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has anyone healed bart with jernigan's protocol

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Posted 10/13/2008 11:04 PM (GMT 0)
i am in kc with dr. r and she wants to do heavy duty vancomycin i.v.'s for my bart which i do not want to do.

any luck with with bart and jernigan's protocol or any protocol besides antibiotics.

hiker53

Posted 10/14/2008 12:26 AM (GMT 0)
Hi hiker53,

The thing about Dr. Jernigan's protocol is it's alot of work and requires extreme discipline.   This is not a protocol for people who are just looking to take some herbs or swallow some pills, etc.

Dr. J's protocol looks at the big picture, just not the bacteria's.  He addresses the body, mind and spirit.   The ultimate goal is to restore the body back to where it was before one got sick, hence his protocol does address all the coinfections because one is not only killing the bacteria's and viruses, but about building up one's immune system which in turn, makes the body stronger.    And that also requires heavy detoxing on a daily basis.  It's almost like a strict diet, one must follow it every day faithfully, have a positive attitude, embrace this protocol (almost like having blind faith).  

At the same time, a person needs to look at their emotional problems and start dealing with them as well.   I believe Wacko Woman (aka Jeanne) said it best:  We are like an orchestra: if one chord is out of sync, then one does not get better, it's about making all the strings of an orchestra play in harmony again.   Dr. J's protocol is putting all the pieces of a person's life and illness back together again.   Not just the bacteria's, but looking at a person as a whole. 

If a person is angry and bitter, that will delay healing.   I had to learn to deal with the stressors in my life in order to get better and that was so hard for me as I had no support system except for the forums.   My family didn't believe in lyme, my friends thought I was depressed, doctor's thought it was all in my head, you know the story... 

I said this before and here it goes again, LOL!   Be a risk taker and try something new.  If that doesn't work, you can always go back to your old protocol.  Antibiotics will be around forever..     Have you bought Dr. J's new book?  You will find all the answers there.  He is one amazing doctor! 

I hope that helps,

Denise

Posted 10/14/2008 12:50 AM (GMT 0)
Hiker53,

I bumped up the thread Wacko Woman because I think it answers in detail your question about Dr. Jernigan's treatment . You might have read the thread already but I didn't see you post on it, so just in case I bumped it up.

I cannot really say anything that Denise didn't already say. All co-infections are addressed and treated. It is about going after the Lymes and building the body up. That is the key, to help get our bodies strong enough to do the job they were meant to do.

Be Well,
Wacko Woman
Posted 10/14/2008 5:51 AM (GMT 0)

I have to disagree with Dr J's proto for Bartonella.  I have not heard of anyone curing Bart (BLO) compeletely...who tested positive for it.  The only Doc who states that he can and has in some people is Dr Zhang. 

I agree that a detoxification diet and detoxing is important...as I am about to start.  If I were trying to sell someone on the fact that Dr J's proto was able to cure BLO...I wouldnt hold my breath. 

I havent posted much in a while...but while I have been off I have talked to the leading Dr on Bartonella who has a DNA smear of the demon, many others who are influential in the Lyme community and there is no cure.  If Dr J has a something that will break up the biofilm that is causing this problem, then he will win the NOBEL PRIZE.

Hiker- does your doctor undertand what Vanomycin IV can do to a person?

Posted 10/14/2008 11:58 AM (GMT 0)

Morning Snake,

I feel that you are missing the point as far as Dr. J's protocol.   It's not about going after one coinfection, it's about going after all the coinfections.   In order to truly understand this protocol, I feel one must read his book. 

Have you read his new book?   If not, then how can you possibly disagree? 

Also, no one is ever "cured" of anything.   Everyone has bad bacteria's in their bodies just as we have good bacteria's.   There are so many people walking around with deadly bacteria's but never get sick or show any symptoms.   Why do you think that is?  It's because their immune system is so strong and healthy that their body kills these bacteria's naturally. 

