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Posted 6/9/2011 6:47 PM (GMT 0)
My 38 year old brother has been a raging alcoholic for about 20 years. I am the only one in my family that saw it at all, and have been totally demonized each time I try to broach the subject. I told him eleven years ago that I cannot be around him until he has been sober for three months. It is just not safe. Plus, I have a kid who does not, by any stretch of the imagination, deserve to be subjected to him.

He has no family, no GF, no local true friends, and no job. Our mom has been supporting him 100% for a very long time - rent, groceries, booze, cell phone, car, laundry, cooking, pocket money, internet, and on and on and on. My brother just took and took, and she let him, despite my pleadings that she open her eyes! In fact, he lived with her for two years, up until December. In that time, she did not leave her house at all, saying she was afraid to leave him alone. My response: MOM, IF YOU ARE AFRAID TO LEAVE HIM AT HOME ALONE, THIS IS A MEDICAL EMERGENCY - TAKE HIM TO A DOCTOR, GET HIS LIVER CHECKED, MAKE HIM GO TO AA, SIGN HIM UP WITH A THERAPIST - FOR GOD'S SAKE, DO SOMETHING! AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP BUYING HIM BOOZE! Of course, this totally backfired with my mom totally resisting and being angry at me for saying such things.

Fastforward to a month ago: He was taken to the hospital, vomiting and pooping blood, had 13 liters of fluid siphoned off, followed by another 11 liters two weeks later. His legs and feet are totally swollen. He has spider veins on his skin and bruises all over. He is severely jaundiced - even to his eyes. He's battled fevers. His hands cramp into contractures. He was getting plasma injections. He is confused, disoriented, angry, and lashing out. Sometimes he's relatively lucid, but it comes and goes. He hallucinates about bugs that aren't there and was seen having a conversation with the wall. He is still in the hospital.

He was advised that the only way he could survive, of course, was to stay sober, and that someone with his history needs in-house rehab. He thinks everyone who says this is completely stupid and don't know what we're talking about. Indignant to the core, he acts offended by it.

His solution (assuming he makes it out of the hospital at all) is to move back to his apartment, live alone, feed himself, take care of himself, drive himself to various doctor's appointments, and live happily ever after. It is so sad, but his vision is such a pipe dream. He just can't get there without some other treatment in between. Hell, he can't even go to the lobby in the hospital without needing at least three breaks. He falls asleep on himself all the time - often mid-sentence, he has no license due to his handful of dui's, he has no support there whatsoever other than a few new drinkin buddies, as far as I can tell.

He is such a sick man - chronically and acutely, mentally and physically. It is so sad. I see his decision as ultimately meaning that he'll be dead in a couple of weeks. Even setting aside the reality of returning to the sauce, he's just not able to care for himself, to monitor his health, to remember medications, to get to the doctor, to grocery shop, to feed himself, etc. It is so incredibly heartbreaking, but I think he has alcoholic demintia and this is where his "plan" finds its root. It is not objectively realistic at all.

My mom has finally opened her eyes to the reality of his alcoholism which is actually has been an amazing transformation. She is crushed at his demise, at her unbelievably strong denial, and at her clear contributions to his self-destruction.

Please please please give me some guidance if you have any. I've read everything I can get my hands on, but still feel like I'm in a vacuum.

Post Edited (ytrewq) : 6/10/2011 1:26:58 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/9/2011 7:27 PM (GMT 0)
Ytrewq, Welcome to the forum! I'm not a moderator but I'm sure one will be logging on shortly to give you some expert advice. However, I am a caregiver for my husband who has alcoholic cirrhosis, and, is still drinking. I don't know how much information they have shared with you at the hospital about his condition. But one of the tests they run is ammonia. That's when the alcohol builds up in their system and crosses over into their brain, thus causing confusion. Sometimes they give them meds for that and it works, and then sometimes it doesn't which could lead to a coma. They also lose their balance which leads to the fall risk you mentioned. Unfortunately it has to be his decision to quit and without his ultimate committment, there's not much you can do. I am in the same boat. You are right though, the shape he is in, there is no way he can move out on his own and survive, especially if he is drinking. If your Mom has any leverage with him, it sounds like she is the only one that "might" be able to get him to seek help, if it's not too late. But she is going to need some professional help and advice as well in order to know how to care for him, what to watch for, and to be firm about eliminating and NOT providing it for him. Like I said, it's hard, and if he doesn't want to quit, it's probably not going to happen unless he ends up bedbound.

