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Two dead in murder-suicide had advanced Lyme disease

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Posted 7/27/2010 4:16 AM (GMT 0)
Not sure if this was posted or not. Moderator, if it's duplicate please remove it.

www.ocala.com/article/20100709/ARTICLES/100709703/1005/sports01?p=1&tc=pg

"More blood on the hands of IDSA, CDC and the entire medical
establishment that has turned their backs on this horrific disease
affecting MILLIONS ... this is CRIMINAL! Did you know that SUICIDE is
the #1 cause of death for LYME victims?" --Helen Raser from Facebook page.

Source: www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=50670199525&share_id=131474213556038&comments=1

If this doesn't make your blood boil then I don't know what will. So very sad for the family members. Sadly, there are thousands more like them who are being ignored by the medical establishment. When are we going to stand up and say, "enough is enough?

Gary
Posted 7/27/2010 10:55 AM (GMT 0)
Very, very sad...  I wonder if this couple tried alternative medicine before giving up?  Darn, if they could afford to go back and forth to Florida, they could have afforded to go to the Hansa Center.

It makes me wonder how many people are so brainwashed into thinking that conventional antibiotics are the only answer to this disease?   How many people really got better and stayed better using that method?  This is what makes me angry, if something is not working, then it's time to try a different protocol.  

Edit:  I reread the article and this couple didn't have any money so there was no way they could have gone to the Hansa Center.

Posted 7/27/2010 4:59 PM (GMT 0)
I think apart of Lyme they must have been not very sound in their brain, suicide is for cowards, no matter what the situation is.
Posted 7/27/2010 6:02 PM (GMT 0)

ineisa said...
I think apart of Lyme they must have been not very sound in their brain, suicide is for cowards, no matter what the situation is.

I think that's one of the most insensitive comments I've read here. I'm going to do you a favor and refrain from telling you how I really feel about your rude, insensitive comment, otherwise I might get myself banned from here. Shameful, really shameful.

Gary
Posted 7/27/2010 7:46 PM (GMT 0)
I'm glad you posted that, Gary. I couldn't stop thinking about it and I kept telling myself "just leave it alone" - "leave it be." Inesia, you don't know what their situation was - we read a newspaper article. If nothing else, your comment was hurtful to those of us who have lost loved ones due to suicide.

Victoria

Posted 7/27/2010 8:09 PM (GMT 0)
Inesia,

I agree that that comment was very insensitive. I consider myself a VERY strong person, both physically and mentally and let me tell you that I have thought about it more than once. I would never do it because I am a Christian, but it does cross my mind. When you get to the point where you cannot walk, are stuck in bed ALL THE TIME and cannot even plan anything with family or friends anymore, I think you will rethink what you just posted. This disease wears you down to the point you don't even know who you are anymore.
Posted 7/27/2010 8:30 PM (GMT 0)
Wow! Very ignorant and judgmental. I, too, was going to ignore this post; I usually never get into heated discussions, but this is just too much.

"Not very sound in their brain?" How right you are - THAT's what lyme bacteria does. It invades the brain and causes anything from mild anxiety to full blown mental illness, among many other destructive and painful symptoms.

I think you should further educate yourself before you make such callous and insensitive remarks on a public forum. And I hope that you are right about being on the road to recovery and never have to face the dire circumstances this couple faced.
Posted 7/27/2010 8:42 PM (GMT 0)
Lyme can cause suicidal thoughts and make one feel like it is the only option left, especially when friends, family, and the medical system abandon one or cause one to feel it is all "their fault" for being sick.

The suicidal thoughts caused by Lyme are different than traditional depression/suicidal thoughts in that the Lyme related suicides tend to be less planned and done more on whim. For more on Lyme and suicide, see
http://www.mentalhealthandillness.com/Articles/LymeDepressionAndSuicide.htm
http://www.lymeinfo.net/neuropsych.html
Posted 7/28/2010 2:35 AM (GMT 0)
DeeJaVu, I am glad you brought that up. I've been on conventional abx (if there is such a thing) since August and based on many threads and comments I've read here, and some reading I'm doing, I am really reconsidering the treatment plan I'm on. Before getting sick with this I was a natural healing type of person and avoided pharmaceuticals whenever possible. But my LLMD, a holistic MD who also supports natural healing, said at the outset that he was concerned about treating me with only herbs, etc., because I was so sick. I was encouraged that today he added a holistic herbal tincture to my meds, and engaged positively with me about the possibility of using natural products to treat the Lyme. I can't remember if you've said - did you get of babesiosis and/or bartonella with herbs? Thanks.

