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Husband won't go to alcohol treatment/counseling, now has acute alcoholic hepatitis & cirrhosis.

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Posted 6/14/2012 6:24 AM (GMT 0)
Hi everyone,

My husband is still an alcoholic, has a history of massive gi bleeds due to gastric/esophogeal varices. Most recently he lost his job, after working there 16 years, went on a bender, and has been diagnosed with acute alcoholic hepatitis. He is jaundiced from head to toe, whites of his eyes are neon, so he cant get a job looking that way. In fact, as weak as he is, Im not sure he can work at all right now. The dr said if he abstains from alcohol, takes the Trental he put him on, and is religiously taking his other meds (esp lactulose), he will make it. Dr also said he needs to do his 6 mo counseling and sobriety period, and he WILL FIND him a liver. Im a nurse so i think thats a gutsy thing for him to say. My problem is my husband is giving me excuses, and refusing to do treatment. HELP!!! How can I get him to quit drinking for good as hes pnly been sober x2wks? His gamily and I are mulling our options over and have thought we may need to get a court order. Ughh. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Lisa
Posted 6/14/2012 12:26 PM (GMT 0)
A person is responsible for his/her own sobriety... he has to want to quit... he has to make the choice... educate him about the disease..what will a court order do?? he'll just drink the first chance he gets... there are types of interventions... you might look into... I'm not sure about their success... others may chime in with their opinions. He has to want to be sober. You can't do it for him. Talk to Alanon.. a good source. Sandia
Posted 6/14/2012 2:19 PM (GMT 0)
Sandia,

Thank you for your reply. I understandget what youreI saying, but Its hard to watch him literally kill himself.

Lisa
Posted 6/14/2012 3:33 PM (GMT 0)
Lisa,
So sorry to hear about your husband. Mine is an alcoholic too. He went to a treatment program for about a year and was alcohol free...had a slip and then was kicked out of his program. Since then, he has not attended a program. He has had a few more slips in the last 8 months (total of 20 months since he quit the daily drinking)...I am not sure how many, but he doesn't think this is an issue since his liver is still compensated and his labs have been stable. As Sandia suggested, there is nothing you can do. He has to do it. He has to want to do it. Reading through posts on this forum, there are patients that have been so very sick and come back, but then continue to drink. I cannot understand it at all. Will my husband be one of those some day in the future? I certainly hope and pray not, but I don't know what the future holds. But I do know I cannot control it. It is so hard...
I started going to Al Anon meetings 5 weeks ago. Not sure yet if it is for me, but I need to keep going, and I will.
Take care.

Emma
Posted 6/14/2012 6:01 PM (GMT 0)
Hi, Nurse Lisa, and welcome to the forum. Oh, were it so easy to get a loved one to stop drinking. However, you didn't cause it and you can't cure it. As others have said, he has to want to get sober and stay sober. Has he gone to AA? I have been continuously sober for nearly 26 yrs., thanks to that organization. He would likely have to attend there for 6 mos. and it must be documented, in order to even begin to qualify for a transplant. And for long term sobriety, he would need to continue going to meetings after the 6 mos. is up. Some centers require alcoholic counseling instead of AA. Each center is different. I personally don't believe in "30-day miracles."

When you said that was a gutsy thing for the doctor to say, do you mean in a good way or bad way? It seems he was being very direct. However, it would not be up to him to "find a liver" for your husband, but he certainly could get the process started by referring him to a transplant center. But there's no sense in doing that until your husband shows some solid sobriety.

If he has HE, he is in the end stage of liver disease. He is going to die unless he makes some major changes. That's the hard truth. Some are able to come back from the brink by quitting alcohol, eating a healthful diet including very little salt and no red meat, and following doctor's orders regarding medication, etc. However, it may be too late for him. His cirrhosis could be so severe that there's no chance of preventing a downward spiral. He would then need a transplant.

You mentioned getting a court order to get him into treatment and that is possible. However, unless he gives it an honest effort, he will come out and go directly to the bottle again.

Al-Anon is a good support system for you. Also, check out the Caregivers thread on this forum. You will receive a lot of support there from people like yourself.

Hugs,
Connie
Posted 6/14/2012 8:58 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Lisa,

The gang here is pretty honest...there are plenty of ways to ruin a liver...Hep C (various genomes of that), Auto Immune Hep, Hemachromatosis (too much iron), too much Copper, too much Tylenol, and Alcoholic Cirrhosis, etc.

The loved ones of those with liver disease are affected by the progression of this diseases in that there is no real cure (though they are working on some real hard) bar transplant and their loved ones get really sick. Some Hep C patients respond to the new antiviral therapies and hooray for that good news.

The disease process takes a long time to unfold...20, 30, 40 years before you are in it really too far to turn back. A single innocent transfusion or dirty needle or coke party or unclean tattoo needle can set up this process.