I know this is hard on you too, but it usually very difficult on the family as well.

Good Luck to you!

Posted 6/9/2011 7:34 PM (GMT 0)
It must be awful to watch your husband continuing to drink. I'm momentarily in this space where I can at least entertain my brother quitting. I know it's not realistic, but I'm grateful that this moment holds some hope. Thank you for your reply.
Posted 6/9/2011 7:47 PM (GMT 0)
You're welcome and I hope for you and your Mom's sake that he will!

Take Care!!

Posted 6/9/2011 7:49 PM (GMT 0)
Hello ytrewq and welcome to HealingWell.   Sorry that you brother is in such bad shape.   But you are not alone.  Unfortunetly we have plenty of members with loved ones in the same boat.     We have an educational thread in the Hepatitis Resource folder at the top of our forum.  It has a lot a good information so please read it when you can.  

 I can tell you.......no mother wants her son to end up the way he has.  If she realised where he was heading she would have changed her tactics. 

Your mom was being a co-dependent to his drinking.   It's an easy hole to fall into.   It's the crawling out of the hole that is hard.   It's not easy to stop what is been happening for years........especially when you are older.  Actually he is responsible for his own situation.   He used her..........not to say she didn't allow it......or wasn't strong enough to stop it.  Each situation is different.........one shoe doesn't not fit all.  

Just be glad that she sees the light now and will not assist unknowingly his self distruction any longer. 

Your doing the right thing..........getting educated and finding a support system through this.  

We are glad you found us...........you'll find us to be a very knowledgeable and compassionate group...

Take care..........thoughts and prayers........... 

Posted 6/9/2011 7:55 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks so much, Pink!

Do you really tough-love a nearly dying man? (He might not actually be dying - I can't find my crystal ball - but it does seem like a possibility.)

This is all so sad.

Post Edited (ytrewq) : 6/10/2011 1:27:52 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/9/2011 8:40 PM (GMT 0)

ytrewq,

Welcome to HealingWell,

Sorry to hear your brother is in his own denial.  Now that mom has had her eyes opened...perhaps you should find a local Al-Anon meeting to attend to help you both deal with the situation?  You can't force him to quit.  It has to be his decision.  I can only try to understand how difficult it is to watch what he's doing to himself. 

Sadly, you aren't alone and will find a lot of support here.  It's great that you are learning what to look for and what will likely happen in the near future.

Hopefully, he does come around and it won't be too late to turn things around.

Posted 6/9/2011 9:43 PM (GMT 0)

Hi “YTR...”,

Your posts are so very well written…read them to yourself.  You already know the answers. 

We have had posts from the UK where those who are actively addicted to drugs and alcohol are given very little medical attention…sort of triage for expensive public health resources.  If a person is still drinking and has end stage liver disease, they die a sad, difficult death.  If a person is clean and sober, they treat them.  Pretty harsh.  One wife posted that they would pay for a round of rehab, but that’s it!  She has had to decide whether to keep him at home acting out in front of her children, or to send him to other relatives.  The sister in law is keeping him, but he has not found it important to get his family back.  

If your brother won’t go to rehab, he is pretty much doomed.  If your Mom is willing to do his final days at home, that is her decision.  Their co-dependency is a sad fact of this.

You can’t help him if he can’t or won’t help himself.

You likely can’t help your Mom either just now.

This is very difficult for all of you.

My hubby was near death last fall…Hep C, alcoholic cirrhosis, fully de-compensated liver.    He quit drinking…flat out quit.  He wasn’t a mean drunk, rather a daily drinker who gradually wore out his liver already weakened by the Hep C.  He joined AA, went to meetings 4 – 6 times a week.  Realized that if he drinks, he will die.  He actually felt better during his transplant evaluation -- and May 1st he got his new liver.

There is hope.  Mama Lama

Posted 6/9/2011 10:36 PM (GMT 0)

YTR..  You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and are able to clearly see what has and is happening with your brother.  It may be too late for him to stop drinking...he may have reached that place of no return...but he won't know if he doesn't stop.