2 summers ago I had a tick attached inside my belly button.  Did I develop any symptoms?  Nope.  

Hope this sheds some light on your views,

Denise  wink

Posted 10/14/2008 1:31 PM (GMT 0)
Hiker 53:
email me if you want, I have experience with Dr. R in KC and Dr. J in Wichita:
[email protected]
Posted 10/14/2008 1:38 PM (GMT 0)

Deejavu said...

Morning Snake,

I feel that you are missing the point as far as Dr. J's protocol.   It's not about going after one coinfection, it's about going after all the coinfections.   In order to truly understand this protocol, I feel one must read his book. 

Have you read his new book?   If not, then how can you possibly disagree? 

Also, no one is ever "cured" of anything.   Everyone has bad bacteria's in their bodies just as we have good bacteria's.   There are so many people walking around with deadly bacteria's but never get sick or show any symptoms.   Why do you think that is?  It's because their immune system is so strong and healthy that their body kills these bacteria's naturally. 

2 summers ago I had a tick attached inside my belly button.  Did I develop any symptoms?  Nope.  

Hope this sheds some light on your views,

Denise  wink

Morning Denise,

I havent read his new book and I guess I should apologize.  I disagree about being cured.  The DNA of any organism can leave the body if killed completely.  We live with many bacteria's in our body, but most aren't deadly.  Malaria...for instance, you have to eradicate it completely or it can recur.  Not everyone gets these serious pathogens in their body.  People walk around with problems and manifest differently, but certain types of pathogens are for "real" and can kill no matter how strong the immune system is.  If you go to an Endemic-Malaria region and have just received stem cells...you still have a chance of getting Malaria.  I am not trying to be ridiculous, but I am 28...I was a college athlete, could lift over 300lbs on bench press...ate right, now I am sick.  My Mom is still symptomatic at times and she did a 90% raw diet (enemas, immune enhancers)  3+ years. 

My point is this and I may give Dr J's book a try, but this BLO is different...very different.  My Doctor (Dr F) has just defined this creature and has the creature's DNA makeup on file now.  It will be announced soon.  Why can people eradicate Babesia, Ehrlichia, Lyme, Mycoplasma...stop viruses, cure Malaria...but not any well known doctor has had a case where they have cured BLO without a relapse. 

If Dr J really can suppress the demon and stop it, he will become a very rich man.  Because everyone in the Lyme community will be going to his practice and learning how he does it. 

Thanks for the encouragement and hope of getting better.  I do agree with you about the immune system.  I hope we all can get better one day.  None of us know what tommorrow will bring.  My goal from this is to learn to "walk by faith, not by sight."  (2 Cor. 5:7)

Have a great day!

Posted 10/14/2008 7:00 PM (GMT 0)
Hi snake1979.  Email me when you get a chance. 
Posted 10/14/2008 8:36 PM (GMT 0)

If there is no cure for the Bartonella like organism I might as well give up now.  I am in big trouble as this is the only thing that has been found.

I have an infection in my urethral glands that the doctors can't identify and can't get rid of.

If Dr. F has the DNA when will he tell us what the organism is - is it like a mycoplasma or is it like Bartonella?.  I think there are alot of people in a situation similar to mine who have been diagnosed with chronic prostatitis or Interstitial Cystitis and they are taking antibiotics for Bartonella in the hope of eradicating this organism.  If they are wasting their time then he should let them know.

- sorry, just feeling very fed up today! - Louise

Posted 10/15/2008 12:29 AM (GMT 0)
Snake,

Just out of curiosity, where did Dr. Jernigan make the claim that he can totally eradicate bartonella from the body? I have not read that anywhere and I read his entire book and I have had spoken to him as well. While his protocols do target harmful organisms It is my perception that the main focus is boosting the body's capability to fight off harmful organisms and regain balance.

