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Posted 8/5/2013 8:52 AM (GMT 0)
Hi everyone. I'm not quite sure where to start. I'm 33 years old, a mother of 2 little boys and wife to an awesome guy. From the age of 22-24 I was an intravenous drug user(meth). And since I was 15 up until a week ago I was an ocassional drinker. I would only drink maybe once a month but when I did I would drink a lot and get drunk. And anytime I was at a function where there was alcohol I would toss back a few. Last week after a night of 2 beers and 6 shots of whiskey I noticed that 2 days later that the sides of my palms were red. After looking online I realized it was Palmar Erythema. Everywhere online says end stage Cirrhosis. I immediately made a Dr Appt and went and saw the Doc this past Friday. I told him my history and showed him my palms. He confirmed Palmar Erythema. He checked me and I have no jaundice anywhere, no spider nevi, no ascites, and he said my liver felt smooth and not enlarged. I gave blood after the Appt and will see him this Friday for the results. I am so scared. I know that Cirrhosis can have NO symptoms. And I know the devastation of Cirrhosis. My dad died 3 years ago at 54 from Cirrhosis from having hepatitis C and a year later my mom who was a severe severe alcoholic died of Cirrhosis. She was constantly drunk for 25 years until the day she died. I am so beyond words that I can possible have this disease. I guess I'm just looking to talk to someone. Im so nervous to hear the results. To know that even drinking occasionally could have devastating results. I've been an emotional wreck. And I just need someone to talk to. Thank you to whoever takes the time to read this.
Posted 8/5/2013 8:53 AM (GMT 0)
I'm sorry for posting in the wrong section. This is my very first post
Posted 8/5/2013 11:48 AM (GMT 0)
Hello , You really don't need to stress yourself out. Just see what the test results say and go from there. Alot of people get caught up in online research of symptoms and insert themselves into a disease. It's easy to do. I'm glad you decided to stop drinking and hopefully this will turn out to be nothing.


Ziff
Posted 8/5/2013 12:33 PM (GMT 0)
Palmar Erythema is actually very difficult to diagnose as its differential diagnosis is huge. It is normally only considered indicative of a problem in conjunction with the presence of other, more significant, stigmata. It is true that cirrhosis may have no symptoms until the very end stages of the disease (and for this reason it is often inaccurately termed the 'silent killer') but, like Ziff says there is very little mileage in getting worried about it until you have blood test results to work with. Given your history, it sounds as though alcohol would be an unlikely sole cause of any cirrhosis (although certainly not to be ruled out completely). I don't know if you know about your Hepatitis status, but I'm sure that you're aware that your intravenous drug use will have put you at an increased risk of contracting this. Obviously, the hepatitis and alcohol together are a dangerous combination and so I hope that the former has already been ruled out.

If you are indeed diagnosed with cirrhosis, (and the hep B/C notwithstanding, my money is on that you won't be) the fact that you are an occasional drinker and no longer use drugs will stand you in good stead. You shouldn't find it too difficult to stop drinking completely (and this will be 100% necessary) as you are unlikely to suffer any of the physiological withdrawals that so many alcoholics have to contend with. Therefore, in the unlikely event that you are indeed diagnosed you are in a strong position to take very positive steps to limit the ongoing damage to your health and to live a happy and productive life. Cirrhosis needn't be the death sentence it so often ends up being for those that aren't prepared / able to tackle the disease head on.

I sincerely hope that your blood tests come back fine and that your liver is in reasonable shape. It that does happen, you may want to give some thought to giving it the best possible chance going forward by cutting back on the binge drinking. Good luck.
Posted 8/5/2013 5:15 PM (GMT 0)
Hi, MD, and welcome to the forum. You posted in the right spot. The number one concern for you would be hep C or hep B, due to your IV drug use. That's how I contracted hep C back in '69, not diagnosed until '93. So I hope that your doctor ordered tests for viral hep. While it's possible that hep C or B could cause cirrhosis, I doubt it would be caused by alcohol in your case, since you were not a daily heavy drinker. However, you should stop your intake altogether now. It can't possibly do you any good.

