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Posted 10/12/2010 10:51 PM (GMT 0)

My internist informed that my protein levels are low and I'm losing too much muscle mass.  In addition to possibly having malabsorption issues, I've also recently developed an aversion to many foods that I use to eat on a regular basis.  For a period of time, I was drinking a few whey protein shakes a day but found that this caused what seemed like more sensitivity issues.  I found that when I limit myself to one whey protein shake a day I don't seem to experience any problems.  My internist keeps pushing me to try various foods but the problem is I often find I can't eat anything at all but have no problem drinking a shake.  Oh yeah, I also started taking Similase which is a plant enzyme to help with digestion and plan on adding Green Vibrance to the mix soon.  

Anyway, is there such a thing as too much protein intake and what are your thoughts on drinking/eating the following each day?  

Whey Protein Powder - 17 gms protein

Rice Protein Powder - 12 gms protein

Pea Protein Power - 28 gms protein

1 hard boiled egg - 6.3 gms protein

Green Vibrance

Any suggestions or opinions would be appreciated.  Thanks!

Posted 10/12/2010 11:04 PM (GMT 0)
If absorption is a problem for you, then taking all this protein may or may not help you. I personally do better with pure amino acids instead of whole food proteins. I use a complete meal replacement mix (protein, carbs, fats, vitamins, minerals, fiber) based on amino acids called Alpha ENF, but the company also makes a pure amino acid powder called Alpha AAX. It is expensive, but if it is protein you are after, then it may be worth it for you. Check it out at http://www.alphanutrition.com/alphaaax/index.htm (I have no financial connections with this company or product).

I've also heard that some with Lyme actually do better on a lower protein diet...but I don't know why. Perhaps it has to do with blood type (type A needs less protein in general than type O, not sure about B or AB - check out "Eat Right For Your Type" (book), there's plenty of info online about it).

Glad you are taking a comprehensive digestive enzyme...that helps me too. And another thing that helps is probiotics...I can't seem to handle much protein at all without both the enzymes and the probiotics.

But I think it will be trial and error to figure out what proteins you can handle and in what quantities. Some things can cause protein loss - such as liver disease, protein losing enteropathy (intestinal inflammation - inflammatory bowel disease, Celiac disease, Eosinophilic Gastrointestinal Disorders, food allergies, gut infections, etc.), some kidney issues, etc., so those would be things to consider checking into to see if there is some reason your protein is too low besides just lack of sufficient intake and/or poor absorption.

Take care,
Posted 10/12/2010 11:13 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for all the great information Razzle. I was hoping you would answer :) I'm already taking a good probiotic so will see what the next labs show and go from there. I've lost so much muscle mass so I'm not sure low protein is the way to go for me but will ask my llmd at my next appointment in a few weeks. Will also look into the meal replacement you recommended. Actually, that's what I've been trying to find all along since I often have trouble eating. Thanks again.
Posted 10/12/2010 11:20 PM (GMT 0)
With the Alpha ENF, I find it tastes better warm/hot. To me, the unflavored version tastes like vegetable broth, and I have put it in soup or stew (after cooking the soup/stew first) because of this. I have never tried the vanilla flavored version, so can't tell you what that one tastes like. Good luck & take care,
Posted 10/12/2010 11:44 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Razzle. Sometimes I think I would do so much better if you and a few others on this forum could just treat me...lol!
Posted 10/13/2010 3:47 AM (GMT 0)
Razzle:
I've been reading your posts and you are starting to sound like a doctor, the way you pick the right words to explain everything
LOL Thanks for the info! I find that I am stressing myself too much over what I should eat and what I should not so I just eat smaller amounts of everything and I cut back on breads and sugar. I can't see an improvement from that, but I may be biased, bec. I miss my sweets :( and husband is Italian, so I do make pasta, I just eat less of it...
Posted 10/13/2010 9:13 PM (GMT 0)
WOW! That is WAY more protien than I get in a day. tongue

Honestly, I would not rely on nutrition advice from an internist. If they were lucky, they got maybe ONE nutrition course during their schooling...hardly making one an expert in nutrition. Especially when advising someone with an illness like this. On top of that, the WHO recommendations for protien and the FDA's recommendations ar VERY different (thank you meat suppliers).