Bottom line, every doctor has a different outlook on this illness and how to treat it. The people on this board have all suffered for a long time and everyone is very frustrated and warn down. Understandable. But....I think we all have a tendency to get defensive and often argumentative with one another regarding treatment protocols. I have been guilty of this myself. We all want to believe that what we are doing personally, in our protocols, is the answer, especially with the time and money involved. I think that if we can all step back and take in the benefits of all the different protocols rather than arguing about them and being skeptical then we will all be better off. We are all in this together and we are all going to get well in different ways. I have cut and pasted several different clips of information from your posts and emails that I feel will be beneficial to me in my own journey.

I think you are on a great path and I'm sure you will find your way back to wellness one day soon. I think very highly of the Zhang protocol and thing your plan to do the juicing is awesome. I'm sure you will see much benefit from it.

I hope Dr. F. shares is latest findings regarding bartonella DNA soon. I'm sure this will be a great breakthrough. Meanwhile we all need to continue to do what feels best for us each day and face tomorrow when it comes.

Please keep us all updated on your progress with your current protocol.

Oh, one more thing....I don't know of anybody, here on the boards or elsewhere, that has been "cured" of bartonella with the Zhang protocol. That is not saying that there are not any; but I'm almost positive that all those in remission with the Zhang protocol where only dealing with lyme, babesia, and or erlichiosis....Again, I'm not positive about. The only person that said it could "cure" bartonella was Zhang himself. Schaller mentioned it in his book as being the best possibility but at like 15-16 capsules a day. Who could afford that? And he also said, that he wasn't totally sure it was a for sure cure. I know many people with bartonella that have been doing the Zhang protocol for a long time now but they are still testing positive for bartonella. Again, I'm not negating the Zhang protocol, heck...I use it myself...I'm just putting some thoughts out there on the table.

Hiker,

I don't know what to tell you about he IV vancomycin with Dr. R????? All I can say is that I would proceed with caution. It is a very powerful and dangerous drug. A good friend of mine did IV vancomycin with Dr. Ryser for 8 months and she is still not well!!! I have also been treating with Dr. R since Jan 06 (including IV's) and here I am still in this battle. I'm not telling you not to do it, I'm just advising you to make an educated decision.

My best to all,

Runningirl
Posted 10/15/2008 2:36 AM (GMT 0)
I have yet to discuss the long term effects of vancomycin with Dr. R, yet, although today she said most people tolerate it well if they start breaking down calcium biofilm around the bartonella and use heparin or lumbrokinase plus a protease.  I believe she also uses glutathione pushes for herxes, but as I do not live in KC, I would find it hard to do the glutathione where I am from and I have not had good experiences with antibiotics in general.

I notice jernigan has a new product for bart, but it has ginger in it and I am allergic to that, so that rules out that particular product. 

I just know I need to stop the bart or I will no longer be able to teach (I am sure Runninggirl can relate to that) and I would lose my job permamently--argh.

I certainly do not mind the effort that goes into getting well--mindset, detox, etc.  I would love to return to my normal athletic self without seizures or a walking stick and I want to keep teaching. 

Thanks for your responses.  Blessings.

Hiker53

 

Posted 10/15/2008 3:14 AM (GMT 0)
Hiker,

what grade do you teach? How are you going to take time off from teaching to do IV's with Dr. Ryser. She only does IV's in her clinic. I had to move to KC for 4 months. Also, are you tenured where you teach? Because if you are, by law (under the Family Medical Leave Act) they have to allow you up to 12 weeks off per years. Actually, you don't even have to be tenured to receive this benefit. Granted, you don't get paid unless you have enough sick time banked but....they can't fire you either.

I agree, teaching with this illness is NOT easy and some days it is nearly impossible!!!! I'm not sure how I do it many days, to be quite honest. I guess I've learned to "fake it till I make it"....no other choice. Until this illness takes me down to the floor I will continue to press on.

What have you been doing to treat the bartonella?

-Runningirl
Posted 10/15/2008 4:31 AM (GMT 0)
Ticker - I will email you...what is your email address?

