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To the sleep deprived: Have you ever used Phenibut/PheniTropic/other GABA suppliments?

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Posted 9/27/2011 5:43 AM (GMT 0)
I've got the aches, I've got the brain fog, and the whole endless list of symptoms, but by far, the absolute worst symptom is insomnia. I have the constant feeling like adrenalin is coursing through my veins... heart racing, head racing, the whole bit. I can go days where I don't sleep until 6am and then only sleep on and off until noon. It's literally hell on earth... there's not much that is more debilitating physically, mentally and emotionally as long term sleep deprivation....... and then I'll sleep for a day and start all over again.

Anyways, long story short, doxy has made the insomnia worse, so my doc suggested PheniTropic, a variety of Phehibut which is a derivative of GABA (inhibitory neurotransmitter). Just wondering if anyone has tried this and if so what reaction you had. I'm going to call and order it tomorrow, but I'd love to hear your experiences!

At this point I'll seriously try anything to get me sleeping.... cry
Posted 9/27/2011 10:22 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Woodland,

Oh, you are right, insomnia is the worst. Without it there is no healing for body, mind or spirit.

I don't have any experience with that particular sleep aid, but would say if that doesn't work, keep trying different ones until you find something that does. It is critical to get your rest.

Saying that, I have to recognize that I haven't been sleeping well lately -- must address this!

Good luck! Let us know how it works.
Posted 9/27/2011 10:25 AM (GMT 0)
Hi woodlandfrolicker and welcome!

A detox bath and eating some turkey helps me when I'm having problems..

Wish I could be of more help,

Denise

Posted 9/27/2011 5:13 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for all of your responses!

The few times I've tried detox baths, they have helped a little- they'll definitely relax me and help me drift off, but unfortunately nothing seems to KEEP me asleep. I should try them again though- that's a good idea!

I have tried to do relaxation exercises, but to know avail... like, I end up way more frustrated and angry then when I began as if I didn't do the exercise right or something and that it's my fault that I can't sleep for days and days. It's simply not a psycho-somatic thing and I need to stop thinking that it may be! It literally feels like my veins are electric... my body twitches, heart races, etc. And I feel like that ALL day. It used to be that I'd go for 3-4 days like that (fully debilitated in bed...) then get 3-4 days of feeling more relaxed where I could get some rest and live life. None of this, btw, has any correlation with life events.. it comes and goes at random (I've spent much time trying to figure out if there is any rhyme or reason!) But since I started the Doxy (and just added zithromax to the cocktail yesterday... ouch, I hurt....), it's literally daily.

So I'm hoping and praying that Phenibut works. I've been on ambien (works for a day then leaves me with ridiculous hangovers), tylenol pm (works for maybe 2 days then just makes me more tired and headachey), muscle relaxers (make me depressed), antidepressants (make me suicidal, then so fuzzy headed that I can't hold a conversation, plus it didn't help with sleep at all! what a disaster...), 5HTP (same reaction as antidepressants), melatonin (either no reaction or depression, but still no sleep), etc.... I had someone suggest Beta Blockers but that's a road I'm not sure I'm ready to travel... we shall see.....

Anyways, sorry for the vent! I just want to be able to live a little. I can push through a good deal of pain, but long term insomnia is another story...!! Plus how will my body be strong enough to heal if I never sleep?
Posted 9/27/2011 5:15 PM (GMT 0)
By the way, I put the order in today for the Phenibut. I will let you all know how it works!
Posted 9/27/2011 7:54 PM (GMT 0)
I met a friend today who mentioned that I looked more energetic than last week. Sure enough, I took a full pill of my lorazepam, whereas last week I was only on 1/2 as I try to wean myself off of it. Getting a good night's sleep is so important, so I hope that you find something good for you.
Posted 9/27/2011 8:17 PM (GMT 0)
HI Woodland!
The lack of ability to get to sleep and to stay asleep, as well as non-refreshing sleep have been real serious issues for me for years now! Like you I have tried all kinds of things - except actual sleeping pills.