If you do happen to test positive for HBV or HCV, the next step would be to get appropriate treatment. Left untreated, you would leave yourself open to hepatocellular carcinoma/HCC (liver cancer), cirrhosis, and possibly the need for transplant (which requires 6 mos. of documented sobriety.)

For now, do not drink or take any NSAIDs, which can harm the liver. Eat fresh or frozen fruits and veggies and eliminate beef, as it is the most difficult protein for the liver to process. Drink pure water. Get enough rest. Treat yourself well. And please let us know the results of your lab work.

Hugs,
Connie
Posted 8/5/2013 11:26 PM (GMT 0)
Hey everyone. Thank you for the replies. I get my results back the 9th. He tested me for my liver functions, hep c, and my thyroid functions. I'm still pretty anxious. I don't think I will be able to calm down until I hear the results. And I don't know how I'm going to deal if he tells me something horrible. If anything, my red palms have made me not ever want to put another drop of alcohol in me. And in fact it makes me sad that I ever did to begin with. I haven't touched any type of drug in over 8 years so I know that won't ever be an issue for me. But smoking is going to be quite difficult to quit doing. Even cutting back like I have has been really hard. Oh and did I mention that I'm fat? Well I am. I need to lose weight. Have tried and when no weight comes off I just give up. Anyways I suppose I'm rambling and will stop. I will mention that I feel OK today. Except for last night I have been getting intermittent pain in my knee cap and when I put my had on my knee I feel grinding. My dad had joint pain with his Cirrhosis, so this is another thing to feel anxious about. Thank u all for reading. I hope you all are having a wonderful day
Posted 8/6/2013 1:33 AM (GMT 0)
Mdk, your knee pain is likely from your weight rather than liver disease. Was he also overweight?

With smoking (as with other addictions), you can't try to cut back. It doesn't work. You just have to stop. I did it with nicotine patches. And it was the most difficult drug to give up. My long-time b.f. refused to stop, and therefore died from end-stage COPD this past spring. He could barely catch a breath, was on oxygen, and still smoking. Now that's insanity.

Hang in there and don't let your fears get the best of you.

Hugs,
Connie
Posted 8/6/2013 2:34 AM (GMT 0)
Worrying does no good. It won't make things better, and only adds to your stress. There is nothing for you to do at this point, except try to stay calm, quit smoking and find a way to shed some pounds. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for your kids and husband. They need you.
Posted 8/6/2013 3:24 AM (GMT 0)
Yes my dad was overweight. It makes sense that with my extra pounds my joints aren't doing so well. Yes quitting smoking is going to be just as hard as losing weight. I will do it though. It's not just about me, I have 2 little boys and a husband that needs me. I have accepted the fact that no matter what the outcome is I can't do anything about it. Still scary though. My hands are worse than they were a week ago. They are very dry and have 2 blisters underneath my fingers. They don't itch that much but I feel heat coming from them. I seriously didn't notice them until a week ago. My husband took me grocery shopping today and stocked up on a lot of fresh veggies and chicken and turkey. My husband is scared too. He has never drank and hated when I did. He is ready to quit smoking today. I just don't know if I can do it cold turkey. I will give it all I've got. Thanks again for taking the time
Posted 8/6/2013 3:32 AM (GMT 0)
Weight watchers and low fat worked for me. It has been 9 months, down 85lbs and holding. Walk at a brisk pace for 45min to an hour a day. Less weight lets liver work easier.
Posted 8/6/2013 4:11 AM (GMT 0)
Changing your lifestyle is not easy. You have to really want to do it. If you take away one bad habit, it must be replaced with something healthier, such as having fruit for dessert and snacks, or taking a walk instead of smoking. While I quit with patches, there are other aids available, such as nicotine gum, nasal spray, and pills. Most people can't do it cold turkey. The American Cancer Society also offers classes to help you quit (free.)

If you were ever to need a transplant, they would require that you stop smoking and also probably lose weight to be a good surgical candidate.