My uneducated advice? Listen to your body. How do you FEEL on less protien? Are you able to exercise at all? You do not need to consume protien to build muscle, you need to do muscle strengthening activities to build muscle. And consume Amino Acids. Like Razzle said, perhaps consuming aminos would benefit you more? I have not consumed any overt protien (animal, tofu, nut, beans or otherwise) in a VERY long time and I have not lost any muscle, and when feeling well can run many, many miles. :-)

But, as Razzle also mentioned, there are other reasons one's protien could be low that has nothing to do with what you are consuming.

I am a huge fan of aminos. And digestive enzymes. Hell, enzymes in gereral. I am also a beliver that if you are having an aversion to something there is a reason. Your body is trying to tell you something. Sigh. Hang in there...it sucks when you feel like you can't eat :(

PS- Razzle, I LOVE YOUR DISCLAIMERS! :)

 

Posted 10/14/2010 12:34 AM (GMT 0)
Hey raw runner, Thanks for responding. The internist did not recommend that I take all that I mentioned above which I now realize is way too much protein...I thought that up all one my own...LOL! She's an integrative md, stated that my protein is too low and keeps suggesting foods I should be eating...ugh! I am concerned about the the loss of so much muscle mass and unfortunately I'm really not well enough to do any exercise. Whenever I try to start a program using very light weights for very short periods it just sets me back even further and the pain is unbearable. I think Lyme is at play here and do plan on adding the meal replacement Razzle suggested along with possibly one protein shake a day...not all the ones I mentioned above...and continuing with the enzyme supplement.

I just found out that there's a nutritionist working with my llmd's office and plan on making an appointment with her after my appointment with the llmd in a few weeks althouh I'm hoping Razzle's meal replacement suggestion does the trick.

Simela, It's good that you cut back on bread and sugar. For the longest time I had sweet cravings that were out of control. I'm usually a strong-willed person with a great deal of willpower but just couldn't help indulging no matter how hard I tried or how bad I knew it was for me. My llmd believed the cravings were being caused from both LD and candida. The good news is that I no longer have cravings for sweets....thank goodness! I've been taking probiotics all along and also took a course of oreganol p73...not sure if this is what helped. Unfortunately, the typical anti-fungal meds such as diflucan and sporanax didn't do much.

Thanks for all the input everyone!
Posted 10/14/2010 1:00 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks for all the compliments! blush     My philosophy is this:  I'm not a doctor but I've learned a lot through my journey to find answers and solutions for my own health issues, so it seems a waste if I don't share what I've learned with others.

If you can exercise even a tiny amount, drinking the amino-acids within 30-60 minutes after exercise will give your muscles optimum opportunity to put the amino acids to good use.  From what I understand, muscle uptake of protein is best after exercise...probably because the body is in 'repair' mode to fix the tiny tears in muscle that exercising causes (this is normal, and it strengthens the muscle - hence why muscles get stronger from rigorous workouts; it is the uric acid crystals that cause pain in muscles...so drinking plenty of fluids helps to wash away the uric acid and reduce muscle pain).

I've consulted with a number of nutritionists, and have found that I know way more about how my body processes foods and nutrients than any textbook can possibly hope to convey to someone who has not been sick like we here have.  I'm not trying to tell you not to go see a nutritionist - I think it is good to get input from a nutritionist, but ultimately, you know your body best - so if something isn't working the way the nutritionist says it should, listen to your body. 