In FL, the Marchman Act covers alcoholics and drug addicts.  A family member can initiate this, with the goal being court-mandated inpatient treatment.  I believe you need the signature of 2 doctors, also.  See if your state has something similar by calling Health and Rehabilitative Services (HRS.)  Or contact your local Legal Aid.

It sounds like his liver has decompensated, which brings on a plethora of symptoms and problems. 

The hallucinations he is experiencing could be DTs--since he likely isn't getting booze in the hospital.  The doctors should have prescribed a mild tranquilizer to prevent this.

I went through this with my mother--she was a lifelong alcoholic, until she ended up in a NH.  Long before that, I cut off all communication with her.  She was completely out of her mind and I was in a different state.  I had no knowledge of liver disease at that point.  But I knew I could not deal with her craziness, even from a distance.

Be sure to take care of yourself and don't get too caught up in what he's doing or not doing.  If he gets to rehab one way or another, then offer support.

Hugs,

Connie


Posted 6/10/2011 12:48 AM (GMT 0)
ytrewq, I also have a brother who is an alcoholic, and a violent one at that. My Mother took care of him, started him a business and ran it for him for years. She spent all but $1200. of her and my Dads savings supporting his bad habits, drugs and alcohol, before she died of, of all things, liver cancer. When she could no longer run his business due to the cancer traveling to her brain, and she gave him the last money he thought she had, he stopped visiting her and broke her heart. She was in Hospice for 3 weeks before she passed, and he lived 20 minutes from there and visited her once!! For almost 5 minutes, 3 of which he spent blaming me because he had no $. he did come to the "celebration of life" Mom requested instead of a funeral service, and I have never spoken to him since. My Mother, my best friend, died with a broken heart thanks to him. He cared about nothing but his next drink, and the next time he could go out and party prooving to his friends that he is the big shot!!

My mother never would stop enabling him, even though for years his drinking and lifestyle put a wedge in our family. If she had gotten help like AL-ANON, things could have been very different. Please, encourage your Mother to go to a meeting . .go with her, it will do you both a world of good. Help her by going to the meetings and find ways together to help your brother. If he accepts the help, good for him, if he doesn't at least you know that you tried!!

best of luck to you and your family!! I feel your pain and certainly understand. The ironony of all this . .my husband needs a transplant due to hep c and alcohol . . he is not an alcoholic, but when diagnosed never drank again and never looked back . . it's been a year, well 9 days it'll be a year!!

Again, best of luck to you and your family
Posted 6/10/2011 1:41 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you all for your insights! I am so sorry that each of you has a reason to even find yourself in this forum. It is a terrible disease. And I am sorry for your losses and and celebrating the victories you and your loved ones have accomplished.

I have been a student of this awful disease for a long time. I was not shocked that he ended up in the hospital with these symptoms, though I thought my mom would not be around to see and experience it.

He's going to do what he's going to do. I get that. Unfortunately, I totally get that. I have been making great strides with my mother about her not facilitating his demise any longer. She has become very strong in her own way, and for that I am proud of her. I suppose it really is better late than never.

She has started alanon! And found some comfort in knowing that she is one of millions of people suffering from the effects of an alcoholic family member. She doesn't say anything in the meetings, but seems to listen with an open, though broken, heart. She also is seeing an addiction specialist for therapy. I feel so incredibly relieved that she has some support other than me. It is just too much responsibility. I am a student of the disease/s but by no means an experienced expert.

I will travel to visit her every few weeks (I live 300 miles away). As much as I think she needs me more often and for longer periods, I have to make sure I don't screw up my life too. I have kids, a house, pets, and two businesses. To some extent, we are all on our own little islands here. Everyone (I mean everyone) has to take care of him/herself.

To all the enablers in the world - STOP IT! What you are doing will lead to nothing good.

To all the drunks in the world - STOP IT! What you are doing will lead to nothing good.

To all of those with some clarity about the situation - Just hope. You can do some damage control but nothing else.

I so much appreciate all of the tough insights you have.

Post Edited (ytrewq) : 6/10/2011 1:30:46 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/10/2011 2:22 PM (GMT 0)
It's wonderful news that your mom is going a therapist and Alanon. Between them both and your cheerleading along the way.....it will help her stay strong. Old habits really do die hard.....I can speak from experience....for her to cut the financial strings so to speak.....is probably one of the hardest things for her to do.