Hugs,
Connie
Posted 8/7/2013 2:32 AM (GMT 0)
Hi guys. So im freaking out. The sides of my palms are the reddest they've been since I've noticed them. Coming home from the store tonight I looked at them and they are a deep dark pink. They are getting worse everyday and its scaring me. I know you all say worrying does nothing but I can't help it. They are so bad. Almost to the point of going to the ER. And it doesn't help that I just read something that said that Liver disease is the silent killer and a lot of people do not get symptoms. I'm scared. I'm just afraid its too late. I am thinking irrationally right now. My husband is frustrated that he can't calm me down. I keep searching my body for anything. Jaundice, spider veins, anything and I can't find anything. I know you guys can't do anything but I wanted to just share my thoughts. I am beside myself right now
Posted 8/7/2013 4:02 AM (GMT 0)
First of all you need to calm yourself with big deep breaths. Being you're overweight and a smoker you must be careful about the added stress to your heart.

Are you smoking still? if you have quit you may need some help with the withdrawals. That would add to your stress too.

I can't help you with the palm thingy although I think London chap gave you a comprehensive rundown on the malady. If you are really freaking out and cannot calm yourself, perhaps it wouldn't hurt to be seen by a doctor. If nothing else, they could soothe your nerves and point you to a specialist regarding the palms.

Hope you get some relief soon. Keep us posted please.
Posted 8/7/2013 7:56 AM (GMT 0)
The only thing I can really say in follow up is that the mind has a habit of playing nasty tricks on us. I often convince myself that my eyes are yellow, when they are in fact bright white and even that I have ascites when I've gained a few pounds. Palmar erythema is associated with liver disease, as you know, but it is nothing more than a small idiosyncratic sign to do with a hormone imbalance. Worrying, therefore, may make it worse. I realise it's catch 22 but if you can get your head around that reality it may help.

Even if you do have liver disease, the fact that you are not jaundiced, ascitic or encephalopathic is indicative that you are unlikely to be end-stage and therefore you can be treated. There are people here, myself included, who have ended up not a million miles away from death and still managed to turn it around. It will be hard, but it is definitely possible. What matters now is not what happened in the past, for there is no way of changing it, but what you do from here on in. Trying to stay calm and having faith that our support and the intervention of the medical professionals, is the best thing you can be doing is bound to help your health no end.
Posted 8/7/2013 10:07 AM (GMT 0)
Thank you Chap. Your words do help. Its 2:45 am where I live and I can't sleep. Still a little anxious but I have calmed down significantly since earlier this evening. I read your guys' posts and I do feel better. And I remembered that in January of this year when I went to the ER for chest pain they gave me a CBC and ran LFT. ER Doc said everything was normal. I got the copy of the results ( although I don't know where they are right now) I do remember looking up the results and everything was normal. The only thing I remember about my liver function part of the test is the number 7.9. I spent about an hour searching for the papers. Ridiculous huh? But I do feel a lot calmer. I am actually starting to see how crazy I have been since my Dr Appt. Tonight I was laying in bed and my face, back and armswere uncontrollably itchy and I started to get scared and then I realized that the fan was blowing my strands of my hair on my face, arms and back. LOL. My husband and I had a good laugh. I needed that. My husband has been amazing and the thing I'm most scared about is if I have Hep C and that I gave it to him. And I'm surprised that if I have Hep C that they didn't catch it when I was pregnant and gave birth to my youngest son. Anyways thank you for your response. I wish I had you all to talk to when I was taking care of my dad. Now hopefully I can get some rest. :)
Posted 8/7/2013 1:22 PM (GMT 0)
Hep C isn't easily passed through normal sex. I had 2 long time partners (a total of 28 years), both used the pill, we never used condoms. Neither has Hep C. Mothers pass on Hep C to their babies about 5% of the time.
Posted 8/8/2013 12:25 AM (GMT 0)
Thank you for the info David. That's a relief to hear. But what do you mean by "normal sex "? Just curious. I feel good today. I have been keeping steady on eating healthy. Fresh veggies and a lot of water. I am still smoking between 3-5 cigs a day. I tried cold turkey and it lasted 6 hours. I am going to go buy some nicotine gum tonight. Hopefully it works. Palms still red but other than that I look and feel normal. This week has been going by so slow. Friday can't get here soon enough.
Posted 8/8/2013 12:35 AM (GMT 0)
Okay 6 hours? Now try to go 8 hours and eventually 10 etc until you beat this. Think about it, you really don't WANT that smoke, not really, it's a crutch that you think you need. You don't WANT to poison your lungs and give yourself medical issues that COULD preclude you from a TP should you ever need one.