Take care,

Posted 10/14/2010 1:11 AM (GMT 0)
Razzle, You're an angel...thanks!
Posted 9/22/2016 12:00 PM (GMT 0)
Okay, I know I know this is a VERY old post but after searching the Google box I couldn't find much.
I haven't been here in awhile so I am not sure if Razzle is still here. But has anyone or Razzle used the Alpha meal replacement recently ? It looks very promising!!

My gut is a total mess from all the ABX the LLMD has had me on over the past year. I know a lot of you can relate. :( I have lost 25 lbs since March without trying(from 145 to 120) which is very disconcerting but the doctor doesn't seem too fazed. He just says I'm malnourished and gave some anti-diarrhea meds. Well duh!! Anything I put in goes right out and I am getting desperate. I need something very easy to digest that will stay with me.

I am also flying 6000 miles in November to have (maybe Lyme related)infections in my jawbone addressed by a holistic dentist. (Thanks to Magoo2 for the recommendation if you are reading this!!!!)
I want to be well enough and nourished to travel and have the surgeries, but I am getting nervous. Or any other thoughts to calm down my gut so food stays in? I tried Dr. Axe's Leaky Gut formula but that made me worse.

Thanks, and with gratitude for this community. :-)
Posted 9/22/2016 2:05 PM (GMT 0)
I would say make sure that you are taking a really good probiotic would be helpful as well, and make sure that you don't have candida or C.diff from the abx use.
Posted 9/22/2016 3:08 PM (GMT 0)
@ scorpio1960...in the list posted by you the best protein to take would be the egg. It is a complete protein (with all the 9 amino-acids ) and it is easily absorbable by the body.
Whey protein is the second best, but not as easily absorbable by body for all individuals.
The other proteins listed are not complete.
You should be taking about 0.5 gr of protein for lb of your body weight if you do not workout. So we are talking roughly, if you weight 120 lb your daily intake should be about 60 gr of protein.
If you workout, it is about double that.
Most people are not even close to a tenth of that number.

I suggest that you eat protein from food sources as this would make it easier to absorb....and more interesting than drinking a shake. :-)

Eggs, fish, meat, hemp protein powder, quinoa, spirulina,cheese, yogurt....all these are complete proteins.
Beans, peas, rice, peanut butter, nuts and greens are generally incomplete but you could combine them to make complete. It requires some knowledge to know how to do so.

I hope this helps.
Posted 9/22/2016 3:16 PM (GMT 0)
I'm on a high protein diet due to trying to heal my adrenals and I struggle with getting enough protein as well - I simply can't eat enough. I tried protein shakes as well, but I'm lactose intolerant, so I avoid the whey protein shakes - and I made myself drink them for too long, so they make me really nauseous now and it lasts all day, so I've dropped them and am trying to get all my protein through food.
Posted 9/22/2016 3:44 PM (GMT 0)
I am used to eat protein from bodybuilding.....so I know how hard it is Traveller.
A fillet of fish like salmon or flounder has about 12 to 15 gr of proteins.....In a Aldi's bag there are 5 of them. I can eat all 5 in one take (baked). That will give me only half of my requirement 60gr-75gr as an athlete...

I eat 3 eggs a day (that is 18 gr)...I KNOW I am a candidate for heart attack and cholesterol --But my cholesterol is very good---
1 cup of yogurt has about 9 gr If you make your own shakes you can use 2 cups of yogurt and double the amount to 18 gr
1 can of tuna fish has about 12 to 15 gr

Not that hard.....and I do not eat meat.

Hemp protein powder>>>>> I strongly suggest this to those who are lactose intolerant. 4tbs of hemp protein powder is 15 gr of protein. @ GNC usda organic for about $18 a lb can.
If you make a shake with 2 cups of live culture whole milk, organic, plain yogurt and 4TBS of hemp protein powder....you have about 33 gr of complete proteins.

Quinoa also has very high protein (complete)....depending on type 8gr to 10gr per serving (but is very high in calories).

