Need help with Igenex results

Hi, I was hoping I could post my IgeneX test results on this forum, as I don't completely understand them and have some questions. It appears, however, that it is negative.

First off, the titer came back at 1:40, which is considered "indeterminate." Greater than 1:80 is considered positive. I don't really understand what indeterminate means though, if 1:80 is positive and my value is quite a bit less than that???

So for the IGM...
All bands were negative except for the **41 kDa, which is indeterminate. So this is considered negative.

For the IGG...
Again, everything is negative except the double starred 31 band, which is Indeterminate. Also, the double starred 41 band is positive in this test.

I am just wondering what this means. The test results that say one double starred positive band may be of clinical significance. Yet it says that two double starred bands are required to be a positive result. So I am just wondering if my results are definitely negative, or if that one positive could be of clinical significance??

Why would same band appear as indeterminate in one test then positive in another test?What could this indicate? Do these tests detect other possible infections as well?

For the people on here who have been diagnosed with lyme, did you meet the required two double starred bands, or the required five bands total for your diagnosis from the IgeneX test?

I hope it is okay that I am posting personal test results. I don't mean to break any rules if that is the case. I am just pretty confused by all this, and because I know that testing is so sensitive anyway, just want to make sure I don't rule out lyme unnecessarily.

Thanks!!!

hi susan, thank you.
i have done some reading on what my results may indicate, and it just seems very confusing to me. i am especially confused that band 31 came up indeterminate on the Igg test. it seems that it being negative or positive would make me having lyme's negative or positive, so this indeterminate is really throwing me off. does indeterminate usually mean negative? or does mean that it's possible that the antibodies are there? i am very confused. i have also read a lot of varying comments on the band 41. it seems many people were declared positive for lyme's with just this result and their symptoms. i have also read that a lot of people may test false positive for band 41. but it also seems that there is a difference between igm and igg, that i don't quite understand yet, but that perhaps more people who don't have lyme's would only test false positive on the igm report, which mine was on the igg.

anyways, i am not sure what to make of this. i do know that my symptoms seem like some kind of infectious or viral process. i got sick immediately after being in africa. but i don't have any of the "main" diseases one thinks of after being somewhere like africa, like malaria, etc. i am seeing an infectious disease doc who specializes in chronic fatigue syndrome at stanford, who said i sound a lot like his patients. the only thing is that i don't really suffer from fatigue. plus, i have for the last two years have constantly fluctuating lymph nodes. i went to see an endocrinologist last tuesday, who did an ultrasound of my neck to look for the lymph nodes. she saw nothing. thought i was crazy because i was telling her about how huge they can get. but of course, they were not swollen at all that day. two days later i met with the infectious disease doc who clearly felt three of the nodes quite enlarged. this has been happening for two years --- and does not seem normal to me unless there was some kind of infection my body is trying to fight off. i also have had the swollen joints and very stiff neck, which are not characteristic of some of these "syndromes" i have been diagnosed with.

so i am at a loss.

also, i am wondering one more thing if anyone may help. i was bit by a tick in africa, which was embedded for four days. there are studies out there about lyme's disease existing in west africa, in senegal, in a village not too far from my own in the country just north of senegal. it seems that the western blot lyme's tests are looking for species-specific bands. i am wondering if perhaps this species would not be included in that test, if that is what i might have??? i know it is a different species from what we have here. is it possible that my band 41 would come back positive, but not the species specific ones because i may have another form??

i would so greatly appreciate any insight. i am working with a huge team of docs at stanford right now to figure out what is wrong with me, and i can't afford to just go see one of these really expensive lyme docs if it is impropable that i have it.

thank you so much!!!

IGM means the exposure is "new" (meaning recent) and IGG means the exposure is "old." (exisiting)That is how it was explained to me. I faxed my Igenex to Dr. C in MO and he said that he believed I had Lyme because of the positive 41. Of course, my doctor here does NOT agreee, so I dont know what I gained and I am with you Gracie, the confusion makes my head spin.  D

Hi Gracie,

this all is such a detective work, so confusing;

I read in an article form Burrascano about testing and pos/ neg results that the spirocetes are able to hide themselves not only in tissues after having left the bloodstreams but are also able to build kind of "proteinwall" around them; with this protection measure the immunesystem (our t-cells / killercells) can not detect the antigenes on the spirocetes and therefore are unable to produce antibodies; they just outwit our immune system. BUT the spirocetes do not stay under that kind of "protection cover" forever ( they come out again to make temselves comfortable in our bodies and start getting more...) therefore you may not test positive even though you have Lyme as well as one may get tested positive after or with treatment, besides the assumption that a test can also be negative because the immune system was too week to produce antibodies.