Rose
Posted 7/28/2010 2:46 AM (GMT 0)
I must add to this discussion, because there is something that I do understand.

I agree that a person is not 'very sound in their brain' when they commit suicide. THat is the whole point. Because of this disease, I have learned, understood, and felt what has happened to those who ended their own lives. This would not apply to EVERYONE who has taken their own life,

HOWEVER, I have also visited that place (not as severe as those in the piece) -- and it's not a place one voluntarily visits. And it is NOT the place of cowards.

Because of Lyme (and some co-infections), I have experienced extremely severe and painful mental issues. Most are issues that I do not understand or willingly decide to feel. They physically attack me and they are UNBEARABLE -- AND, I know that my thoughts are not my own. I live in fear that Lyme and/or Babesia will F with my mind enough for me to actually want to do it and to justify it.

NO ONE here knows where this couple were when one of them made the decision. Just because Lyme has not screwed up your mind, does not mean it did not screw up theirs. It has nothing to do w/ cowardice. It was an unbearable pain that one of them could not endure. Add that to the fact that this is/was a disease that would not have caused this type of pain, if treated at the onset.

I believe this is tragedy, added to the fact that a disease, which can often be easily treated, was not properly treated.

I know it is a popular statement and thought, but I believe that it is incredibly cruel to call this an act of cowardice. Sadly, there are many people who can no longer bear their pain and suffering -- added to the fact that they ARE NOT ABLE to be 'sound in their brain.' Their brain not only confuses everything, but it suffers, and at times, it leads people to places where they can finally end it.
Posted 7/28/2010 9:59 AM (GMT 0)
Ineisa,

That was really very insensitive.  Cowards?  If you can't understand why someone with Lyme would commit suicide, you certainly aren't as sick as many of us on this forum (including myself).   Consider yourself lucky, but refrain from judging others....or at least posting comments such as those!!

Posted 7/28/2010 11:42 AM (GMT 0)
I am thankful for all of the hits this post is receiving, especially in light of the fact that the #1 cause of death for individuals suffering with Lyme Disease IS suicide–a tragic statistic!

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there are some who have read, or are reading this thread right now, and thinking, "Suicide just may be a way out…" At the same time, others, after reading the story about this precious couple's sad end, may feel exactly the same as Inesia. My guess is that most of us share the same sentiments and are appalled by the ignorance and lack of sensitivity on Inesia's part.

After reading Inesia's comment "…coward…" to say that I was taken aback, would be quite an understatement! I, too, could not believe I read such a comment on a Forum that's purpose is to share information/educate and generally be a blessing and encouragement to one another while on the path toward wellness.

Always the optimist, I am hopeful that good will come from this thread.

If you are thinking suicidal thoughts (or know someone who is) there is help and hope. Following is the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-TALK (8255), a free, 24-hour hotline available to anyone in suicidal crisis or emotional distress. You can call for yourself or someone you care about. It's free, confidential, and available 24/7.

My friend Inesia, and others thinking the same way, as we go through life we all continue to live and learn, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that after reading the posts (even the links that others have so graciously included) you have had at least reconsidered your comment. I'm even hopeful that you've had a change of heart.

Until we walk a mile–or a hopeless suffering minute–in another person's shoes, we might do well to use wisdom when thinking about posting hurtful, judgmental comments, and instead, consider what we can do to help alleviate the pain and suffering another precious soul is going through.

If you are reading this and need someone to talk with…I'm here. I'm not a doctor, or counselor, but I am someone who cares about the plight of those suffering with illness and chronic pain. Send me a PM…I'll give you my phone number.

