overpowering stench from BMs quite noticeable in public

Jim06,

Sorry for not answering for a while...crazy work schedule lately.

I doubt the Wellbutrin contributed much to your IBS-D (although it can cause diarrhea in a small percentage of the population). But, as I said previously, the antibiotics are definitely part of your problems now. I'm guessing that your diet probably started the problem in the first place, but the antibiotics later on left your gut unable to fend for itself by leaving a ton of pathogenic bacteria behind in you. Lactose intolerance (the gas/cramping people get after ingesting dairy) after antibiotics is a huge clue. You need to re-populate your insides, and that's not an especially easy thing to do, and it isn't done quickly; in addition to re-populating the beneficial bacteria, you have to decrease the pathogenic bateria to a low enough point so the good ones don't get killed off by them and can grow to sufficient quantities themselves.

You'll have to make a commitment to yourself to take a few types of supplements every day, and probably keep taking them daily from now on. I'm sure Leaky Gut plays a part here, too. It's a natural consequence of having a yeast overload. (It allows macromolecules -- i.e., large proteins, heavy metals, yeast -- to pass through the cell walls of the gut, not stool itself.)

As I said earlier, I don't know of many people who've had success with Acidophilus cultures, but maybe you'll be one of the few for whom they work. They have to work for somebody out there, but by the time you have chronic problems you need something stronger. My personal feeling is that Acidophilus/lactobacilli only work for people who are fairly "normal" to begin with. For example, once a female gets to the point where she gets recurrent yeast infections, just forget about Acidophilus. Lactobacilli just don't work for most people. I'd go with SBX every time in that case. (By the way, Primal Defense contains a lot of cereal grasses, which those with yeast infections do poorly on -- the cereal grasses just feed the yeast.) Picking a probiotic is difficult because different companies pick different bacterial strains to put in their products. No one agrees as to which bacterial strains are the "best" ones to have, and every company claims they have the best product.

By the way, I once spoke to a woman who graduated with a PhD (enzyme research) from Baylor who told me to stay away from probiotics containing FOS. The fructooligosaccharides (FOS) are a form of sugar which the bacteria in the probiotics use to help them grow -- but they also feed yeast, and those with yeast infections should find a probiotic without them. However, you'll find people on the internet who say this is not the case. Personally, I never had good results with probiotics containing FOS, so I believe the woman.

I've heard chewables definitely don't work. And most probiotics in capsules don't survive the acidity of the stomach to make it into the gut, which is what has to happen for them to be of any benefit.

You'll certainly never find SBOs/HSOs with a scientifically "proven" background, that's for sure. The only studies ever done that I'm aware of have been with the age-old lactobacilli strains that humans have been consuming for thousands of years (the ones in yogurt and other fermented foods) -- and which don't work for people with more acute problems in my opinion. SBOs are new on the scene, so won't have any studies behind them. I've found SBX definitely works for me, so I'll keep taking it. Yes, you'll hear all kinds of scary things on the internet against SBOs. Just like you'll hear all kinds of scary things coming from the FDA about every single thing that heals people that isn't a pharmaceutical drug. You'll also hear the American Dental Association say that silver fillings are perfectly harmless (50% of amalgam is mercury -- the most toxic heavy metal there is). I got mine all taken out and replaced by composites, and I swear I never would have gotten better if I hadn't.

And keep in mind that for every medical study that finds one thing, there will be one that contradicts those same findings. In short, you have to read tons of material on whatever you're considering, read reviews from people who have used those things, check out all the forums you can find, and then make up your own mind. I would never have gotten well without digestive enzymes, systemic enzymes, SBX, chlorophyll, Pascalite clay, and a few other things. Every time I thought I was over the problems and stopped taking those things, the problems came back with a vengeance. I'm now convinced that my supplement routine is absolutely necessary to keep me functioning, and I now know that it's necessary for me to take these things on a daily basis, probably forever!

I know you're looking for the one big miracle probiotic that will cure your problem, but you probably won't find it. What you'll find eventually is something that makes you feel a heck of a lot better when you take it. You definitely NEED a probiotic, but I think you also need a number of other things -- they all work together. Chances are, it's not one thing alone that's going to work, especially when it comes to the digestive tract. You have to look at cleaning out your system as well as strengthening it, and then you have to keep the routine going.

Regarding the undigested chunks...digestive enzymes help with that, in addition to probiotics. I'd also recommend you start taking MSM (www.msm-msm.com) daily...forever.

I also want to point out that there is absolutely no reliable test in existence that will accurately confirm a yeast infection. There are people who carry a very high Candida load in their body who have no symptoms whatsoever; and there are also people who have what would be considered a very low load who show extreme symptoms. Just for fun there's a "saliva test" you might want to try for the heck of it at http://www.compfused.com/directlink/750 and see what happens!

Also, it used to be rare for a male to have a yeast infection. But in the last 10 years in this country yeast infections have reached epidemic proportions for both sexes. Itching (groin, rectum) is usually present if the problem is Candida.

