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Itching all over, no rash

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Posted 8/8/2007 4:40 AM (GMT 0)
Hi all--

Hope everyone is doing ok.  I have blown it over the last few weeks and exceeded my special weight limit and I guess my liver is acting up.  I don't know.  I'm itching all over with no rash.  It's especially bad after taking a warm bath.  I don't know what is wrong.  It's been going on for a few days and thought it might be laundry soap, but no, and I get some kind of mild rash with that any way.  It might be a reaction to the protopic (rapamune) ointment I use--like elidel-- for my vitiligo.  Maybe I'm absorbing too much or my liver can't handle it.  Of course, in people like me they are supposed to be monitoring my liver function but they are not.  Between this and the sun sensitivity it is awful.  Now when I go outside, it is so hot my skin burns like its hit with a hot iron right when I step outside.  I've been to the rheumie and he ran tests but I havent heard back and don't know what he check me for, I mentioned porphyria per Leta and I think she's on to it as fatty liver is a big part of it, but he looked at me like I was nuts.  I guess I'm going to have to see the liver doc again.  Lately, I just feel like letting everything get really bad so maybe they can figure out what the heck is wrong with me.  I suspect its the ointment and weight gain hard on my liver.  Unfortunately I think I will have to live with my pigment problems and I'm not happy about that.  Any other ideas on this itching?  Why does it start when I get out of the warm tub?  It lasts for a few hours at least.

Posted 8/8/2007 2:05 PM (GMT 0)
Marji - Perhaps let the doctor know. Sometimes liver and kidney issues can cause itching. I itch a lot and yeah, cool bath calms it down, warm bath makes it worse. Had it for months like that now. If you are due for a work-up suggest it to the doctor - just to be on the safe side. If he isn't helpful contact a dermatologist. Skin changes are kind of normal with these type of diseases, so it could be just about anything. The wierder the better. I think it has something to do with inflammation of the skin, but there are different things that can cause this like water retention, allergies, skin flare, etc. How sudden is that weight gain? When I started having edema that is when I stared itching all over. Feet were the worst because of the swelling.

Good luck to you - Kristin
Posted 8/8/2007 2:56 PM (GMT 0)
Marji,

It sounds like this itching is driving you crazy. I know it would me. Have you ever tried a cool bath with an aveno bath product? It's soothing and leaves your skin soft and moisturized. I suppose you have to be extra careful with the products you put on your skin because of your vitiglio.

I'm with Kristin, and would call your doctor and see what he says about this. You need to find out if your kidneys or liver are acting up more than usual.
Posted 8/8/2007 4:12 PM (GMT 0)
Aren't we supposed to drink more water to help out the liver when it gets overwhelmed? Or am I confusing that with the kidneys?
Posted 8/8/2007 5:12 PM (GMT 0)
Gosh Marji, itching is the worse!!! I'm so sorry you are suffering with this. I hope its not your liver acting up and maybe its something less serious. My skin drys out a lot from the Sjogren's stuff so it causes itching, maybe thats whats going on for you too. I agree with everyone else, I think you definitely should call your doc and find out why this is happening. Please keep us updated.

Take Care
Posted 8/8/2007 5:47 PM (GMT 0)
Hi thanks Kris, Des, and Lynnwood, for the suggestions and kind thoughts. I'm a mess right now. In transitition, having hot flashes and crazy stuff. Maybe I can finally get a good diagnosis because I feel like crap. They will probably say it is my liver (except for the liver doc, who will claim it is something else) and they might be right.

I'm a bit strapped now, but I do have some oatmeal that's been up in the cupboard forever that I can use, my mom knows how to do that because I guess that's how you did it before they had Aveeno. The weight gain was very sudden putting on over 5 pounds in a few days, but I've been shifting alot. I have a huge potbelly, that's where all the weight is. I'm on a diuretic and my bp is good. I have a terrible time metabolizing things like burning fat and metabolizing sugars. I know my thyroid is undertreated, my antithyroid antibodies are still at over 500, normal high 60, but they were 1000 till I started taking 75mcg of synthroid. I was on a higher dose but I started getting dizzy and feeling like I was gonna pass out. It was awful and scary. I cant see the new endo until Oct. and she might not be any good so I may be stuck for a while. As for liver, I requested them tested recently and I know they get worse when I gain weight, which then makes it impossible not to gain more weight it seems.

AS for the belly, my docs don't know what it is, one thought it was all fat, my doc says no, there is some fat , but my skin is reallly thick there, could be scar-tissue like, and she thinks a lot of it is water, which is why she put me on the diuretic, but its not hard like ascites, I met many people with ascites in the hospital and their bellies are really hard and the belly button even pops out backwards sometimes. Of course, docs like to wait until things are horrible before they do anything. The other possibility is organomegaly, which I know my liver is bigger that it should be due to all the fat, I don't know about the rest. The synthroid helps it when I get enought but my thyroid is dying and I really think I"m ready for an increase.