DIRECTIONS ON HOW TO MAKE IT REALLY WAY WORSE WAY FASTER; Drink alcohol. This hint is not just for those with alcoholic cirrhosis...because it will accelerate all the kinds of liver disease.

Some times our patients come to see the light...if they drink, they will die faster and there is no chance of transplantation while actively drinking.

Some do not.

We have had this next conversation a number of cycles along the way.

What are the loved ones to do?

Cajol, beg, scream and shout, threaten, accept. Stand by their man/woman/dad, etc? Leave?

Well, that's individual. And the AlAlon program helps folks see what may work best in each case...they are not big on the cajoling, beggin, screaming, shouting and threatening. They are more about taking care of yourself and protecting yourself...

Cause the alcoholic is going to make up his/her own mind. Period.

I've told Mike that if he were to return to his alcohol abuse after his liver transplant, he'd have to move to the car (or somewhere, just not here)...I'd be done.Is that threatening or taking care of me?  I don't know if I could really do that, and hope he never pushes me to that test. I know his docs told him they'd cut him OFF of thier life long committment to his care if he did.

So, like others, I still pray a lot. I have to believe he will do the right things...today and maybe tomorrow. All the rest of the days are in his hands.

Good luck,

Carol
Posted 6/15/2012 12:21 AM (GMT 0)
Lisa , It may take him to the point of death to put the alcohol away . I know From personal experience . I am a alcoholic who has survived the problems cirrhosis causes , Maintaining sobriety while fighting both diseases at once ( Alcoholism and Cirrhosis ) . Had I not gotten to the point where the alcohol made me violently ill , I could have happily drank myself literally to death .

It's said that "Every alcoholic has a bottom they hit " and Cirrhosis was mine , Some find that bottom in a grave . There is no easy answer to this problem . My only suggestion is that if you are enabling his habit in any form you should stop immediately , No trips to the liquor store or beer cooler for him . Yes , He may still get a drink anyhow but you are not contributing to his death .



A. Ziffle
Posted 6/15/2012 6:04 AM (GMT 0)
Hello everyone,

THANK YOU for your replies. I appreciate honest and direct answers. I'm a nurse so I tend to be the same way. That is why I came here. Thank you also0 for such the warm welcome.

This will be a long post from me ...heads up, as there are many unanswered questions I need to answer for you. I'll start at the bottom and work to the top.

Am I enabling? NO, I do not get his alcohol for him since the first time he got sick on 10/10/10. Easy date for us to remember. I have been totally against his drinking to the point he now hides it from me. He no longer drinks a case of beer every night like he used to, he drinks vodka now, grr! After 10/10/10 he was sober for over a year, but didn't do the counseling. He still has yet to do that. He ended up coming back to a much better state of health, only to relapse 2 weeks after he hit the 1 year mark. Then he vomited blood again in Nov. 2011, was airlifted again, and that landed him back in the CCU. He was released and started drinking a few weeks later.

When the Dr said he would find him a liver, who yes I know he's not in charge of finding a liver for him, my husband just had to commit to sobriety and counseling, I thought that was gutsy in a good way. He obviously got the impression that my DH had given up on it all and wanted to instill some optimism. It's nice to know he is so passionate about his patients care, however, DH and I know how the transplant system works (for the most part) so on the other hand it was kind of an empty promise, know what I mean?

He lost his job about 4 wks ago, went on a bender, and now he has the autoimmune hep. I'm afraid his bottom will be the grave. He's an intelligent man, he knows he has to stop or he will die. He's known that for almost 2 years now. The alcoholism is so powerful. I'm having a very hard time accepting the fact that I will have to watch him die. His parents and siblings back me up 100% on getting him court mandated to go to treatment. I dont want to have to do that, but part of me thinks it has to be done. I found out we just need 2 signatures, so his parents have agreed to sign with me. We are all devastated. My DH does nothing but lie around (he's so weak), he looks like a yellow ethiopian, fluid on the belly, muscle wasting, has dropped 20+ lbs in a matter of a few weeks. He's not taking his enulose, but he is taking his other meds. Dr says he needs to take enulose daily, no if's and's or but's.
Posted 6/15/2012 6:07 AM (GMT 0)
He wont go to AA because he feels there is too much religious influence, as he is not a religious person. Keeps making excuses for every single kind of treatment offered in the area. Very frustrating!!!

How many times does he have to be sooo sick and bounce back before bouncing back doesnt happen anymore???
Dr says he will not bounce back from this quickly. 3 mo seems like the golden standard, but DH probably can't remain sober that long.

Thank you so much (ALL OF YOU) for your support. I appreciate it so much, you'll never know how grateful I am.