About diet...
Don't go crazy and think you have to go on an "all raw" diet. I know there are lots of people who swear by it because it's worked for them, but that doesn't mean it works for everybody. I don't believe there's any one thing that will cure 100% of people, 100% of the time, I don't care who says so. People's bodies are just too unique. For example, meat eaters are always getting bashed by vegetarians, but not everyone is biologically set up to be a vegetarian. According to Dr. Sherry Rogers, there are two enzyme pathways a person's body can use to produce energy (one is the Kreb's Cycle and I don't remember the other one!). Meat eaters tend to utilize one because they have the enzymes present to be able to, and vegetarians the other because they don't. Consequently, a meat eater will feel sick and lethargic all the time if they try to be a vegetarian because they lack the enzymes to run that energy pathway; and a vegetarian who tries to eat meat will feel sick and lethargic because they lack the enzymes to run the 'meat eaters' pathway. So try to be logical about your diet. Eating ONLY meat is not the healthiest thing to do because your body needs fiber, as well as other nutrients missing in meat. But eating solely vegetables might not be in the best interest of your body, either. One thing that just about everyone does agree on seems to be refined carbohydrates (sugar, crackers, cereal, etc). Living on a diet of refined carbohydrates will make anyone sick over time. So will living off of fast food. (By the way, have you seen the movie Super Size Me? Rent it next time you're at Blockbuster if you haven't seen it -- it's outstanding!) By the way, you mentioned trying soy, so I'll mention that I've heard soy is 'notoriously hard to digest' for many people, so that might not be such a great thing for you, either. Have you heard of the book "Eat Right 4 Your Type"? I know a lot of people who swear by it (as well as some who say it did nothing for them, but you're always going to find that with anything). I keep meaning to pick up a copy, but haven't yet.

You mentioned you've started taking enzymes on an empty stomch until the clay arrives...

Would those be digestive enzymes or systemic enzymes you're taking? If they're digestive enzymes, then don't! The whole purpose is to take them before each meal, not on an empty stomach. They help break down food properly when your body doesn't. They improve digestion of food and assimilation of nutrients (so they greatly lessen gas). I recall someone saying that by digesting food, they leave less for the yeast to feed on. But the whole point is they only work when there's food in your stomach.

Systemic enzymes are a different matter -- they clear out all kinds of toxins from tissues, break down mucus, decrease swelling, even lyse the protein coat on viruses (which kills them). They're usually quite expensive, but they're great stuff, and I wouldn't be without them. They're invaluable for keeping healthy, getting over sicknesses quicker; but as I said, they're not cheap.

The Pascalite clay is healing for all kinds of things, but it's not a replacement for enzymes! It's not going to break your food down for you. You need enzymes, both digestive and systemic, if you want to heal the quickest, but at least digestive. The clay is also necessary because it will bind to toxins in the system and move them out of the bowel quicker. It also provides bulk so it'll help with diarrhea. It has other healing properties that nobody can figure out. But you need both enzymes AND the clay. One isn't a substitute for the other.

You asked how antibiotics, when stopped, can cause such a bad odor...
Hmm, that's not exactly what I meant to convey. Let's try it again...
It's not stopping them...it's going ON them. It's the "good" bacteria in your system that keep the "bad" bacteria in check. But when you take antibiotics, they kill off EVERYTHING, "good" strains as well as "bad" strains. It's easier for the "bad" bacteria in your system to overgrow rapidly, and it's harder to get enough of the "good" strains back in.

The situation gets worse in the case of Candida yeast, because the yeast form eventually morphs into a more virulent fungal form, and fungus is notoriously difficult to get rid of. Yeast give off hyphae (sort of like antennae) that work their way into the lining of the bowel and then hook into it. The only way to get rid of a persistent yeast infection is to take something that will literally pull the hyphae out of the intestinal lining. If that isn't done, you'll never get rid of the yeast. And they say that yeast is capable of causing hundreds of different medical complaints because it can mimic ANY disease (migraines, IBS, arthritis, depression...anything), which is why MDs don't think about it as being the cause of anything.

Anyway, you're constantly putting more "bad" bacteria in your body than "good". So the "bad" strains overgrow in your system and wreak havoc...you don't digest your food as well, you become lactose intolerant, you get gas after every meal or even snack, you develop a yeast infection, or diarrhea, or constipation...the list goes on and on. So think of it this way -- if your insides contain a lot of putrefactive material, then a person CAN develop a bad odor. (What happens when you dump food into your garbage can and never take it out?) Bacteria break things down and that in turn causes odors.

You asked...'If the smell is caused by built-up toxins, wouldn't the body have started eliminating these toxins even while I was still on the antibiotics?' Well, that would depend on how loaded down with toxins your body was in the first place, as well as what kind of toxins we were talking about, as well as what the body has in it to use as a defense. Are we talking about bacterial toxins, viral toxins, heavy metals, pesticides? The body is constantly bombarded with a myriad of toxins every day. There are organic toxins and there are inorganic toxins. And what if the body happens to be missing a needed nutrient or two, or three, or fifty? How can the body eliminate toxins if it doesn't have whatever it is that it needs to do that with? That's sort of like asking "If I start drinking Chlorox bleach, then why doesn't my body just start eliminating it immediately so I don't get sick?" If the body gets overwhelmed and can't heal, then it can't heal. If a vitamin, or mineral, or essential fatty acid, or some other factor it needs is missing, then if it doesn't get supplied, how will the body get it so it can heal itself?

Do you drink tap water? If so, then you're drinking chlorine, bacteria, viruses, cysts, pesticides, and probably fifty other toxins every day. The body does the best it can to rid itself of junk, but it can only go so far. If the toxin load gets overwhelming, then the body bogs down and gives out. It can't eliminate what it needs to if it's overwhelmed. In short, we take in far more toxins on a daily basis than we do "good stuff".

Regarding your 4/28 post...
It's very likely you have a yeast overgrowth by now, considering the antibiotics you've taken, especially the length of time you were on them, and the fact that your diet hasn't been the best. There's usually a lot of itching in the groin when yeast is the problem, or rectal itching. If a yeast overgrowth IS the culprit, and has been going on for that long a time, I don't think you'll solve your problem simply by taking probiotics. You'll have to go on a specific protocol for quite a while using several things on a rotational basis (Pascalite clay is one of the things involved, but in a special liquid form -- it's too long to explain here). As I said earlier, you have to pull the yeast hyphae out of the colon and move the stuff out of the bowel in order to get rid of yeast, and probiotics aren't going to do that. The yeast will just continue to overwhelm the good bacteria as soon as you put it in.