I do not know anything about the bands you are testing for in the states; I only have this text from Burrascano in front of me, translated into German; it is said there (with reference to westrnblod) that the 41 kD-stain appears at first and that there may be possible cross reactions with Treponema pallidum and other spirocete species; maybe you can couter check this and get more infos that may be relevant to your case.

Yeah, I think its possible that the test you got done is not able to detect the antibodies you may have developed form that species in west Africa;
I don´t know if all this is of any help to you.

I keep my fingers crossed that you will get better soon!!! greetings, dorit

Gracie: I had four IND and two positives, the two positives being bands 30 and 41. And like I said before, I was told 41 is indicative on Lyme. Fry Lab also said I was positive for bart and ehrlichia but then the doctor that ordered the lab at Frys decided he didnt trust their results. So about a million dollars later, I still dont have a clue. No, I did not do antibiotics because I am immune-compromised, THAT we are sure of, via testing. I had a severe toxic mold exposure. So, I am eating healthy (all organic) and taking some supplements and am looking for a place to move with a sauna available. In all these years of testing and I have done MANY (Igenenx, Fry, Bowen) I still dont know if I have Lyme or not. All this came up after my dog died from Lyme. So, I am not sure how to help with a diagnosis, but I understand your frustration, for sure.   D

thank you guys.
dowa, i am sorry you cannot get answers. it is very frustrating. have you noticed improvement through the course of your illness? how long have you been sick? do you have any other diagnoses?
i will request the gamma globulin test. i am quite sure that i have an infection or virus of some kind.

dorit, i do agree that is what indeterminate means. however, it still doesn't make sense to me. if it is even a faint line, that is still something right? there is either nothing or something. that something might not be the really bright line that others have, but what does it mean? i am curious if a lot of people without lyme might also have that line. if that is why it is considered to be indeterminate.

thank you guys so much for your suggestions.

I am currently suffering from ADD (I swear I had it before my TBI so I can't blame the illness) so I can't get myself to read every little thing on the previous posts. So if I restate anything just ignore.

You seemed to ask why it could be labeled as ind.

It is my assumption and I read somewhere but please don't ask where-I don't remember.


That the western blot is read by a technician. They have a set darkness each band gets. So the darker the band the higher the # and more the *. Since it is done by a human eye, if a band shows up but is not dark enough to equal their 1 they label it ind. Something showed but not dark enough to be a 1. I would even assume a computer could label with #'s too and discern whether the band should be ind. Anyway too, I think when a tech does it, it could be read differently than if a different tech were to read it. It is kind of one of those things like if you have a term paper graded by one teacher and then another teacher they may be graded differently. People perceive things differently.

Another thing, I thought someone on here said that 41 can also be from bartonella. And bart is all over the world too. Especially in poorer areas.

I have to put my 2 cents in (tho it may be only worth 1 cent). I hate titer tests done on immune compromised people. Titers measure the antibodies you have for a certain germ. If your immune system is shut down, how do they expect you to be making antibodies. I JUST DON'T KNOW. This frustrates me.

Hi gracetiger.  What exactly is the titer test you had done that has 1:40 as the result?

As Gracie's Mom posted, the IgM Western Blot shows a more recent infection and the IgG a longer-standing one.  Band 41 is often the first band to show, and band 31 is a Lyme-specific band.  No test is completley reliable, and some people who have Lyme do not test positive.  Were you tested for the co-infections Babesiosis, Ehrlichiosis (HME & HGE), Bartonella, and Mycoplasma?  This is important.

When Lyme disease is a possibility, I believe the most important thing you can do is see a knowledgeable doctor.  If you need a recommendation, feel free to email me.