I am having some limited success with Valerian, magnesium, melatonin and Trazodone, and chamomile tea for now. Also like you, everything I try has a limited time that it seems to be effective for me. It's not only frustrating, but hard to explain to all kinds of docs! They seem to find it hard to believe that something can work for a few days or even a few weeks and then suddenly stop working without me having changed a thing.

Please do keep us informed on how well this medication helps you or if it doesn't!
Posted 9/27/2011 8:50 PM (GMT 0)
Well, for me, I am on the computer more than I like to be, but that's mainly because I'd rather be outside now that I can be!!! LOL!

Other than that, I think I probably spend about 4 - 5 hours a day on the computer. I almost never am on the computer after about 5 p.m. ~ unless I have received a desperate cry for help from someone on the forum. I need to have time to just "be" with my hubby and I have discovered that if I spend too much time on the computer I seem to just get all wonky - great medical term, huh? It doesn't matter if I start out on the computer at 5 a.m., if I am on it more than about 5 hours I have issues - headaches, eyes have trouble focusing, brain is just very tired, even the nerves in the rest of my body will begin to complain! eyes
Posted 9/27/2011 9:24 PM (GMT 0)
hey woodlandfrolicker :)

I can not even begin to express the depths of my sympathy with your insomnia. It is something that has plagued me my entire life, even long before lyme. I've tried different sleeping aids throughout the years, meditation/relaxation techniques, etc etc etc - even those special ion lights that are supposed to reset the body's natural rhythms. And like most here, everything has brought only limited success.

Melatonin has been the thing that's helped me the most, but I don't like how long I've been taking it (years) and so recently on this forum I read someone's post about earthing ( google 'earthing'--not sure if admin rules allow me to post the link ;) I have no connection to any products!) and decided to give that a try. It's basically just re-connecting to the earths energies, via either walking barefoot outside or sleeping with your bare skin on a special mat that conducts the earths energies through grounding outlets. Which, yes, I realize sounds hippy dippy BUT:

I got my earthing mat last week and IMMEDIATELY started sleeping like concrete. I've never slept so well in my entire life. Even on nights when I used to be able to fall asleep I'd usually get up AT LEAST 5-6 times a night to use the bathroom, but ever since sleeping with my feet on this mat I don't wake up AT ALL during the night and often wake up with a massive amount of drool on my pillow! It's still taking me a bit of time to actually fall asleep, but once I do I'm in a coma. It's pretty amazing. I'm most definitely getting a deeper REM sleep.

I would highly recommend you try it and I plan on writing a more detailed report of my experience with it once I've been doing it for a bit longer and am able to fully list the benefits, but so far I am blown away at the change in my quality of sleep.

Oh! And I have Raynaud's disease and have noticed my feet and hands are much warmer/getting more circulation. Even my chiro noticed at my appointment the other day "Your feet don't feel like blocks of ice today!"
Posted 9/27/2011 9:32 PM (GMT 0)
Aquaholical,
You can feel free to post any links that you don't receive any type of compensation from! If you just want to share you success story (like you have done here), then please do provide a link. I like links!!!! turn

The member who originally brought up the subject of earthing mats was KO-LD. You can find the posts by using our search function.
Posted 9/27/2011 9:53 PM (GMT 0)
Ah yes, my bad memory prevented me from remembering KO-LD's screenname and my laziness kept me from looking it up ;)

Here is the site I have been reading/gathering information from:
http://www.earthinginstitute.net/

and this site has products under the 'Shop' link at top of the page:
http://www.earthing.com/index.php

I haven't started reading the book yet but all the products come with a free copy, so I have it and it's on my to-read list :)
Posted 9/27/2011 10:27 PM (GMT 0)
Here is a laugh. I just found out that the reason I can't sleep is MOLD.
I couldn't figure out why I slept better in other places and not my own house.

it is everywhere and lyme people can not handle mold at all. It make things
10times worse.

It is raining all over the place and if it rains and things down't dry up it creates mold.

check around your house. how damp is it? how ventelated is it?

I am looking into getting treated for mold before I touch anymore abx
Posted 9/28/2011 2:35 AM (GMT 0)
Insomnia was one of my worst symptoms at one point. I am sleeping better now but I still use natural supplements to help ensure a good nights rest. I have used multiple remedies to attack the insomnia from all angles.