Take care........
Posted 6/10/2011 2:25 PM (GMT 0)
I know that I really can't even imagine how hard it is for her to do this. She feels like she is abandoning him, but knows intellectually that she is helping him. What a complicated disease.

Thanks again Pink.
Posted 6/10/2011 2:41 PM (GMT 0)
 

Excellent thread.

Best to you all.

Posted 6/10/2011 2:53 PM (GMT 0)
Dear Cable - Wow! That sounds awful! Alcoholics just lose the ability to care. They take and take and take. It's so crazy! It's hard not to hate them for it, honestly. But there are two people involved in the exact same alcoholic dance - sustaining each other - the drunk and the helper. It is so sad.

I hear about my brother acting like a total jack*** to my mother at the hospital, even though she is literally the only person who has visited him there. I translate it into his utter sadness, despair, regret, and fear. But still... She goes every single day, sits with him, watches over him, etc.

I'm so sorry your brother did this to your mom too. It is all so sad. Somehow, though, it seems that some of us can end up o.k. Talk about a miracle.

Post Edited (ytrewq) : 6/10/2011 1:32:38 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/10/2011 4:54 PM (GMT 0)
ytrewq , Thanks from the bottom of my heart for those powerfully straight forward words . This thread should be locked and pinned just above the caretaker thread here as a reminder to all who excuse the irresponsible behavior of a loved one . Some will sadly never get this understanding and be doomed to a living hell with the ones they " love " . A side of love that many refuse to accept is that of toughness or " tough love " . Watching someone kill themselves is not love ! Love takes guts enough to say " o.k , you wanna die then do it alone " . If this doesn't shock them into a reality check then what have you too lose ? The alcoholic that once was a person has gone and in it's place a empty vessel stands . You can pour all the water in the world into that vessel and never fill it up because it's cracked and damaged and no repairs can be made . That vessel needs to be smashed to bits and recycled into a new one . Sometimes the potters ( Loved ones ) have to pick up the the pieces after the container is broken , It is then and only then that the new vessel takes shape , The potters hands help reshape the clay . The vase bakes in the sun , It strengthens , Ornate colors and patterns are drawn . Later the vase gets filled with water and flowers , holding life giving water again .
There again ........ More likely the drunk hits the bottom , squeals like a stuck pig and dies . Or if it's lucky it will suffer tremendously , find itself and come back fighting harder than ever . Hopefully it wont take a few victims down with it , Of course that's totally up to the control of the ones who feel obligated to watch this slow motion train wreck .


A. Ziffle
Posted 6/10/2011 5:10 PM (GMT 0)
Aint that the truth. It has to get really, really, really awful first. People who step in and scoop up because they fear the awful just perpetuate it. Just back off. Cut the cord. Otherwise you'll find yourself writing this thread some day. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Alcoholism sucks. Enabling sucks. It all just sucks. That's about as eloquent as I can be about it...

Post Edited (ytrewq) : 6/10/2011 11:38:31 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/10/2011 7:08 PM (GMT 0)
ytrewq, You Mom going to the meetings and getting help is wonderful!! I know your doing all you can for her . .you already have alot on your plate. If I had a daughter like you, I would be thrilled. My mother has a daughter like you . .

Best of luck to you and your family

Debbie
Posted 6/10/2011 8:03 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Debbie. Really. It's pretty hard having some sense, huh?
Posted 6/13/2011 1:55 PM (GMT 0)
My brother was released from the hospital yesterday. My mother took him home . . . again. She had a few days of clarity during his one-month hospitalization, but when it came down to it, she couldn't resist scooping him up again. Ugh. He was so close to going to rehab! If she had stood her ground, he might have just done it. Now he and my mom are right back where they were before he was hospitalized. I am so angry at her. I feel like she robbed him, again, of the opportunity to actually hit rock bottom and get himself some help. I want to close this book. I know it will end disastrously.
Posted 6/13/2011 9:18 PM (GMT 0)
And so you...

Head home to your life?

Sad.  You have done what you came to do...offered a last chance.