Lisa
Posted 6/15/2012 6:09 AM (GMT 0)
Oh and I forgot to mention that he has been drinking for 20+ years!
Posted 6/15/2012 6:52 AM (GMT 0)
He can live... he has to make the decision.. maybe court ordered treatment would work... I don't know. I do know that it would be just as simple as starting all over again once he got out. He can live. Sandia
Posted 6/15/2012 7:05 AM (GMT 0)
nurselisajones,
Welcome to this forum and so glad you found us. Wish circumstances were better for you. I am watching my husband die from ESLD and it is very painful. (Not over alchohol, but he doesn't want to be evaluated for a transplant) and he is now in a nursing home on pain meds and anti-depressants...and other meds)

Hope the committment thing works for your hubby, but it may not. This watching them die is a very very difficult and a fine line to walk. Humor helps, but oftentimes is very hard to find. With twenty years of drinking it may be tough to change things. Sending you strength through this journey. It was hard for me to give up the anger that my hubby would not try for a liver transplant. So hopefully I can find grace and patience to walk with him through this life/death adventure with love in my heart and be understanding toward him for not wanting to take the path I want him to take. It is his journey. I try hard to remember that...it just feels so linking with mine and that is hard to let go of. Best to you tonight. Take care of yourself.
Angie1953
Posted 6/15/2012 7:50 AM (GMT 0)
Angie,

I feel for you so much!!! I would have trouble accepting what you're going through as well. You are so brave to be able to go through this, but when you love someone what else can you do? Can I ask...how old is he and what were his reasons for not wanting a transplant? I have done a lot of Hospice nursing in a nursing home, so I have seen what you're going through.

Sandia,

I think right now I'll hold off on court committal. I'll see if he can remain sober and if he starts drinking again I'll try to find the strength to go through with it, knowing full well it'll make him madder than a hornet, and that it may or may not work.
Posted 6/15/2012 8:27 AM (GMT 0)
Sandia,

Also, I read in another forum about your partner passing away. I'm so very very sorry. I cant even begin to imagine the pain youre going through. Thank you for taking the time to try to support me.
Posted 6/15/2012 12:28 PM (GMT 0)
Lisa, one day at a time. The key is to give back and support others. I'm not sure what other forum you are talking about this is the only one that I post on. I do lead a support group in my alumni association for grieving which has a focus for adult survivors and also death dying issues but that is a closed facebook group. No matter, I believe that we need to give back. My journey with Mike, part of it, is told in the postings "On the other side of no treatment". I was blessed to spend my life with Mike. I am blessed to have that special place where he still lives in my heart. My life is forever changed because I knew him and was loved by him. Thanks for your kind remarks. Sandia
Posted 6/15/2012 12:56 PM (GMT 0)
Lisa , Some people have gotten success with going straight from a treatment facility and living in a half way house for a year with good results . Of course nothing you try or suggest is going to stop a determined drunk if they don't desire to stop , Both liver disease and alcoholism has pushed the best marriages over the edge to divorce . It takes being fully committed to each other in the belief of happier days ahead , Life can be better than what you and he has and you seem to be complying with your end . I don't believe that it's any harder for a alcoholic to make the sacrifices needed than it is for a loved one to deal with the sacrifices .



A. Ziffle
Posted 6/15/2012 3:04 PM (GMT 0)
Lisa, I can understand what your hubby felt about AA--the "religious" aspect. I had been forced to attend church, Sunday school, Wed. night prayer meetings, and vacation Bible school when I was a kid and was living with a devout Southern Baptist grandmother. At age 10, I went to live with my mother who didn't attend church. Whoopee!

It's not actually religion that comes into play in AA, but spirituality. They simply ask that you acknowledge that there is a power greater than yourself. The first few months, my HP was the AA group. Most of these people had been sober for some time, so they surely were more powerful than I. Though not keen on church, I always have believed in God...although I had lost my "conscious contact" with him. It took awhile to re-establish that...a string of God-motivated coincidences...GMCs...to open my eyes. And I've always seen God at work in nature. I'm willing to bet that your hubby only went to a handful of meetings. I had heard in a meeting that one should attend meetings as often as one drank. Since I was a daily drinker, that meant meetings every day. I didn't quite achieve that, but I did go to meetings (different kinds--speaker, open discussion, 12-Step meetings, etc.) 5 or 6 days/nights a week for the first 5 yrs. I knew it was crucial to get a good foundation and not to rush through the Steps. And I learned that the Steps are not something you do once and that's it--cured. It's a lifetime commitment where one does not just work the Steps but they are working within you--guiding your every action.

I've always heard that to obtain a court order there has to be a letter from at least one doctor. I don't know if this is different in each state, but I don't think so. However, your hubby's doctor is aware of the alcohol problem and seems to be on board for his getting sober. So I don't think you will have a problem there. And I honestly think that's what it's going to take. But do wait for him to start drinking again. And I believe he will, as he doesn't have the tools to "live life on life's terms."