The itching starts when I go in the tub or shower. I've tried turning the water down, then it lasts for a long while afterward. I took some phenergen and it helped me enough to get to sleep. In the morning I've been ok, but sometimes it lasts through the next day.

In two days I lost three lbs really cutting carbs and I have just two more. I just can't ever screw up, like eating a small slice of birthday cake or more than one slice of bread. I know this. I screwed up. I'm sorry this is such a ramble, brain not good. Thank you so much for the suggestions and they really help. I'll give the doc a call and at least try to find out how my liver enzymes were and I guess I'm going to have to reschedule with the hepatologist but he won't be happy with me for not losing any weight last time.

Thanks again, you are all really good. One doc said I was decompensating and dying from liver disease but i'm not going to believe that because I can lose weight and be better and that doesn't have to happen. I guess I'm scared. Thanks for your help.
Posted 8/9/2007 1:42 PM (GMT 0)

I definately agree with PattyLatty on this one.  Try Aveeno.

A few years back during the winter (my Lupus was active a the time) I got very very itchy all over my body with no rash.  It always happened right when I got out of the shower or bath.  I even had to miss work some days because I was just sooo itchy.  We switched to a more natural laundry soap and unscented bounce sheets, but that didn't help.  We switched soap and shampoos, but that didn'thelp, either.  Finally we bought a water softener, and that helped a bit.  I went to the docoter, but they only perscribed an antihistamine to me.  The people in the waiting room were staring at me like I was on crack because I just could not stop itching myself!  Althought the antihistamine helped with the itch, it didn't help to PREVENT the itch from happening, nor did the docs tell me why I was so itchy becasue they just didn't know.  I tried using various body lotions thinking my skin was just very dry from the dry Alberta winter, but the only lotion that seemed to help was Aveeno.  So I started using Aveeno lotion as well as Aveeno bath powder in my baths.  I kid you not when I say that Aveeno was my saving grace.  It helped me SO MUCH.  I don't get itchy as often anymore (and I still don't know what causes it, nor do the docs), but whenever I start to feel the itch coming on, I use my Aveeno.

If you want to try Aveeno, use the Soothing Bath Treatment (comes in a box with little pouches of bath powder) and pour it in your bath.  Soak in it for awhile (at least 10mins).  When you get out of the tub, try the Daily Moisturizing Lotion (the green labelled one) NOT the Skin Relief Moisturing Lotion (the blue labelled one) because it has menthol in it and may act as an irritant.  They do have a anti-itch cream but I have never used it (I just stick to what I know, works). 

Hope this helps and I hope you feel better soon.  I know how frustrating this itching can be!!

Take care :)

Posted 8/9/2007 1:54 PM (GMT 0)
I have terrible itching too and I really think it is from the plaquenil or the cymbalta I take. Both are known to cause itching as a side effect. Unfortunately I don't think I can do without either. I am using the aveeno liquid soap with oatmeal for my daily shower and I am using the aveeno lotion when it gets really bad and it seems to settle it down. If I get hot, it gets worse.
Posted 8/9/2007 4:26 PM (GMT 0)
Have they ever ran bloodwork and urine tests for your kidneys? Edema and itching are signs of a possible kidney problem. I have the beer belly and barely eat. It is mostly the top half of my torso that is swelled. Are your feet/legs swelled (or eyes in the morning)? These are signs of fluid retention. Not saying it is the kidney but there are almost no signs for kidney problems. I went to the doctors because of the edema and itching and they ran tests for the kidney. Low and behold, the results were positive for kidney disease. Just a thought, so don't worry too much. I know they checked my liver too as the ER doctor said sometimes the liver and kidney have problems in tandem. My liver actually got better though.

Like you when my lupus acts up, I get multiple hits to my body. It makes it hard to tell what is going on.

Please call your regular doctor, so he can do some preliminary tests. It is really too long to wait for the onocologist. If all the preliminary tests are fine then my guess would be to see the dermatologist. Hope you figure this all out - LOTS OF HUGS - Kristin
Posted 8/9/2007 5:34 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Jen, gloryroad, Kristin, sounds like one way or the other it is part of the package. I'll have to get some Aveeno on Friday. Our water is very soft but right now we've had a lot of rain and I do have a well, though a very deep one, and the water is really soft, but maybe there is another problem with it besides softness that something like a water softener or even a carbon filter might fix. Something to save up for. Maybe I will have the bf dump a bottle of bleach down it, we should once in a while anyway.