Runin - I am not upset at anyone or anything...except Bartonella.  I just have a problem the word "cure".  I dont care how strong the body is...this Bartonella turns off the immune system-it activate NF-kB and then regulates the immune response.  It is also able to inhibit the death of endothlieal cells(vascular surface cells), which gives it a place to hide and cause  "Massive" inflammation.  I get upset because I was very strong and this apparently has been working on me for 3 years now and only been on meds for 6 months.  If the medical (LYME) community dont get together about this infection, we can all hang it up. 

I am not trying to be discouraging to anyone, I am one of the most upbeat and positive people I know.  This Biaxin is about to kill me, along with the Zhang Proto and I have just been pushed to the edge with some of these protocols.  Myself and a few others believe that biofilms are the major factor in the issue.  I would love to go and see Dr J. and so would many others...but the cost is enormous$$$!  You have to be "wealthy"...not "rich" to go and get well? Dr Z said he can cure BLO, not me.  I believe in his proto because it is infection killing and immune enhancing and it works.   It is the most cost effective treatment out there, besides antibiotics-which do not address the immune system.  I agree that I need more, but I have only been on HH for 3 weeks and it is really tough. 

I am through for a while.  I wish everyone the best.  There will be a cure...soon.  This is getting way too much attention.

Posted 10/15/2008 11:53 AM (GMT 0)

I do not understand why this KC doctor requires people to relocate there for IV treatment.  This is insanely expensive, and it is not necessary.  IV treatments can be done at home, in most cases by the patient.  Insurance often covers the cost or part of the cost of medication, so I see no reason to pay for all of this expense.  When you add on relocation and living expenses plus the stress of it all, it is a very high price to pay.

I recommend that people who are considering seeing this doctor consider other options.  

Posted 10/15/2008 11:53 AM (GMT 0)
snake1979, my email address is [email protected]

 

Posted 10/15/2008 2:42 PM (GMT 0)
I have had three Fry tests identified with BLO, I've been treated for Lyme and I am just plain frustrated and I know the docs are too. Frustrated with the lack of attention to the disease, the politics, the insurance company denials, the expense for the treatment, the loss of work and retirement savings, the round and round of all the treatments, supplements, the lack of research money, shall I go on?

Something has changed my endocrine system so badly and nothing I have tried has allowed it to heal. I'm in pain 24/7, I can't sleep so I'm always in a state of fatigue, I can't exercise, have much of a social life and I'm frustrated to no end.

I'm also being told more heavy duty IVs and then conflicting advice by the alternative doctors that say more abx just makes the bugs left stronger, you've got to build the immune system. I don't think it is just that simple, build the immune system when this infection has damaged so many part of the endocrine system. What exactly does one do to build the immune system that works and not have to go to a clinic and spend tens of thousands of dollars?

I believe the Lyme docs are more in a position to really understand the nastiness of this BLO infection. They see this everyday. I feel I've done my round of IVs, picc lines, etc, but as time passes the doctors are learning more and more so what do you do? Follow it? Don't know. I'm tired of being a guinea pig!

Vancomycin, scary but if one where to do an IV drug like this I'd want to be in a facility where I know my symptoms and side effects are closely monitored and a hospital nearby. I think home IVs are a scary proposition but desperation abounds with this disease and we feel backed in a corner trying different things to get well. And as far as insurance covering cost, forget it, I have good insurance and they follow IDSA guidelines.

DVMs know the cats and dogs still have BLO after abx too.

Frustrated indeed!
Posted 10/15/2008 3:59 PM (GMT 0)

Runninggirl,

Dr. R told me I did not have to move to kc for her to monitor the i.v's.  I teach jr. high science and the way our school system works in Illinois is after you have used up the 12 weeks and if you are out of sick days your are fired.  I am about at that point.

Do you think the i.v.'s with Dr. R helped?  do you have bart?  What was your treatment protocol with her? 