God bless each and everyone of you,
Rhonda
Posted 7/28/2010 12:12 PM (GMT 0)
JunkYardWilly,

You said, "gary-i understand why you posted this and im not saying you shouldnt, i found it very interesting/sad. i think your intentions were to bring to light the very ugly side of this disease in hopes of raising awareness of what people are going through and how the medical community is abandoning sick people for various reasons. however i dont know if some people can handle it. then again i guess people know what they are getting into when they read forum good or bad".

Yes, you hit the nail on the head as to why I posted this sad story. I know it's a downer, and not inspiring or encouraging to read stories like this, but it's a sad reality of this disease. Sometimes new people come on this forum who were recently dx with Lyme disease by a GP, or ID doctor, and given three weeks of abx and were told everything will be just fine. We know that isn't usually the case.

When new people come here, it's up to us to educate them about how important and urgent it is to seek treatment from a qualified LLMD or LLND. So many people have trusted their GP's when they were told that all they needed is 3 weeks of abx and problem solved. Patients should be able trust their doctors, but sadly, the medical community has done a great disservice to so many of us with Lyme disease. I don't want to see newly diagnosed Lyme patients come on this forum and get the impression that this disease is nothing to take seriously. It's up to us to help them understand the serious consequences of under treating this disease. We have a responsibility to do all we can to encourage people who come here to seek a qualified doctor so they don't come back to us later and say, "why didn't you warn me of the serious consequences of this disease?".

As Tina Garcia, who writes for the Public Health alert so eloquently said, "The deadly consequences of the IDSA directing its membership to deny and ignore chronic Lyme disease patients is easily understood. If chronic Lyme patients seek help from 8,000 infectious disease specialists across the United States, then the majority of those patients desperately seeking help will be rejected and turned away. The diagnosis will be delayed, no treatment will be forthcoming and the infection will spread throughout the patient's body with irreversible damage over a period of years, just as occurs in tertiary syphilis. I am not referring to "some" or "a few" patients in this very real scenario; I am referring to the majority of patients. Such majority will eventually end up on disability costing our government millions of dollars in the long run..."

Source: www.publichealthalert.org/Articles/tinagarcia/abc%20of%20lyme%20part%203.html

In my opinion, the blood of this couple who committed suicide is on the IDSA, CDC, AMA and the insurance companies. I know what it's like to live with late stage lyme disease. I don't think I could ever commit suicide, but I have, in the past, prayed many times to not have to wake up to another day of suffering. While I am doing so much better than I was in December (near death), I still suffer with this consequences of this disease, and very possibly will for the rest of my life. Damage has been done, and some of it may not be reversible. If only I had known ten years ago what I know now. I don't think we should make a point of over emphasizing tragedies like this, but neither should we keep quiet about it. It's up to us to educate, encourage and help people understand the seriousness of this disease. After we've done our part then it's up them to make their own decisions.

In the mean time, we'll continue to do our part in encouraging, and supporting, newcomers (and "oldcomers") that come here, and give them hope that they can beat this disease with prompt and appropriate treatment. I believe this forum, as well as other Lyme forums, has probably saved countless lives. We may never know the many lives we've impacted in a positive way. I know my life has been positively impacted by this forum. Because of this forum I was given information that led me to a treatment protocol that is helping me get better. I've been blessed and encouraged by the people on this forum. I hope I can be an encouragement and blessing to others who come here as well. You (and many others here) have been a blessing to me JYW--thank you!

Gary
Posted 7/29/2010 2:56 AM (GMT 0)
ALL of these posts are excellent, pertinent and most welcome. As a Lyme & Babesia sufferer, I would like to reiterate what I said before -- partly because I couldn't adequately express my thoughts on this, and so would like to try again.

One of the most heinous parts of this disease -- ASIDE from the physical suffering, is the horrific depression, along with the unbearable insanity one feels too often.

I am saying that I have come to understand many of those who have ended their own lives, because I often experience these thoughts, desires, and even plans -- and they are at times that I KNOW I have NO reason to be thinking this way. I believe that some who end their own lives were incapable of understanding where these desires came from, or where the big 'S' word came from, and from where came the temptation to do it. Even when they know that they REALLY do not want it.