Sugar and carbohydrate cravings are classic symptoms of a yeast overgrowth, although not everybody who craves sugar or carbohydrates all the time has a yeast infection. If you take MSM daily, you'll find that after about 3 months you won't even think about sugar again. Any cravings you might have for it will just disappear. At least that's been my experience, as well as others who take MSM. I don't know if that's an across-the-board reaction, or whether it just works on some people that way, but it's inexpensive enough from the place I mentioned to try it.

You asked 'why does my body odor smell like human waste'? Because your body is unhealthy. That's the only answer I can give you without a biochemistry degree. It happens. Odors build up and the body gives them off. The odor depends on what the body's trying to get rid of at the moment, or on what's backed up in the body, or what's trapped inside and can't get out. If you were to eat a lot of seaweed, you might find that you start to give off an unmistakable aluminum odor, as well as taste aluminum in your mouth. Seaweed binds metals. Eating a lot of it can cause your body to detox and give off an aluminum odor (the substance being eliminated). If you ever do it and that happens (and I did), you'll find out just how much aluminum your body has trapped from a lifetime of using deodorants and eating food in cans.

In answer to your question 'does yeast have anything to do with body odor'...I've heard that it can. Parasites can also cause body odor. So can liver dysfunction and diabetes. (If you crave sugar, have increased thirst, and urinate constantly, please see your doctor and make sure you don't have diabetes!)

You mentioned you were taking 600 mg of Body Mint but couldn't go to a higher dosage because it was giving you a stomach ache and possibly the runs (although you said the Jarro-Dophilus could have something to do with that). I wasn't aware that chlorophyll could cause stomach aches, but I suppose anything could if someone had an especially sensitive stomach. It shouldn't happen if you take it with food. I never had a problem with chlorophyll causing the runs, either, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. The clay would help in that department. Starting a new probiotic can cause the runs for a while. Stay away from probiotics with maltodextrin (Jarro-Dophilus), FOS, or any sugars for that matter; they just encourage yeast growth. Yeast causes diarrhea in some people and constipation in others, so it's possible that any kind of sugar is a contributing factor for your diarrhea; so would be any refined carbohydrates.

You also said that 600 mg of Body Mint didn't really work. Well, I had to take a total of 800 mg of chlorophyll daily for it to work. If I dropped down to 600 mg, it didn't work. So dosage is everything, and it's different for everybody. All the symptoms you gave in your post describe Leaky Gut/yeast. I have a feeling that if you took digestive enzymes before each meal, probiotics, systemic enzymes, decent vitamin/mineral supplements, chlorophyll, MSM, and Pascalite clay daily, you'd find relief of some major sort. It's not exactly cheap to take all of those things daily, but it's the only way I know of to bolster your digestive tract enough for your body not to have those problems. If you try all those things and get no relief, then I'd suspect a pretty bad yeast overgrowth, in which case I'd suggest you go on the protocol from the folks at www.wholeapproach.com. I'm convinced it's the only program out there that both really works and is also the cheapest for getting rid of chronic yeast.

Antifungals won't solve your problem. Yeast has a tendency to become immune to them quickly. Then the yeast tends to come back worse than before. They ARE necessary, in my opinion, for very severe yeast infections, to get them under control. Once controlled, you get rid of yeast over time by using the protocol I mentioned.

I'm glad to hear that Kirkman's is helping you. I hope you can find relief for your digestive problems just by taking probiotics, but in case they're not enough, then try the supplements I mentioned in addition to them. In my case, some probiotics helped so significantly at first that I thought my problems were over. But over time that turned out not to be the case. Problems that eased up at first became worse later on. I had to go on the protocol I mentioned earlier. Yes, I changed my diet somewhat for a while, although there's no way I could live on the "Candida diet" everybody says you have to go on -- it amounts to eating nothing but meat, water, and salad greens every single day for forever. Way too severe for me. But I did have to drastically curb my intake of refined carbohydrates for quite a while. Sugar was an absolute killer, I couldn't take the smallest amount of it, including fruit. Certain vegetables I couldn't tolerate either (like carrots, they're high in sugar). Nowadays I don't have a problem, but I don't overdo it with anything either. And I take all the above-mentioned supplements daily. By the way, the Oxy-Powder is working great for me now, as long as I take 1 capsule before meals and one at bedtime. I swear the oxygen it gives off is working to clear my system -- I was able to cut down on the chlorophyll I take.

Keep taking the Kirkman's, digestive enzymes, chlorophyll, and a little clay each day and see what happens. Your bowel movements have already improved and will no doubt improve more. I'm sure that whatever smell you've got will disappear in time as you clean your system out. Your biggest advantage is that you're young, so you might bounce back fairly quickly and with a minimum of things you have to take. (It gets harder the older you get.) Keep me posted.

Also, have you heard of the products ThreeLac and Oxygen Elements Plus? Have you tried either (I imagine OEP is similar to the current oxygen supplement you are taking)? I have heard great things about particularly ThreeLac when it comes to dealing with Candida.

Jim06,

Yes, the two-hour wait is a pain. Try taking the Pascalite 1-1/2 hrs away from food/meds...that worked for me. You just have to think about how you’re going to space out your supplements/meds for the day, then follow that plan. A lot of times I’ll bring the clay capsules with me, along with a water bottle, and have to take them in between working or running around shopping. The 'two hours' is a general timeframe all manufacturers of anything tell people...no one knows exactly how each individual's metabolism processes things, so they just say 'wait 2 hours' for everybody. It depends on how long it takes your body to empty out your stomach and get things absorbed and into your bloodstream, and that's a little different for everybody...also depends on what you ate, and how much or how little you ate. You just want to make sure you don't take so much of the Pascalite, or so soon before/after meds/meals, that it interferes with absorption of nutrients. You don’t have to take clay before every meal. You can just take some first thing in the morning, or last thing at night, whichever is more convenient. (Although, if you're trying to stop the diarrhea, you may have to.) The point is to get a little in your body every day. Digestive enzymes taken each time before you eat should (I would think) eliminate the stomach cramps; you might not need the clay except for once a day.