Hiker53

Posted 10/15/2008 8:59 PM (GMT 0)
Hiker,

That must be something new that Dr. Ryser is doing, because I have never heard of her allowing patients to do IV's from home. I did IV's with her in KC for 4 months. Am I better? Well...if I were I would most likely not be here is Wichita with Dr. Jernigan still looking for answers. Yes the IV's helped followed my years or orals but I'm still not better. I has a long period of time where I was very high functioning but then within months of coming off the antibiotics my body crashed and I relapsed. For me, I think antibiotics acted like a band aid. It did not get to the root of the problem. So, it is really hard to say.

I also teach in Illinois. I have never heard of the getting fired thing after the 12 week family medical leave act time....if one is tenured. If it goes longer than 12 weeks then it goes into long-term disability. Perhaps it differs from district to district. I don't know. But.....I have to be honest, I don't know how one would work while going through IV's...they are very hard on the body. I could not have done it but perhaps you are different.

where in Illinois do you teach?

You can call me if you'd like:

316-689-8000 #112

-Runningirl
Posted 10/15/2008 11:31 PM (GMT 0)
Runin - I am sorry you are having such a difficult time. Hang in there. Have you ever tried Garlic supplementation and do you take things for circulation (cayenne pepper...etc)?
Posted 10/16/2008 7:28 PM (GMT 0)

Runninggirl:

I stand corrected on I.V.'s and Dr. R.  She told me that I would have to relocate to KC for the I.V. treatment, but not for orals.  I do not intend to relocate as my whole support system is here (Normal, IL) and my elderly parents are a hour away.

I did get ticked at Dr. R for several reasons.  I asked her to tell me exactly what tests she was running and she ran a whole bunch extra that I just had run this summer.  She also will not mail the results before we have a phone conference and that is not until December 23.  I wanted the results beforehand to be able to ask intelligent questions.

When I asked how she breaks up the biofilm for bartonella, she refused to tell me saying I might take it to another doctor.  I thought that was ridiculous, so I doubt I will pursue treatment with her.

What I.V's did you have with Dr. R?  Do you have bart?  How did she break up the biofilm?

When I meant I would lose my job, I would lose the job, but be on disability, which does not pay much at all and I still have 10 years before retirement.  The retirement disability would be much much less than if I could work 10 more years and retire with 35 years in.

I did do 3 months of I.V. while working--not easy, but after the first 2 months of sitting home, I was going crazy and we cut down the number of times I infused per day, so I went back to work.  Took a year off 2 years ago, though and am very short on sick days.

Let me know how your trip to Jernigan's works out. Hiker53


Posted 10/16/2008 7:34 PM (GMT 0)
I am confused.  Dr. R said that antibiotics do not cause germ resistance or hurt the immune system.  I am not sure I buy into that, though.  Any thoughts?  Hiker53

Posted 11/21/2012 5:30 PM (GMT 0)
Just reading this now...in response to hiker 53 who was told by Dr. R that antibiotics do not cause germ resistance or hurt the immune system.. well sort of yes in both cases. Antibiotics only target bacterial cells, hence prokaryotes not eukaryotes (us). They may also, however, target the good beneficial bacteria that make our immune systems stronger - so i believe that yes - they can lower the immune system but not by hurting our cells.

In response to antibiotics causing germ resistance - it is highly dependent on the diversity and replication speed of the bacteria involved. For instance, the spirochetes are very slow producing - therefore the mutation rate is also expected to be much slower. For something like E. Coli or S. Aureus - they replicate very fast and the mutation rate is therefore faster, chances would be higher that there would be a mutation enabling resistance to an antibiotic. Much, much less likely with a slow growing bacteria that antibiotic resistance would be an issue.

Posted 11/21/2012 10:49 PM (GMT 0)
Opugirl, this is a very old thread from 2008. Hiker53 hasn't been on since the middle of '09.

Although I would like to thank you for that wonderful explanation that all can read now!!
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