One just gets into a place that they cannot handle or bear, and thoughts of ending it all invade the mind, again, against one's will. These 'invasions' also frequently tell us that this is not just a 'way out', but that our own ending will not only allow us to escape from our sick minds, it will also make things easier for our loved ones, than having to put up w/ our suffering.

This disease CAN convince us that ending it all would be the best thing for all and the right thing to do.

That is freaking scary, and I have felt close enough to this place that I will NOT call these people 'cowards'. Lyme did not only destroy their health and cause physical and mental pain, it screwed up their minds and allowed them to rationalize what they were doing.

IF EVER there was a cry for help with this disease, this sure as sh-t is it.

I don't know how to say it or explain it --- but I know it comes with this disease, and it is terrifying what this disease can make us feel and believe.
Posted 7/29/2010 3:14 AM (GMT 0)
PS:  In most situations, of course, not all, I will maintain  that this act is not due to cowardice.  I have tried to contemplate this many times.  Of course I know it is wrong and that I could never hurt my family this way.  But I also know I do not have the guts to make the decision to end it all.  To make a FINAL decision that can never be retracted.

I am not scared of dying.  But I am scared to make a decision to purposely do this to myself and my family.

It seems to me that many (not all) of those who have done this are definitely NOT cowards. Right or wrong, they made a very powerful decision that they could not undo.

Please do not misunderstand -- I am in no way condoning their action. But it is done and over and I think that most of us have caught glimpses of the pain, suffering, and messed up minds of those suffering from Lyme.

Posted 7/29/2010 7:02 AM (GMT 0)
Hi all,

Just woke up from a bad hot flash (forget to take my progesterone, so I guess it's working).  Anyway, I hesitated in telling this story when I was really sick I had planned it out all in my head how I was going to take not only my life but my 2 dogs (they were alive back then) as well.

I was seeing this doctor who was prescribing benzo's (I forgot the name) but they were a controlled substance and I saved them up.   Being a recovering alcoholic I had planned to buy 2 or 3 bottles of scotch and I was going to drug my doggies (only because I was totally alone and my dogs loved me so much that even when I left them with my Mom they only wanted me).. 

So I knew if I were to go my dogs would suffer horribly and I couldn't do that to them if that makes any sense.   The 3 of us were one close-knit family.  My dogs were my life.. 

Anyway, I didn't have the "guts" to do it.. I had it all  planned out but I chickened out.  I think I took 2 or 3 pills, never touched the scotch, and never gave anything to my doggies.   

I don't know why I chickened out, but I remember thinking wow, it's not easy to take one's life, in fact it must take so much guts..   I remember feeling that perhaps there was some hope afterall and that I could always do this..  You know that cliche, permanent solution to a temporary problem (well, lyme was not a short temporary but a long and dragged out one)..

So I was in that place and I was darn close to ending it all..   I was and still am alone, I was scared, my family didn't understand and gave me no support..  In fact my mother only gave me even more problems by putting me down and upsetting me..   My Mom was not nice to me during the years I suffered and to this day I do keep some distance between her and myself..

That's all, time to put on the progestone cream,

Denise

Posted 7/29/2010 3:02 PM (GMT 0)

PattiB said...


If anyone here is considering something like this, Please come here 1st and talk to someone. Many of us have our emails listed if you click on our names and we will even be glad to call you on the phone.
Hugs and prayers for everyone here.

I definitely agree with Patti on this!!!

I guess I may have a rather unique perspective on this subject. Very few people know that I tried to commit suicide back in my 20's. It was true for me that I really didn't see any other way out of my problems - what I didn't know was that a lot of my problems were due to tick-born infections. I was struggling at work, home life was horrible, family was not the least bit supportive - they were actually blaming me for my health problems... I actually took the pills -lots of them, and drank the alcohol - whiskey, straight out of the bottle - but for some reason, nothing happened. I should not have survived, but I did.