Your babies need you, you can do this. Already you're making good nutritional choices so I know you have the power.

Good luck ;)

Mae
Posted 8/8/2013 1:52 AM (GMT 0)
I could give you a smart answer, such as nothing involving whips, chains or small animals...but normal sex is vaginal or oral, not anal. The last one is often called "rough" sex as it may involve bleeding.
Posted 8/8/2013 2:27 AM (GMT 0)
David you forgot you feather boa and bottomless chaps.

Ziff
Posted 8/8/2013 2:45 AM (GMT 0)
OMG.. you guys.. Sandia
Posted 8/8/2013 4:08 AM (GMT 0)
Haha! Well TMI but everything but the bottomless chaps and small animals! Lol. But it is what it is. I just need to do everything from here on to do what it takes to be as healthy as I can be. This past week has been an eye opener. Its a shame that my Mom and Dads passing wasn't but their lifestyles were so different from mine. I guess I have been naive. Anyways, can any of you recommend any healthy dessert recipes. I have a sweet tooth and was trying to find something healthy but sweet.
Posted 8/8/2013 7:19 AM (GMT 0)
Hi MD -

I'm also one of the self diagnosed worried person here until i've been officially told to stop self diagnosing all together.

LFT and ultrasound should be your first steps and you can follow your doctors recommendations from there. I know.. everytime i feel super tired and i look up the cause online.. it starts with liver cancer to cirrohsis to ... just doesn't stop. but it's natural to get tired at busy work place.

I quit smoking 2 years ago cold turkey, I cut down drinking and been dry for few month ago... I worry so much that I have panic attack and when I think about this... it's easy to let go of the addictions.. atleast for me. it's not easy but at some point... it'll happen if you keep trying. GL.

Posted 8/8/2013 7:20 AM (GMT 0)
Sugar free jello only has about 10 calories. Same with sugar free Popsicles. If you've time, a fresh fruit salad is always nice. Hubby mixes his canned fruit cocktail with cottage cheese, not to lose weight, he actually likes it:). He likes the kind with no added sugar/syrup and it has only 10 mg sodium. Gotta check the sodium if you use canned anything. Try to stay under 2 grams per day.

Sounds like you're trying to do all the right things, good for you!

Good luck and let us know your results tomorrow :)
Posted 8/8/2013 8:18 AM (GMT 0)
I ended having some non fat yogurt and some fresh strawberries. I will be getting some jello though. And fruit cocktail with cottage cheese sounds really good. I will let everyone know my results Friday. I am still nervous to hear the results. I am hoping for the best. But seeing how my red palms showed up just 2 days after drinking a lot of alcohol I suspect that the news will be that my liver is in not the best of shape. I just hope I can have the chance to heal my liver. And I truly hope my hep C test is negative. To put my family through having to test and possibly my husband and children having it as well makes me want to cry. I never shared needles. My roommate at that time was a diabetic and I had clean needles whenever I needed them. I'm trying to rack my brain to see if I possibly could and I know I never did. I never accepted a needle from anyone. I always got them from my roommate myself. Anyways, I guess maybe there is a chance that Is have it. My dad did live with us for 6 years and he had hep C. Anyways, I et good all day. My palms are still the same. I've been itchy today. Not uncontrollably but more so than normal. But it seems to be the same spots. I hope that if I am OK I am still welcome to chat with you all. You don't know how much you all have helped. And one more question. If my liver was cirrhosed why would the doctor say it felt great...He said it didn't feel enlarged. You think maybe because it has already shrunk because of cirrhosis? I'll stop now. Lol. I need some rest. Hopefully I can get soe. Nite all!
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