Herrings...a tiny can of herrings has 16 gr of proteins.

Sorry.....I can go on and on....I have all my proteins gr engraved in my brain from habit lol

Post Edited (artermix) : 9/22/2016 9:47:01 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/22/2016 3:50 PM (GMT 0)
If I could force myself to eat more than twice a day, that alone would help! But I have zero appetite. I rarely get hungry, and I've had to learn that hunger pains for me is nausea - which is when I've gone too long without food. I just force myself to eat twice a day and find whatever I can get down me, keeping in mind it has to have as much protein as I can force down.

I can eat 2 eggs, but not daily. I can eat a can of tuna, but not daily. If I force food down me all the time, I get so nauseous all day long that I soon can't keep food down. So food is like a two edged sword for me - my body needs it, but doesn't seem to want it - no matter what kind of a diet I follow. I've been this way for many years now.

I'm sure it has to do with the vagus nerve, but I have no idea what it's done to it, or how to fix it other than to continue to heal. =(
Posted 9/22/2016 3:58 PM (GMT 0)
I totally get it Traveler. I was just explaining to those who have trouble and think the only way is a tub of whey ha ha ha.......trying to that once we know the foods with proteins then we can get them easier in body.
I am sorry you do not have appetite, unfortunately that is the opposite for me.
.....on a side note ...taking your proteins after fasting...it will make it more effective.
Also we live in an era of carbohydrates and people eat so much of it which then makes it harder to eat any proteic foods.
And my post-reply on proteins has nothing to do with lyme, but it can be applied to any regiment.
Posted 9/22/2016 4:12 PM (GMT 0)
The only problem with fasting, is that it's hard on the adrenals and I have enough issues with those buggers!! I do feel better when fasting, but I think it's directly tied to digestive issues that I can avoid if I don't eat! LOL! My whole digestive tract has been messed up all my life, so I don't expect any quick fixes, but some relief would be nice!!! I take herbs daily to help keep intestinal cramping to a minimum, take digestive enzymes, AVC, and bile salts (no gall bladder).

And, unfortunately, I'm overweight!!! With adrenals and thyroid issues, I gained even more weight (40 lbs in 6 weeks when they crashed), and when I eat very little, my body goes into starvation mode and I can't loose weight at that point either.
Posted 9/22/2016 6:35 PM (GMT 0)
Collagen peptides are a good source of protein while also being helpful with restoring those collagen structures that Lyme likes to eat. I've found the Amandean brand is a good deal and seems high quality.
Posted 9/22/2016 7:14 PM (GMT 0)
Yep, I've put on 40-50 lbs with this bogus disease. No matter the exercise or diet, lbs pile up and not off. I did have MSH hormone checked, which is in the tank and regulates many other hormones like leptin, but I can't get well enough to get the issue to resolve. I know it would help my joints if i could. I look terrible.

When my lyme symptoms went into remission, and I had lots of energy to workout, I thought I could make the weight come back into balance, but then the new symptoms popped up, and I have to work on co-infections now.

It's all so frustrating.

I am lucky with dairy and gluten that I don't get reaction. I stay gluten free almost always, but i do whey protein shakes every morning. Dr. Mercola Miracle Whey. I have no issues. i also use SFH whey. Both are from grass pastured cows, so good quality. I also use vegan shakes PHOOD and their organic variety (can't think of the name as we have been out of that one for a while.)

I have collagen also, but it's gross tasting and I forget to ingest it. I need to start.
Posted 9/23/2016 10:26 AM (GMT 0)
@ Traveler-
Thanks for your thoughts. Yeah taking Biokult and lots of fermented foods/drinks. We did test both Candida and C. Diff which came back negative.
Posted 9/23/2016 5:28 PM (GMT 0)
Oh good! I'm so glad that you aren't dealing with those on top of everything else!

Maybe it's time to try things like meal replacement shakes, but don't stop eating what you can!
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