ML

Posted 6/13/2011 10:59 PM (GMT 0)
My mother did the same for my brother . . over and over again. Don't stay angry with her, your just hurting yourself. There were times i refused to speak to my mother over the same situation and when I knew she was dieing, I wished I could get all that time back, but of course that can't happen. I finally forgave her, and would only visit her when he was not around . . she made time for me because she loved me, and your mother will too!!. In the end, my brother was not there for her, I was, and that broke her heart. What ever happens, do not blame yourself . . you have been and are doing all you can.

Please keep me posted on whats going on,
i wish you weren't going thru this, remeber to take care of you,,

Debbie
Posted 6/21/2011 7:27 PM (GMT 0)
You people are total gems! Thank you for your thoughts and insights. What a terrible disease we are all suffering from.

I am picking my battles. Saying my peace. Then just hoping for some eye-opening. My poor mother. I am often totally furious with her, but sometimes so filled with compassionate for her. What it must be like to suffer from total denial, I hope I never know. The shroud is more potent that I ever imagined. She still hasn't taken him to a doctor - in fact he doesn't even have a doctor near her house. She wasn't giving him some of his medications for over a week! Instead, she sat idly hoping for a return call from the hospital. Sakes alive - do whatever it takes to get his medications in him! She just sat waiting, wondering why he was so lethargic. Well, it's because his BLOOD IS TOXIC AND HIS BRAIN CAN'T FUNCTION! I laid into her about how important his medicines are and she got the pharmacy's issue cleared up. So at least he has all his meds now. But still there is no doctor's appointment lined up. Unbelievable. The denial is friggin unbelievable.

I think he's manipulating her into moving him into his own place and having her pay all of his bills again. Between her denial and her fear of confrontation (which applies to my brother but not to me), I expect he'll make that move happen just as he wants.

If he drinks again (he still hasn't gone to an AA meeting or any other alcohol treatment moment), he'll die. My mom will have to live with her mistakes, and I'll have to try to keep my mom from becoming a total puddle. I see it all so clearly. How am I the scapegoat and the rock at the same time? I am the only one trying to avoid his quick demise, yet I'll also have to be the one to pick up the pieces. Can I say that this is a totally sucky reality?

I love my brother. We're a year apart and grew up together, sharing interests, adventures, friends, socializing, college, etc. He's kind of like the total package if it were possible to suck the booze out of him: good looking, charming, funny, super smart, creative, artistic, motivated, adventuresome, curious, loyal, etc. But that man has been gone for so long now. I don't know if he's even still in there after all these years of drinking and taking and blaming. I might never know. I hope I at least get a glimpse of him before it's all over.

They don't call it "wasted" for nothing.

Post Edited (ytrewq) : 6/21/2011 2:02:18 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/21/2011 7:46 PM (GMT 0)

Too bad your mom wouldn't go to Codependents Anonymous meetings--but she first has to recognize that she has a problem.  I suspect you are right about her footing the bills for his move and supporting him financially...because neither of them has changed.  You might want to look into Adult Children of Alcoholics meetings (includes family members) for yourself as a coping tool.

He will drink again and the next time things get bad...when he stands at the brink of death...he may very well not make it back.

The person he was prior to alcoholism sounds like a wonderful guy.  Most alcoholics are very intelligent and sensitive.  Wasted, yes...the waste of a life.

Hugs,

Connie


Posted 6/21/2011 8:12 PM (GMT 0)
Ytrewq , Yes that is quite a headache you got on your hands . My younger brother is headed that way himself , He has all the qualities of good health , Loving wife , Two great kids , Nice Home and Cars . Over the years his drinking drinking and drugging habits have cost him his drivers license , Almost destroyed his marriage due to indiscretions with other women ( In most cases tied to his addiction ) and the list of damage goes on endlessly from there . He has witnessed me at a point near death for the same addictions but refuses to believe it will happen to him or even see the problems it is presently causing him . I don't come down on him harshly for his stupidity and neither has our parents , We came to the conclusion he will have to learn the hard way like myself .

As much as I love him and wish things to be different . He will have to hit the bottom and possibly lose his life before he see's the damage done . My parents are terrified he will end up like me but they keep a safe distance from him , We all are sadly waiting for the " Fall " and then if it isn't to late we can pick him up , Dust him off and help him regain his footing .

" Every Junkies like a setting sun " Neil Young "



A. Ziffle

Post Edited (A.Ziffle) : 6/21/2011 2:15:56 PM (GMT-6)

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