I have been & am grateful that I survived, for despite my illnesses I now have 4 beautiful children (all adults now), a beautiful grandson, and a very wonderful husband who is supportive.... the list of what I'm greatful for goes on & on - now.


So, as Patti stated - please come here & talk with someone - please.
Posted 7/29/2010 3:17 PM (GMT 0)
Obviously it was loosing their son that put them over the edge completely. I don't even know if it was the lyme that made them end it.
When two people make that decision together that is pretty intense. Usually , one helps talk the other one today and the other tomorrow.

I have two friends that lost 2 of their kids , each when they turned 18..5 yrs apart. if it wasn't for the last daughter they had left who knows how they would have held it together. As it is the 3 of them have been dangling by a thread.

For me the key to this whole thing is SERATONIN. I DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING TO KEEP IT UP. EXCEPT ANTIDEPRESSANTS.
I go from one thing to another because it seems like things work for a few days and then don't but I am so SHOCKED that I had a good day it keep me searching for a new trick.

In fact keeping my seratonin up has been more important than searching for the right lyme treatment.

Getting yourself in a good moood is not easy especially when I get locked into so much darkness and anger and then it turns into agony all alone where I let the dishes pile up and my clothes are on the floor . I get dressed in the morning and put the same thing on day after day off the floor.

It get's black and I read this post before going to bed the other night and what has stuck in my head replaying and replaying is
that line......suicide is number one reason for death with lyme.

Is that realllly true? or is lyme the umber one cause for suicide?

I been having some good days and sitting up on sewing machine actually making stuff. this is huge. this is seratonin.

I started drinking this NONI juice from a woman in Kuai and it picked me up that much. I was shocked. I'm smiling too instead of
giving people stink eye when they say hi.

But I am still on pain pills and don't like that.
I agree with junkyard about thinking about some of these posts. and I totally get why it was important to post at same time.

If we want to show the pint about suicide and relation to lyme that one isn't such good example (i think) because their kid died.
I have to read those suicide links.
Posted 7/29/2010 8:34 PM (GMT 0)
I've had plenty of moments when life with Lyme didn't seem worth living. Even more thinking that if this is the future for me, I don't want it. I look on the future with a certain amount of terror because of expanding medical problems. Getting to stasis and past the decline would be a monumental improvement. I don't know where anyone else's tolerance level is, and I don't agree personally or religiously with suicide, but I understand how people could find themselves in a place where suicide seems a better alternative than going on, where the emotional and physical pain is so big it seems insurmountable, and where tomorrow seems to hold no promise. As a teenager, I spent ten months in a locked facility after a failed suicide attempt. When you can't stand being in yourself anymore and when life seems a pointless torture, it's not inconceivable to contemplate ending it all. How do you get out of yourself??? But what I learned is that there is always possibility. A lot of therapy later, I was a changed person and ready to face the world. Had I killed myself back then, I'd have missed out on a whole wonderful life. Thank goodness there was intervention.

It makes me sad to hear of people with Lyme killing themselves, but I only have compassion for them. What a catastrophic decision. Like others, I have down days where I can't see my way out. I've given myself permission on those days to take the day off from the world. Those are days at home with soothing activities, or just vegetating. I have a note on my dressing table, taken from the book Attitudes of Gratitude, reminding me that I'm not stuck there because when I am in one of those days, it's irrational, but I cannot remember that it is not always like that. Lyme and bartonella (and maybe babesia, I don't know) mess with my head.

I will end this with a quote from PattiB's thread because nothing I write would be better. "If anyone here is considering something like this, Please come here 1st and talk to someone. Many of us have our emails listed if you click on our names and we will even be glad to call you on the phone.
Hugs and prayers for everyone here."

Rose
Posted 7/29/2010 9:29 PM (GMT 0)
10 years ago I started studying the Bible and made the decision to become a Christian. I know without a doubt in my mind that having a relationship with God and relying on his promises of a good future planned for me is the only thing keeping me going. There have been numerous times that I have wanted to just ram my car into a brick wall at 80 mph with no seat belt on. But God reminds me to cry out to Him for help, and He gives it every time just like He promises. It hurts God to see us suffering. It's at this pivotal time in our depression that we have to fight to be humble and willing to ask for help.