Different people get different results. When I used Pascalite to stop the colitis I took quite a few capsules at a time, probably 6-8 caps, and three to four times a day. You have to experiment to find what works for you. I don't think you'd want to take a whole lot long-term because you don't want to de-mineralize your body and/or dehydrate yourself. That's why you want to drink a lot of water when you're doing that, and taking a trace mineral supplement wouldn't hurt.

Keep in mind the following…Pascalite has some great health benefits. But like any supplement, it’s going to have different effects on different people. It did stop my colitis, and I would think it would work for others, but I can’t guarantee it. It’s just that it’s cheap enough, and has such great benefits besides, that it doesn’t hurt for anyone to try it. It’s certainly far better than taking Imodium, which a lot of doctors will tell you isn’t a great thing to take because it stops peristalsis -- and that means that whatever bad stuff is in your gut is only going to stay in there even longer.

That you’re no longer getting cramps after you eat is a good thing.

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Usually when someone eats just meat they wind up constipated. (Atkins mentions that side effect as one of the problems people might encounter on the Atkins diet. IBS-D people probably wouldn’t have that problem!)

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Brown rice is something people with Candida are supposed to stay away from. (Personally, I could never stand it anyway.) It's a starch, so any starch is something you're supposed to avoid. People who follow macrobiotic diets use it constantly...it's one of the foods that causes your body to start immediately detoxing itself. But if you're one of those who doesn't tolerate vegetables (carbs/starch) very well, then it's not going to be good for your body. You're going to have to experiment for yourself and see what diet works best for you. I know from searching the web that many people cured themselves of IBS by doing exactly what the medical community tells you not to, which is to eat raw vegetables. Ruben Jordan is the most famous proponent of that (www.crohns.net -- you can see his ‘before’ and ‘after’ pictures there). But a raw vegetable diet, along with all the Garden of Life products (Primal Defense et al), is exactly what would kill ME. My body doesn’t do well with lots of carbs/starch/cereal grasses, etc. So you’ll have to experiment.

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Oregano oil…yes, it’s supposed to have anti-yeast/fungal/bacterial/viral effects, but in my opinion it won’t work if you’ve got a LOT of yeast in your bowel…like when you’re first trying to start getting rid of it, because your bowel is totally overwhelmed by it. You have to get the yeast/parasites/pathogenic bacteria, whatever the problem is, out of your bowel FIRST, THEN you can add things like oregano oil, olive leaf extract, etc. later on once the problem is under control. I tried a lot of things for many, many years, oregano oil and olive leaf extract among them. The only thing that worked is the protocol from WholeApproach. Look them up and search their forums to find it (it’s the ‘Attogram/Lahoz Protocol’), then you can see what you’ll have to do. It’s by far the cheapest way to get rid of yeast, and the only one that works as far as I’m concerned. (Dr. Biamonte’s clinic which you can find on the web also puts people on a protocol where you rotate anti-yeast products throughout a year or more, but it’s extremely expensive.) The key is to use three main products which, when mixed together, WILL pull the hyphae out; and to keep rotating things (otherwise the yeast get immune to things you keep using every day).

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About the sweet odor…don’t forget that you’ve got oils in your skin and they can mix with any scent and change it. Ever tried a cologne that smelled great on your friend but smelled completely different on YOU? They say to wait several hours after spraying a department store scent on you to see what it ends up smelling like on YOU several hours later. Scents mix with your body’s oils/smells and the result may smell horrible compared to what the original scent started out like.

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Colonics…yep, been there, done that. I do think they’re beneficial, but they’ve gotten ridiculously expensive. Years ago my ND highly recommended a colonic therapist in my area, so I went. But I think her price is getting out of line. By the time I started going, this person had already increased her $35 charge-per-session to $50. She told me that when you first start out, most people really need between 5 and 10 sessions to get everything cleared out or there’s no point. So I did 10 sessions. She wasn’t lying…it did take that many sessions before the water finally reached the end of the colon! It helped a lot, but didn’t end my problem by a long shot. But I now know that colonics can’t pull the hyphae out of the colon walls, and unless you do that the problem will always quickly build up again. I did go back to this therapist earlier this year just for a general clean-out, and found she now charges $65 per session! I doubt I’ll go again. Unfortunately, people tend to charge what the market will bear vs. what’s really ethical. As soon as alternative therapies came into vogue, all the alternative medicine people increased their prices astronomically. I mean it’s not like these people went to medical school for four years and then had to complete a residency…what they do isn’t rocket science and doesn’t take a genius IQ…so why do they have to charge so much! I wonder if it never occurred to them that if they just charged a reasonable price for their services they’d make up for it by having more clients. I’d certainly go to these people more often if their prices were more reasonable.

A lot of people say that colonics can cure constipation and/or diarrhea. In my case it did nothing for the constipation -- I solved that problem with supplements. But if you have the money for it, it certainly isn’t going to hurt you and, who knows, in your case it might help.

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Inulin…it’s also a FOS, although it’s supposed to be non-digestible. Being a FOS, I would imagine it would also feed yeast. Don’t know much about it.

The ingredients in Kirkman’s (I’m not familiar with their company) look to be very good (one of the few that contain L. plantarum -- the PhD from Baylor told me I should take that). I hope it continues to help you. The die-off you experienced is a good sign in that now you know you need that stuff, because that’s what happens when you have an overload of toxins in your body -- so now you know, at least in part anyway, what your problem is. The bad part is that, yes, you have to watch the amount you take, as you just found out what happens when your body starts purging all that junk! The same thing happens when you take MSM. You have to start out with a very small amount daily for a week, then each week add a small amount more until you get to the dose that works for you. I got my MSM dose up too high several years ago and woke up one morning covered with hives and a red itching/burning rash. Believe me, you don’t want to do that.

