Hansa Clinic in Witchita for Lyme

Hi Bea again,

I have no idea what kind of energy medicine you are talking about and I am familiar with most of Dr. J's botanicals and treatment plans.

Seibertneurolyme said...
Deejavu,

When hubby was admitted to the psych ward Dr J suggested I consult the Scientologists -- he said they might be able to help get him discharged quicker as there was nothing he could do to help with that. Supposedly a prior patient had had success with this I think.

Any of the other details I posted can be verified by prior posts on LymeNet. I posted a very long summary of hubby's illness when I joined LymeNet. Will post that link when I find it.

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/35062

Was trying to remember what I left out of the post here when my first post didn't go through. This is actually what I felt was one of the most worrisome things that happened with Dr J. He used his form of energy medicine -- forget what he called his gadget-- and decided hubby should take 11 Wobenzyme 3 times per day. Hubby had never taken this supplement and had had no testing for hypercoagulation at that point.

After the first day he ended up in the hospital with encephalopathy and was unconscious for 15 hours one day. I have since learned to never ever start a supplement or med for hubby at suggested or therapeutic dose whether or not a doc suggests it or not.

If I need nutritional advice then I would most likely go to a chiropractor rather than an M.D. I don't really have a bias against chiropractors. With any doc it is a matter of training and experience. In my opinion Dr J doesn't have nearly as much experience dealing with Lyme patients as LLMD's who see those patients exclusively.

Hubby currently sees an herbalist who helps with tickborne treatment and also detox, so we don't exclusively see M.D.'s.

Bea Seibert

You mentioned that with any doctor it's a matter of training and experience. Do you know what Dr. J's training has been?  If not, for new people here it is (so newbies have an idea):

"Dr. J. is a published author and is nationally recognized as a leader in Biological Medicine and the treatment of chronic illness.

 

Graduating with a Bachelor's degree in Nutrition with honors, he received his doctorate at Cleveland Chiropractic College-KC.   Post Graduate studies have taken him far and wide, studying natural and anthroposophical medicine in Germany and Biological Medicine with the world-renowned Paracelsus Klinic of Switzerland, with later studies providing certification in Botanical Medicine through the University of Colorado, School of Pharmacy. Dr. Jernigan is also the developer of the diagnostic and treatment technique Bio-Resonance Scanning™ and a whole new concept in medicine called Circuit Healing™."

Dr. Jernigan has personally developed over 30 novel natural medicines to date.   As past president of the American Medical Academy of Thermodiagnostics, he is one of the most experienced doctors in the U.S.A. in one of the latest FDA approved adjunctive diagnostic tests, Computerized Regulation Thermodiagnostics.

Dr. Jernigan is presently writing more books and developing a Bio-Resonance Scanning™ training program for doctors."

Lastly, what is the true meaning of a LLMD anyway?  Did that doctor have lyme?  Or does that doctor give "cookie cutter" treatments to all his/her patients like many I know do and still continue to do?  Was that doctor at death's door like Dr. J. was?  To live it as Dr. J. lived it in my humble opinion is the best training of all.. 

Denise

Hi Bea and all,

I went to the link that you posted. I am so sorry that your husband, Steve, has been through so many years of difficult and failed treatments with both alternative and conventional protocols. Frankly, when you look at the years of problematic outcomes, I must wonder why Dr. J's approach has left you with the most negative opinions. The whole Scientology part of your story is confusing to me and it doesn't seem to have anything to do with him or his practice, but is part of your overall negative experience, for some reason.

On a very positive note, I have to say that I don't really care if Dr. J has more years than a MD or less. He knows more about Lyme than all the Docs that I have met and spoken to, and probably more than most of them that I have not. This is my opinion! Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Mine is based on the fact that it has now been one month since I was treated by him and I am now more than 85 percent well. Each day I am stronger and have a vitality that is off the charts. My pain is gone! Occasionally I have some muscle tenderness but each day that is leaving. I am back to pumping iron. One month ago I could hardly lift my arms to brush my hair. My arms were not really usable because of the extreme joint and muscle pain. My shoulders were frozen. I had Malarial type sweats every night and would wake up in a pool of water. I finally had to sleep wrapped in towels. Dehydration was a real issue. Before my treatment with Dr. J, I was bed ridden for three months. So I am really sorry to hear about the negative things that Bea was saying about her husband's experience and the quote "integrity" issues mentioned by Gracie's Mom, but I am here to say that his treatment worked for me and I believe he is the real deal. Also, his book is excellent and very informative.

I feel that there are many paths to wellness. Whatever works for a person is the right treatment. The fact that it works for that person does not discount the treatment that someone else is successfully doing. I don't feel that it is fair to hold Dr. J to a different standard than all the other practitioners treating Lyme patients. We all know that any Doc trying to help people with Lyme will have successes and failures.


RV

this dr sounds like a snake oil salesman to me , any llmd will tell you that herxing is caused by the bacteria being released into your bloodstream when a spirokeete is killed off, in order to improve your going to have to herx.

now where the area gets grey is how bad do you yourself get before you back off the abx thats doing the keete kill off.

some folks can take the herx's and some cannot, a lot has to do with how much of a bacteria load your body is handling at the time.

very early when you start treatment your bacteria load is at its highest, then as you start killing the spiroketes off each herx you have will get to be less and less painful and less severe.