I've been dealing with Lyme treatment now for 2 years and I'm finally at the point of realizing that this is not only a physical battle but also a spiritual battle. And I'm now able to be grateful for my suffering because I've benefited and seen the positive results of relying more on God and not so much on myself.

prayers for us all!!
Lisa
Posted 7/30/2010 1:50 PM (GMT 0)
That story was very sad, and makes me feel like crying. What has this world come to that no one will believe what is happening to Lyme patients,. Why do they take so much time to find out and treat other diseases but this one they don't want to touch. It scares me so much. Thank goodness for the good friends I have made on this board and for my doctor. To think those tow people where so destroyed by this disease that they thought the only thing that would but them at rest was to end their life is so horribly sad. They had a son they loved they had a passion for traveling they loved animals, and this no good rotten disease stole it all from them until it in the end made them do the unthinkable. Im just heart broken over it all.
Posted 7/30/2010 6:09 PM (GMT 0)
I think it takes courage to willfully end one 's life/ I have no idea where the woman came up with cowardice.
Its a personal decision probably made very carefully by this couple. It sounds as if there son is old and wise enough to manage w/o living parents. We know nothing of their pain, I say Rest in peace and God Bless. I like knowing I have the option but pullin a trigger takes guts, its not a cowardice act.
Posted 7/31/2010 3:52 AM (GMT 0)
I cannot second guess what this couple was thinking, or any person for that matter, who would end their life. I would venture to say hope was lost and they were very shortsighted.

resesinjanuary, as I read your post I felt very sad and two things came to my mind:

1) A very dear friend of mine, her husband killed himself in 2004, leaving her a widow plus his four children (all still at home) without a father. If he could have seen the pain and suffering his suicide would cause his precious family these past six years I am sure he would not have done it.

2) My own mom died of an illness when I was 27. (It was not Lyme Disease and she did not kill herself.) At 27, sure, I was "old enough and wise enough to manage wo her" to quote you. In December it will be 30 years since she left to be with the Lord. Yet, sometimes things come up and I'd sure like to hang out with Mom. Recently, my daughter-in-love posted on Facebook a conversation between her and her son (my grandson). My daughter-in-love is glowingly pregnant. Conversation as follows:

Son (speaking to mommy's belly): "Baby giiiirl! Give me a huuuug. Eww, she slobbered on me."

Mommy: "That's _you_ slobbering on _me_."

Son: "Oh. Yeah."

When I read that on Facebook, I thought, "Oh, Mom, I miss you. I wish you were here so we could share these experiences together." Well, I know one day Mom and I will talk again and we'll have lots of catching up to do.

I want to reiterate, any one who is even remotely thinking about suicide there is help and hope. Following is the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-TALK (8255), a free, 24-hour hotline available to anyone in suicidal crisis or emotional distress. You can call for yourself or someone you care about. It's free, confidential, and available 24/7.

You do make a difference in people's lives. Your life is important just like the husband and father I mentioned above. My mother was brave and courageous as she struggled and suffered with illness to her very last breath. I thank God for every minute I had with her.
Posted 7/31/2010 10:59 AM (GMT 0)
I have just read some of your post and I still think the same. Suicide is the ultimate selfish act a human being can perform. I can see their friends an family wondering every day of their lives now if they could have done something, paid them a visit or even a phone call to avoid this tragedy. My sadness and sorrow goes to them.
Although suicide is a difficult decision ultimately giving into it is the easy choice. Continue to fight what ever it is that bothers you physically or mentally is the harder choice if you are contemplating suicide.
What scares me the most is seeing so many of you accepting this and justifying their act. I am not of the same opinion. Not now at least, I cant say how I will think in the future, although I have had some pretty bad stuff happening to me that thought never crossed my mind.
Posted 7/31/2010 11:40 AM (GMT 0)
All I can say is this:

You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it."


- spoken by Atticus Finch, by Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

I have personally walked around in those people's skin and it's a very dark place.

Denise

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