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I said chlorophyll helps to oxygenate your body (that’s a little different from being an “oxidizing agent”). Candida is anaerobic.

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I want want to mention something else in regard to the general topic of “food we eat that’s not good for ANYbody”. Regarding all the meat you get from the grocery store…all the meat producers feed cattle/chickens hormones to fatten them up faster, and also feed them antibiotics so they won’t get sick. All those extra hormones and antibiotics end up going into your body when you eat that meat…that also contributes to your body’s toxin load. A lot of people have said for years that’s one reason that’s causing us to be much sicker these days, and I have to agree. (Look up “xenohormones” after your finals are over. Also, check out Dr. Joseph Mercola’s site for general info on alternative healing.)

A couple years ago I started ordering organic beef and I can tell you there’s a drastic difference in the taste and consistency…and my body let me know right away that it loved the stuff. I felt so much better when I ate it vs. meat from the grocery store. But -- you want to talk about expensive! I wish I could order it all the time but it’s just impossible at what it costs. A couple times a year is about all I can afford. I do, however, go to an organic store for most of my produce. Studies have shown that organic produce contains anywhere from 2-4 times the vitamins and minerals of grocery-store produce. Plants take up the chemicals that are sprayed on them in fields. Organic stuff doesn’t have that problem. That’s another thing I love…you just rinse organic stuff off instead of having to wash everything thoroughly like you do to get pesticides off with grocery store stuff. Just thought I’d mention the above. Hope you’re majoring in something that’ll get you a very high-paying job! You need to be rich to stay healthy in this country these days!

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Your Brita filter is fine. Keep using it.

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ThreeLac and Oxygen Elements Plus..I’ve never tried them. I try not to take things that are MLM products (MLMs charge you about 3-4 times what the product is really worth because they have a huge pyramid of people (their distributors) who have to be paid off -- and you’re the one paying for it). I’ve used liquid oxygen drops before and really can’t say I felt they did any good. OEP looks like it’s very good, maybe it IS a better product that the kinds I tried. At least it contains trace minerals. (I tried some oxygen drops once with trace minerals in it…blew my blood pressure sky high.) I know ThreeLac and OEP have tons of great testimonials for them all over the web, but I’m just not convinced. I tried a ton of products like that over the last ten years, and they really didn’t do for me what they said they’d do. I think everybody is deficient in minerals these days, so if you want to try it, it’s probably not going to hurt.

OEP is in no way the same as the Oxy-Powder I’m taking. Liquid drops (like OEP) put very little oxygen in your system, and they don’t specifically clean your gut. Oxy-Powder is one of two oxygen colon cleansers out there (the other is Homozon) that labs have tested and proved that they really do release oxygen in the intestines. Oxy-Powder was shown to release the most (6%). They say it’s also the only thing that actually “melts” away all the solid junk that everyone accumulates in their colons over time. And colonics only clean the large intestine. Oxy-Powder cleans the small intestine also. Whether it does everything the manufacturer says or not, I don’t know. What I do know is that it’s made a huge difference for me, so I’ll definitely keep taking it.

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Yes, you have to wait after taking your probiotics before taking Pascalite. Clay will decrease the action of/absorb whatever it comes into contact with (the same as charcoal will). I just don’t know exactly how long you have to wait. As I said, everybody in the industry gives a general ‘two hours’ for an answer. You should be OK with 1-1/2.

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Finally, as I mentioned earlier, the ONLY way you will ever pull the yeast hyphae out of your gut is to go on the WholeApproach protocol (or you can do Dr. Biamonte’s protocol if your parents are extremely wealthy). Go to their web site and then sign up to get into their forum. Look up the protocol (Attogram/Lahoz Protocol) and you’ll find out what you have to take and for how long. I order all the stuff from them with the exception of the liquid Bentonite emulsion and the Psyllium seed/husk product. I prefer Sonne’s #7 and Sonne’s #9 (you can probably find them in your local health food store -- they’ve been around for decades; I prefer the texture of those products to the Attogram products). It’s not a difficult protocol to stay on at all. And although I did have to stay away from some foods for a while, I didn’t go on the full-blown ‘Candida diet’. It still worked. They say that when you’re done with the protocol, then taking three products (the liquid clay emulsion mixed with Caproyl mixed with Psyllium) daily for one week out of every month every year, you can keep the Candida in check and won’t have any symptoms.

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I’d had excellent results with products from Generation Plus, makers of Zymitol (systemic enzymes), Serralone (a specific enzyme), and Digesticol (digestive enzymes). Check them out also. (WholeApproach sells them except for Serralone.) Unfortunately, when you’re talking enzymes, you’re talking ‘a lot of money’ -- none of them are cheap (from any manufacturer).

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I appreciate your thank you. I just hope I’ve given you some things to think about and to try. Let me know if I missed any of your questions.

One last thing,
I know you mentioned in one of your previous posts that I want Pascalite clay and not Bentonite, is there any reason for that? B/c on the WholeApproach site, they say to use Bentonite, and I've seen other places selling it as well.

THanks again.

Well, school is over and I am back at home now, so if I still smell bad then oh well. I just had the colonic done today, I'm not really sure if it helped. I've had two BM since that were like pure powder. Anyway, I'm hoping that cleaning out some of those toxins and encrusted fecal matter will help with the smell. I am also planning on taking Oxy-Powder to "melt" the stuff out of my small intestine, and MSM which helps with liver detox (from what I've read). Any suggestions on a good powder MSM? I realize now how important it is to keep your insides clean, not just for odor-related reasons, but health reasons as well.