I have had lyme since 1992 and have been agressivly treating it since december 2007 I went from about 47 wicked symptoms down to just 3 more left to get rid of and I can tell you there is no magic bullet and any doctor who claims to have all the answers well all I can tell you is beware. and my doctor is one of the top llmds in the business.

one more thing I would like to add chiropractors are great at adjusting skeletons but I would rather have a knowledgable llmd treating me.

one of my high school buddies is a chiropractor and I would not let him treat my dogs .

  

    

  

Post Edited (pj1954) : 2/27/2009 11:37:08 AM (GMT-7)

Frango,

If you read the thread you will see who is being attacked! So when someone says they are being helped, then that is no good according to you. Nobody accused anyone of being a scientologist. So now we have a new one to bat around "google fish"? You had a bad experience and you should say so but why is it that if someone has a good one, you are suspicious? Doesn't this work both ways? I guess not! Oh and if you look at the way it was presented here, you will see that it was meant to share an experience that was positive, for a change. However, this quickly turned into some kind of war zone. Really? How does Lyme work? I agree that there is no magic bullet, but if someone is helped by anything, why is that suspect to you? If you had recovered so quickly with such great results, from any protocol whatsoever, wouldn't you let people know about it? Coming from the place that I was three months ago, I would have liked to have known that there is hope and that many things were possible. if I told you that my recovery was from abx or herbs from Zhang, that would be ok? Even though others may not have been helped? I don't understand the double standard. I just do not. Oh yes, and where is the respect? You call people names too when they don't fit into your framework of what is possible?

RV

rv all I said was be cautious Ive been around this a lot longer than most of you and seen all kinds of fantastic claims by those who claim to have the answers, most have a hidden agenda and thats to liberate your hard earned dollars from your pocket into theirs.

I read and watch almost everything possible on lyme and am following a thread on lymenet about all those going to germany for the MAGIC cure, everything ive seen so far says its not MAGIC AT ALL just more quackery !!

Hi all,

Well, I'm home today and taking a break from cleaning out this rental property, almost done, whew!

Anyway, this entire thread is started to spin out of control.  The reason for this thread (as I view it) is to show others that there are other options out there, that's all.  And some like myself had positive results, heck, I have been better for over 3 years now from this protocol and all I would like to see is more people get better!

I have a suggestion:  How about if folks who only believe in conventional medicine post there and other's who are interested in alternative or natural medicine post here?  That way there are no attacks, no bitter words, no negativity...

Frango, Gracie's Mom and others, I'm really sorry that you are still ill as well as your family but why post here?   It's obvious that you dislike the doctor and only want to say negative things about him.  Isn't there an old saying "if you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all?"

So let's respect and honor each other's choices and support those who are getting well and on the road to recovery as well as those who are suffering.    There is no need for all this negativity is there?  If some want to be negative, then start a new thread "for negative people only" or "for conventional antibiotics users only", whatever the name of the thread.

This thread started off as a Hansa Center thread and let it be just that.  I don't understand why people feel the need to bash or question others??  I honestly don't get it. 

I respect antibiotic users so why not respect people who use Dr. J's protocol?   What's fair is fair, right? 

Let there be peace, there are enough problems in this world of ours.

Denise

Gracie's mom.

No. He does not allude to that at all. This is simply your interpretation and not fact based. Sorry, but no.

RV

oh oh oh... autsch !!!

Just two things i dare to throw in now although I am relatively new here and do not even stay in the States:

1. I need you all and love you all so better stop this here before you get a breakdown!!

2. I want to say that in my eyes it is very counterproductive to start separating us along abx and herbal routes; I am very much in herbals, alternative treatments and so on- one reason is because I am completely allergic against penicillin and highly allergic against a lot of abx since I was a child and so my parents and later I myself were forced to be open for other treatment possibilities for infections. But I would not like to be put to one side, like with a stiker on my forhead saying " dorit - the herby". next step then might be: who has the better, the more serious treatment, and so on. Better not even think about it. This forum is really great because it workes without such borders!!

Hansa and Dr.J is obviously a controveral topic and you mentioned different reasons for this being so. It was nevertheless informative to listen to you.

My best wishes to all of us !!!! dorit

Ok, so look. When someone feels the need to start screaming, it is time to chill. For some reason this is a very hot topic that is way beyond anything that I find to be logical. Maybe one day I will understand why the mention of this Doc's name sends some people into a tizzy. Frango, I am so sorry that you are so upset. Whatever the reason. So I told people about my positive experience and by doing it perhaps someone else will be helped. That was all I was hoping for. I wish all of you the best and hope that everyone makes speedy recoveries, no matter how they do it!

Good health to all of you!

RV

GMom,
Thanks for asking. Lilly is doing this whole flu like thing again and her legs hurt, and she is getting mirganes every day, again, and the sun hurst her eyes..and now nightmares again. And I am just not sure what to do. But we have been having such strange cold weather down her for Florida. Is has been swinging from 30 to 60 and we are just not used to it. So that cold be the whole deal. And Charlotte, she is finally coming home to be with me next week.
So I have been trying to fix up her room and clean out her closets and make eveything pretty for her. And show her that I am okay. She is very scared to see me. She still is not sure that I am okay. She was crying to her father that I was going to die. The worst thing about this whole illness is what is does to the ones we love. I really was in my own little world. But my mother and my kids. And for you who are caring for ill children and loved ones. Really I feel the most for the care givers.

Hey is is okay for everyone to vent. Lyme pisses everyone off big time, myself included.

Hey...I am going to win a lotto soon and I will send every one to the 4 seasons and envita. And they had better give me a good deal...both of them!
:>)

Amen Alfers!!!!