doctors - which I view as my initial chat with the death - probably causing me to throw up all over the room and maybe even pass out with the pressure of the thought of that which does not compute in my head.... the end.

You are correct in what I need to do. Where to start........

You have some serious depth there (not only because of what you just said though - not by a long shot) - you can clearly see that all is not always as it seems.

Cheers

 This response goes to Mr. E: There was a Sandi that responded to you and I am also Sandy with a (y) and I go by Silvergriz. I did comment a couple of days ago I think, but anyway, I just hope you get the help you need!!! I also have Crohns Disease and along with that I now have liver disease. I have been putting it of for about 3years now and this is my 2nd Gastro-Doc I've been going to now for about 11/2years now and my doctor doesn't seem to think there isn't any reason to do a liver biopsy at this point as my bloodwork shows minimal elevation and he's always told me my bilirubin was normal. But I'm always tired, I itch all of the time and have red palms and my eys are always dry. I just don't understand how I got this disease, as I don't even drink, go figure. But I guess people can get liver disease and they don't have to drink!! I have to go baack to my Doc next week, and I will be askinf him some more questions too as he now wants to put me on the drug Humiria, which I know come with alot of side effects and I need to know if that is something you give to somebody tht already has pre-existing liver conditions. Anyways, Mr. E I forgot how you got your liver issues and how long have you been trying to deal with it? Just curious--Take care of yourself- and remember we all care here!!--Silvergriz