I am really amazed that you can eat breads, pizza, etc. I'm still kind of scared what will happen if I ate that stuff b/c of the gluten, which I'm still leary of. Same goes for dairy. It will be hard for me to get over those fears. Even when I eat fruit my stomach grumbles a bit.

The other thing I was curious about was your view on pH balance and its importance. I've been reading stuff lately that says that an imbalance in pH (usually towards being too acidic) is what allows us to get sick. Our immune can't fight off things like parasites, bacteria, yeast, fungus, etc. when we are too acidic. And then things like yeast thrive in this anaerobic environment and grow, etc. People (i.e. Wolfe Clinic, Dr. Robert O. Young, Andy Long) are saying that to address this, we need to eat more alkaline foods (greens, veggies, fruits), and alkaline minerals help too, to balance our pH. You mentioned you take MSM, which contains sulfur, which I believe is one of the major alkaline minerals, and the pascalite has a good amount of magnesium in there too, another alkaline mineral. Aside from these supplements though, do you adhere to this theory in any way? Also, since yeast and bacteria can't survive in an alkaline, oxidized environment, it's said that once this environment is created in the body, then these things die off (not sure if it applies to systemic and hypae but I imagine it would).

Also how do you feel about coral calcium? I think calcium is another alkaline mineral, and apparently its getting big now, or popular? Coral rather than "regular" b/c it is more absorbable.

While I certainly considered the Attogram protocol, I was just too enticed by all the good things I was reading about ThreeLac and Oxygen Elements Plus. While I know these are not a miracle cure, the fact that they had a microencapsuled probiotic (guaranteeing its deliverance to the intestines) that actually feeds on the yeast just sounded too good to ignore (and the diet wasn't as strict). So I am going to try these products, meanwhile trying to balance my pH and then see what happens. If it fails, then I'll probably try Attograms. At this point I'm looking at speed over effectiveness, which is usually never a good way to go, but I've only got a few weeks, then I start my summer work, and I don't know how much time and effort I'll be able to devote then.

I think if the Oxy-Powder does what it claims, as in it kills off bacteria, yeast etc. by creating a more oxidized environment and "melts" the toxin and mucus off the walls of the intestines (does that include hyphae?) then that should certainly be a huge step forward. And if these organs are cleaned, does that make it easier for things like the liver and stomach to detox themselves or do you need special products to do that?

Thanks again for the advice/help.

Jim06,

As to your 5-12-05 post:
Please be careful with the Oxy-Powder, it’s mainly for people with constipation and might cause you a big problem if you have diarrhea all the time. I would definitely not take the dosage the manufacturer suggests. Try the ‘alternate’ dosing which is to take 1-2 caps (in your case, one) 30 mins before meals. Go sparingly with it, like one capsule before one meal a day, then maybe one capsule before each of two meals. I don’t think Oxy-Powder is going to “melt” hyphae -- those things are tentacles that ‘hook’ in to your bowel lining. No probiotic is going to pull them out either. That’s why it’s so hard to get rid of the stuff once they’ve gotten to that stage. That’s what the “drink” (liquid clay emulsion/Caproyl/Psyllium powder) does -- it turns into a “goo” that spreads out across the bowel, then the Psyllium sort of ‘scrapes’ the lining while the clay pulls the stuff into itself, or so they say.
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On pH balance…good luck with that one. It’s true that an acidic body causes all kinds of disease (so does a body that’s too alkaline), but it’s virtually impossible to get your pH range into the one they recommend and keep it there. There’s a remedy out there called Acid2Alkaline (I think), and they even tell you that it takes 26 capsules of their product to counteract one can of soda -- got that? ONE can of soda. So, unless you plan on never ingesting again any sugar, soda, meat, bread, fried foods, etc., you won’t be able to do it. I’d say that if you have a terrificly oxygenated body and kept it at the perfect pH, then you’d probably solve a myriad of health problems…but in real life it’s just too unrealistic for most of us to do. You will definitely not get your pH into the alkaline range by using those oxygen drops you came across.
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A word of advice because you mentioned a certain clinic in your post (the other names I’m not familiar with) -- keep in mind that a lot of naturopaths/chiropractors are into every MLM scheme there is out there in order to make more money. A lot of naturopaths don’t have enough patients to make them the money they want to earn, so they tend to sell MLM supplements exclusively -- that way they get a kick-back from all those pyramid companies to supplement their incomes with. One of the naturopaths I saw a few times sold NOTHING but MLM stuff and was constantly trying to push me to buy that stuff. I have, in the past, tried some MLM products that were good, but too darned expensive to keep up (there were other things I decided I needed more than them). But I also found that most of them are just a waste of money -- you just don’t get the results all their testimonials say you will. Just be careful about what you buy because you’re going to find that you can easily spend a fortune trying to get well. Clay, chlorophyll, MSM (from where I posted to get it, anyway) is about as cheap as you can get; even the Attogram “clay drink” products aren’t all that expensive, and they last quite a while too. The probiotics and enzymes are “necessities of life” in this day and age as far as I’m concerned, whatever it costs, it costs. We’re sure not getting the same nutrition in our bodies that people got even a couple decades back, plus we’ve got a heck of a lot more pollution and stress to deal with than they did.
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Coral calcium…I tried the famous brand that first came out, can’t remember the name now -- what a waste of money. Did absolutely nothing for me. Maybe it does something for somebody out there, but it wasn’t me. I take a calcium supplement by Metagenics and as long as I take it I’m free of any aching from the crushed bones I suffered several years ago. As soon as I switched to the coral calcium, I started aching like crazy. I went back to the Metagenics brand and within 24 hours the aching was gone. So much for the ‘miracle’ of coral calcium. Don’t spend your money looking for “alkaline” things to take…it just won’t work (read my para again on “pH” above). Besides, there are a ton of alkaline things you can take which the body will turn acidic, and acidic things your body will turn alkaline.
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About your being excited by ThreeLac and Oxygen Elements Plus…keep in mind the fact that there are a GAZILLION distributors of that stuff advertising on the web. Of COURSE you’re going to find a billion sites with glowing testimonials -- that’s how those distributors make money! That’s why you see the stuff everywhere you look on the web! But you’re NOT seeing how many people have tried it and found it DOESN’T do anything for them! So be careful you’re not succumbing to all the advertising hype. MAYBE it might do something for you, but MAYBE you’ll just be wasting your money. The Kirkman’s you have sounds pretty good. If it works for you, then you might want to stick with it. It might not hurt to try the other stuff when your Kirkman’s is about gone, and if you find it works better, then it would make sense to switch. Just be careful what you’re willing to spend your money on. It adds up quickly.