As for itching like you are on crack, I laughed so hard because that's just what it's like. Lotion does seem to help, I've been using skin milk, which has some calcium in it which is supposed to be good for my vitiligo and it is mild, but I will have to try the aveeno lotions. My derm says cetaphil but Ibet its very expensive and the ingredients are mainly the same as many other lotions minus fragrance and other possible irritants, mainly just glycerine and mineral oil.

I remember reading something about this in the Merck Manual and I think there is a name for it, or it is related to a specific condition, I will have to try to find it.

As for kidneys, I had my first problems when I was four, unexplained, and I've been griping about that for a few years now. I have this chronic bladder problem where I feel like I have a UTI but don't have one and its basically inflammation being caused by my immune system I guess. My kidneys also hurt, sometimes badly, but cat scan showed nothing. My ankles swell, my feet not so much, but the upper half of my body is puffy and eyes as well. Its hard to tell if its endocrine or water or liver. My primary care doc is always worried about trying to keep the water going out of me, I'm on a diuretic, and I have problems with electrolytes sometimes and strange things like not urinating for three days and having to be cathed or drinking gallons of water and having excessive thirst. Fortunately, this has gone away since I've been staying out of the sun, now that I think of it. Can sun sensitivity cause such things? I always have some protein in my urine but they just say its normal and not a big deal, guess it isn't bad enough.

Thanks again for all your help. If I find the name in the Merck manual, I will post it here. I hope we all stop itching. I swear this illness just constantly surprises you, in not a good way, with all the different problems it causes.
Posted 8/9/2007 5:53 PM (GMT 0)
I found this on medscape:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/460232

The physical form of urticaria described in this question is cholinergic urticaria. This occurs in approximately 15% of people at some time during their lives. Cholinergic urticaria is a physical urticaria. It is most common in teenagers and young adults. It carries a very good prognosis for eventual improvement. about half of the patients who experience this have other allergic illnesses. There are characteristically itchy, small, red papules that occur when heat stimulus is applied to the skin. It is caused by activation of cholinergic sympathetic intervention to the sweat glands and it often subsides in minutes after the patient cools. The occasional patient may also have chest symptoms associated with this condition.

I don't have any papules so I don't know if this is exactly what is wrong but otherwise sounds pretty close.
Posted 8/9/2007 6:15 PM (GMT 0)
Hi again, I found the part in the Merck Manual that I read about itching after bathing under polycythemia vera. My grandmother had that along with her liver issues, I take after her. It is from having too many red blood cells, your hematocrit is high and also from lung and heart disease, when your lungs and heart cause you not to have enough oxygen so the bone marrow reacts by producing more red blood cells to compensate and I guess the whole thing spirals. I'm going to call the doc today because I take after my grandmother and my hematocrit has been high in the past and I have COPD and unexplained hypoxemia. I wish they would just run all the tests and diagnose these things so I don't worry. Thanks again for your help and this is another cause, bad cause, of itching after bathing, so I guess the doc above doesn't know everything. In this case, there is no rash. Also with liver and kidneys no rash.
Posted 8/9/2007 6:58 PM (GMT 0)
Marji, I hope the doctor will help you diagnose your problem with itching. It sounds like you've come up with a logical answer.
Posted 8/10/2007 8:40 PM (GMT 0)
Itching is the worst. I use ice packs and cool or cold baths it really helps. I am not a small girl up top and I am scared from the itching. I have ice packs that I use for it and it helps out ALOT  Some nights I have up to 4 or more on at a time. I also wear very loose clothing and very little when at home. Every one knows to call ahead of time when coming over or watch my girls dance around.

      good luck  

Posted 8/11/2007 3:49 AM (GMT 0)

Thanks Tink, Pat

I called the rheumatologist and they think it may just be a side effect from the plaquenil.  They said my liver enzymes were normal for like the first time this last June, but they could have changed since I gained weight since then.  I'm hoping for the best.  I rescheduled with the hepatologist and am taking phenergen for nausea anyway and that stops the itching enough I can not scratch.  Got the oatmeal stuff but have been afraid to take another bath after the last one!  I think it may also have to do with my vitiligo, it itches when it spreads and though it sometimes seems like it is filling in, it seems to be taking melanin from adjoining areas, so its sort of moving around.  Who knows.  Probably is the plaquenil, I take 400mg, 200mg didn't do anything for me. 

I know what you mean tink because my back and shoulders are so bad and I have scoliosis between my shoulders that is pretty sharp turn, I have clothing strategies so I don't have to wear the over the shoulder boulder holder.  I've been offered a reduction but don't want more surgery and really its one of my few remaining assets and it offsets my huge 9 month pregnant looking belly.  I don't really have to worry about droop because they just rest on my swollen stomach. 

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