By the way, your first line in your initial post, "My husband is still an alcoholic," infers that if he stops drinking he will no longer be one. An alcoholic is always an alcoholic, just as a drug addict is always a drug addict. (As a nurse, I'm sure you know this but didn't make it clear.) This acts as a reminder that picking up one drink or one drug can start the downward spiral all over again. So he is still a practicing alcohol (although I wonder just how much "practice" an alcoholic needs) or a sober alcoholic...which I understand he is at the moment...although he's really just put the plug in the jug and is not truly sober.

Hugs,
Connie
Posted 6/15/2012 8:13 PM (GMT 0)
Sandia- what i meant was post not forum. :) I have never posted on these forum types of sites, only read thru them. Still new to the lingo. Im so grateful I found you and this site!

A. Ziffle- I love what you said "I don't believe that it's any harder for a alcoholic to make the sacrifices needed than it is for a loved one to deal with the sacrifices ." I agree, however, its hard for me to say becauae Im not in his shoes. Thank you.

Connie- Your post made me chuckle "whoopee!" I needed that! Hubby has NEVER gone to a mtg. Wish hed be more open minded about this. I have difficulty accepting the terms of this disease, so I think alanon would be beneficial. I think my opening I could definitely statement was a Freudian slip.

(((Hugs)))) and gratitide,
Lisa
Posted 6/15/2012 8:34 PM (GMT 0)
Now that's really cause for a chuckle: Hubby thinks AA is too religious, yet he's never even gone to a meeting! Talk about preconceptions! turn

Hugs,
Connie
Posted 6/15/2012 8:50 PM (GMT 0)
I know right!?! God love 'em. I think I might need the court committal soon, but for a totally different reason lol.
Posted 6/15/2012 8:52 PM (GMT 0)
Oh and when I type from my cell strange things happen. Connie my last sentence should have read "I think my opening statement was a Freudian slip", not the mumbo jumbo that showed up.
Posted 6/16/2012 12:40 AM (GMT 0)
Lisa,
My hubby is 65 and he has had some serious injuries and lived for extended times in hospitals due to exotic animal injuries and his reasoning for no transplant varies from day to day. He heard the Dr. say he will not get better without a transplant, but he is hard headed and says Drs don't know everything.

The transplant team in Omaha (who we have met with 2 x) have told him he will have to do what they say if he is to get a liver and HE DOESN"T LIKE THAT. He doesn't want to go through the evaluation. (I think he is afraid they will say he doesn't qualify for a liver and then ALL HOPE IS GONE.) This way he keeps saying if it gets bad, he has the transplant option. His Dr. keeps saying that door in closing as he has to take more and more painkiller and he gets more ill. (He's in a nursing home.)

He has always lived life an his own terms (elephant and tiger trainer for 35 years) and won't be told what to do !! He also said if you say yes to a liver, "You have to be ready to die that day." I guess, he is not there yet. Cost is another thing he brings up, although last summer I arranged for that, but he still wouldn't commit to the transplant team....and they have plenty of ESLD folks who will and want a liver. It is a heartbreaker for me as I think he is very healthy (??) except for the cirrhosis. But it is taking a toll on his body and mind.

In October of 2010 he was a very young 63 year old...and now he is a very very old 65 year old. This has been a nightmare for me and I am sure no picnic for him.
Angie1953
Posted 6/16/2012 2:23 AM (GMT 0)
Angie1953,

That's got to be a terrible feeling. Your hubby and my hubby sound like theyre both as stubborn as the other. I know exactly what you mean when youre explaining how quickly their physical looks change. My husband is 43 and October 2010 he didnt look like a yellow Ethiopian at all. Sorry if I offend anyone, thats just the only way to describe it. I hope your husband changes his mind about a transplant. Hugs to you, youre an inspiration of srength.
Posted 6/17/2012 3:32 PM (GMT 0)
I am new here so bear with me my husband has had alcohol problems and carries the diagnosis of
ci rrhosis and alcolic hepatitis. He has been to ER multiple times and will quit drinking for a month maybe
two feels better and starts up drinking again claiming his liver is healed (I know this is not truthful). I am exhsausted last night he woke me at 11pm to make food for him and at 0230am to see if I could find xanax, ambien, or ativan on the street since his Ativan is gone in 2 days when it should have lasted 30 days.He is also verbally abusive to me acting as if I caused his disease. Aren't ambien and xanax bad for the liver?
Posted 6/17/2012 4:59 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Kitkat, welcome to the forum.


New folks need to start a NEW TOPIC and tell us about their situation.



More people will respond. This post is mostly to help Lisa who has a similar problem.



I'll actually start one for you and call it: Kit Kat is new here and you can post there.



Mama Lama

Post Edited By Moderator (hep93) : 6/17/2012 7:54:14 PM (GMT-6)

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