About their ‘microencapsulated probiotic that actually feeds on the yeast’... Jim06, EVERYBODY’S probiotic feeds on yeast! However, if you accumulate a massive amount of yeast (especially if it has morphed into the more virulent fungal form), the yeast will ALWAYS overwhelm the probiotic!

As to their ‘Microencapsulation’…there are tons of probiotics out there that are ‘microencapsulated’ -- it means nothing. An article I read said that studies have shown that many ‘microencapsulated’ probiotics did NOT really reach the intestines. It depends on the company, the way they microencapsulate, and on the strains they use. And your results are going to depend on whether they’re the right strains for you or not. Also, there are lots of things that are going to work for someone with a very MILD yeast problem, but it’s a different story when your body is overwhelmed with it and it’s been there for years. You may be one of those, and you may not.
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If you think you’re going to get rid of yeast in a couple weeks, I hate to be a killjoy, but chances are good that’s not going to happen. (If it does, I’ll be very happy for you!) You just don’t do ANYTHING when it comes to a real health problem in a couple weeks. And once you’ve identified a problem that your body has, you have to make some kind of lifestyle change and KEEP it changed, in order for that problem not to come back. A Natren rep (another probiotic company) I talked to once told me that people have to take their probiotics for at least ONE YEAR to get rid of yeast. But my problem was more severe and required a lot more than just taking a probiotic alone to get over it. I hope it goes faster for you, but I wouldn’t count on being over it that quickly.
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MSM does tons of different things for people, but because everybody is an individual, the results vary by individual as well as by the doseage taken. But it definitely does cause a cleansing to occur (among other things) and you have to be careful about how much you use. It also increases energy level, so you wouldn’t want to take it anywhere close to bedtime. In case your parents have any arthritis aches/pains, you might mention it to them -- many people use MSM to stay completely pain free of arthritis. It’s also famous for getting rid of asthma. The dose varies by individual. I was taking too much for my body to handle a couple years ago, and that’s when I broke out with the rash/hives. I have to take a much smaller dose than most people. You need to start out with a very small amount and build slowly.

MSM comes in two brands, depending on who manufactures it -- Lignisul and Opti-Flake. Either one of those two brands is what you want. But there is, apparently, a lot of ‘fake’ MSM out there (not pure MSM). I’ve also heard a lot of people who sell it on the web are claiming the stuff they sell is “Lignisul” or “Opti-Flake” when it’s not. I know the person at www.msm-msm.com is honest and really does send you the “real” stuff, and he’s also the least expensive seller I’ve found. (MSM is quite inexpensive and one pound lasts a very long time at a small dose.) They have an MSM forum at that site and you should look through there to find out how people are using it. Yes, I take it with Vit C (you have to), but I take a form of C extracted from real food, and is therefore expensive. If you take C, you definitely need to take the Ester-C kind (it’s buffered), because regular Vit C will kill your stomach. Get it from the cheapest source you can find. Please know that prices for just about everything differ wildly depending on who’s selling it -- always search multiple sources before you buy ANYTHING.
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As for your 5-13-post:
I stopped taking the chlorophyll last week and it looks like I may not need to take it anymore because of the Oxy-Powder (periodically my pores would give off a chlorine-like odor). Although, I will still take chlorophyll periodically because it’s just a really good thing for your body to have in it, and I don't eat enough foods that have it.
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Your paragraph about what I take is correct, although I also take chlorella because it binds and eliminates heavy metals (which is a huge problem for me).

About recommendations for a good vitamin/mineral...what I've been taking is excellent, but I can't recommend it for you because I can buy it at half price (something you wouldn't be able to do). It's very expensive because it's all extracted from real food, not synthesized in a laboratory (and if I had to pay full price I wouldn't be able to keep buying it either). However, I'm going to switch to the blood type-specific supplements that Peter D'Adamo developed and try those for a while (see my last couple of paragraphs at the end). If you don't want to try D'Adamo's products, then Vitamin Research Products is a very good company (www.vrp.com); they also have a fairly extensive library of articles on various supplements/conditions that you can search through to find info on many things. However, good vitamins/minerals are also (unfortunately) going to cost you a lot per month.
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If you take Zymitol, start out very slowly. It’s powerful stuff and can cause a huge detox reaction if you take too many capsules at a time. Yes, it contains some MSM, so you might want to skip the separate MSM powder for now and see how Zymitol works for you by itself.

After you’re used to the Zymitol, then you might want to add some separate MSM powder to your diet later on. (Please remember not to put MSM in anything hot -- anything more than about body temp and the sulfur gets destroyed.) When I use it, I just do what everybody else does -- dump it in some water, stir it around a little and drink it down. If you have animals, it’s great for them too. People use it a lot to keep their dogs free of arthritis. I feed a little to our dog every day, and sprinkle a tiny amount in the cats’ food.
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I ordered Peter D’Adamo’s books “Eat Right 4 Your Type” and “Live Right 4 Your Type” (used) last week from some Amazon resellers. After reading “Live Right 4 Your Type” (the other arrives this week), I am absolutely amazed at what I learned. Wish I’d gotten those books a long time ago! (Someone insisted I should read it a few years back and I didn’t listen!) I found so many correlations between my blood type and the health problems he says you’d be most prone to getting! It’s extremely interesting reading, I highly recommend you look into it. The books tell you which foods you need for your blood type and which you need to avoid completely. His supplements are also specific for each blood type, which is why you might want to try them. That way your body will be getting what it needs the most of.

You can find D’Adamo’s website at www.dadamo.com. Click on “The Blood Type Store”, then choose “Product Index”, then look down the left for the “Store” for your blood type and click on it. Under “Foods and Neutraceuticals”, look for his product called Polyflora and you’ll find what probiotic strains he recommends for your blood type. You can also look up the other products he uses for your blood type and read the research articles posted -- it’ll give you good reasons why your type needs those particular things.

I was about to reorder the vitamins I currently take, but I’m going to try his blood type-specific ones instead. I’ve also decided the research about blood types makes it worth trying the diet for my type too. Unfortunately, for me it’s virtually the same as the “Candida diet” -- cutting out anything remotely related to wheat, not to mention all sugar, coffee, and a ton of other things as well as some of my favorite vegetables! Oh well. I’m willing to give it a shot because I know my body gains weight quickly with bread and pasta products, not to mention that, even though I love the stuff, eating them does cut down my energy a lot. I lost 20 pounds on Atkins a couple years ago but a lot of it's crept back on, so I'm going to give this a try and see how it goes.

In case you don't know your blood type, you can order a test from that site to find out (ask your mom, she probably knows); then within that type you also need to know whether you're a secretor or a non-secretor, and there's a test you can order and mail in to find that out too.

Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner. Thought I'd be able to answer you yesterday, but didn't have time to get on the internet then. Ended up overnighting some dogs at our house and then transporting them up to another state this morning -- now I'm so behind on what I needed to get done this weekend and the whole thing's gone already!

Hope I got all your questions!

I just posted on another thread, and I know that you are talking primarily about body odor, but have any of you used a product called "The Drops"? It supposedly removes the foul odor when we go to the bathroom. I am trying to get some feedback before I buy it since it is only sold on the internet. I guess you add these drops to the toilet water before you do your business and it eliminates the smell. Any one know anything about it?

kls,
have you ever tried one of those full body detox regimens? I've found a few online that are like 5 bottles of different stuff that you take for 21-days that help clean the liver, spleen, kidneys, blood, etc. I'm wondering if they are worth it? I'm assuming probably not, but just curious. Don't the systemic enzymes basically take care of this?

I've started taking Zymitol, which I crack open and mix with water. It is not pleasant tasting, but oh well. And I start the Oxy-Powder tomorrow. I'll let you know how that goes and I'll try to go easy with it at first.

has anyone actually been helped by this stuff?

I have a question regarding the Attogram/Lahoz protocol- Whole Approach.  You recomended ordering all the stuff from them with the exception of the Bentonite and the Psyllium seed.  But I noticed from the Whole Approach web site that both probiotics they sell have FOS, which I thought just feeds the candida.  So I'm confused now about whether to order it or not.  

spring_bird,

After being away from this board for quite a while, I just went back today and found your question re: Lahoz Protocol/Attogram products containing FOS. Don't know if you're still on the board, but in case you check back here, here's my answer...

The manufacturer of SBX (the best probiotic I ever found...until now) recently changed the formula. He's now adding FOS and many ingredients which act as metabolic inhibitors for my blood type, so I have since switched to trying another brand. Syntol (which I'm now trying) also contains FOS, but at least it doesn't have the other ingredients that SBX now contains. I've just started Syntol, so don't know whether it's going to "work" for me or not.

Regarding FOS...Unfortunately, just about EVERY probiotic out there contains FOS, a sugar that keeps the probiotics alive. It's almost impossible to find one without it. Dr. D'Adamo (www.dadamo.com) has a brand called Polyflora -- it contains chickory (also a sugar for the probiotics to feed on) instead of FOS, but I don't know the biochemistry of its action so it might be just as bad; it also contains brewer's yeast, which is also something someone with Candida would not want.

Transformation Enzymes makes a product called Plantadophilus. All it contains is L. Plantarum (this is the one the enzyme researcher recommended to me because their other product cotained FOS). You have to take it for quite a while to have an effect, and many people also find they get a large gas build-up after a couple weeks which lasts for about six weeks (or more) (it's the action of the L. plantarum in the gut that produces this reaction while it's trying to repopulate the gut). It's only available by ordering online.

Bottom line for Candida: use Sonne's #7 and #9 (any health food store should have) mixed with Caproyl (WholeApproach.com), then pick a probiotic and try it.

The owner of my health food store and his manager told me the other day that they both religiously use "Jarrowdophilus" (not positive of the name, but it's made by the Jarrow folks)...it's got a decent blend of probiotics in it and is the least expensive of all the brands they sell. They said it was a great all-around probiotic for a relatively "normal" person (ie, as long as you don't have severe Candida problems/leaky gut syndrome, etc.)

kls

Dear Jim06,

I spent 1080 on botox injections in my armpits to stop sweating, and the sweatin subsided, but I began to notice that people were holding their noses around me because I smelled.


I searched and have began to take a product called botisol. I bought it online (www.vigorgen.com/botisol/botisol.htm) and after 2 days I can see a difference. People dont pay attention to me because I smell.

Another product to try is mesosilver colloidal silver.(www.purestcolloids.com/mesosilver.htm) put some in a spray bottle with water, its better than febrez without the smell. You can also use it as a deodorant or injest a teaspoon a day for good health.