Melatonin has been amazing for me. It almost seems to make time slow down. I keep the dosage low or else I feel groggy the next day.

L-Theanine helps take the edge off my anxiety. This comes from green tea. Supposedly the reason Buddhist monks drink so much green tea is because the L-Theanine puts their brains into meditative states. This is one of the most underrated supplements in my opinion whether you have Lyme or not.

I've tried various herbs which didn't have much effect for me. Valerian root was weird because the odor would actually come through my skin and hair (like when some people eat onions). So I quit that stuff. But everyones different so maybe you would benefit from herbs more than I did. Good luck to you and your sleep.
Posted 9/28/2011 3:03 PM (GMT 0)
LOL! If the odor of the Valerian came through my skin like that, I do believe hubby would kick me out of bed!!! Giggle!
Posted 9/29/2011 12:11 AM (GMT 0)
Woodlandfrolicker:

I so know what you are talking about!! I too cannot for the life of me, fall asleep. One of my biggest problems with it is that everytime I feel myself drifting off, it's like fierce adrenalin rushes are coursing through my abdomen and sometimes my sides. It makes it impossible to go to sleep. Lately I have been on Zoplicone, one half tablet. That will get me to sleep, but I often will wake up in an hour or so. When my body is really electric, I take one half of a clonazepam, and that will sometimes get me five hours. It really is a problem. No sleep and you are guaranteed you are going to have a really bad day. In the beginning, all I did was sleep, now, couldn't get to sleep on my own if my life depended on it. The adrenalin thing has me really baffled though. I have spoken to my MD and my ND about it. I had a cortisol test, and it was high so they had me do it again with I forget the name of the drug, but it then was normal, so my doc wasn't concerned. It really makes your heart race and it is very uncomfortable. It makes me quickly sit up in bed. Very scarey! I'm sorry you are going through this as well, but this is the first time I have read that someone was also having this issue. I am hoping the non stop sleep will come back. It would be really nice to be able to take a nap during the day when I am so tired. Doesn't happen.
Posted 9/29/2011 6:22 AM (GMT 0)
Hmm... perhaps I'll give Melatonin another try. I've never had it while on Doxy. I tried it about a year ago and it made me depressed, but perhaps it's time for another go at it if the Phenibut doesn't work! I should get my shipment in the next few days!

Mold is definitely another thing I should look into (thanks for mentioning it, bucci!!), though I doubt there is a heck of a lot I can do about it! After Irene, our roof started leaking and now there are water stains on my bedroom ceiling... not to mention the mold all over the bathroom. Problem is, as renters, there's not a whole heck of a lot we can do besides scrub with anti-mold cleaners, which probably isn't all that affective on dry wall (or that good for my health in and of itself!!)! Now that I think of it, I was away in March in NC and slept better while I was there... I mean, not GREAT by ANY stretch of the imagination, but better. I wonder if mold is one of many factors...

@Maxine- you have no idea how comforting it feels to know there is someone out there dealing with the same thing!! What you described is exactly what happens to me... I can start to drift off, but then, "snap!" Either a jolt of electricity in the brain or a twitch in the neck which sends me straight back to consciousness. I believe this is actually happening even while I'm perceiving that I've "slept," which means I'm never reaching restful sleep. I had a sleep study done several years ago (before Lyme was even on my radar), and I was told then that I rarely make it past Stage 2 sleep and never make it to Stage 4... This would explain it.

I'm actually so used to the adrenalin now that the racing heart doesn't scare me anymore, though it sure did for a while!! The head racing isn't fun either and the combination of that with the intense fatigue makes it incredibly hard to focus and do much of anything... And I HEAR YOU about naps... I try SO HARD to take a nap with no success at all. Just more adrenalin. Eventually after about 4 days of sleeplessness I crash for 7-8 hrs- still with at least 4 awakenings, but usually enough solid sleep in between to feel "refreshed." LOL... if only MY "refreshed" were what other people call "refreshed..."

If anyone feels the need to vent about insomnia, please feel free to use me as a sounding board!! Sometimes it's just good to have people understand and commiserate... when it comes to insomnia, in my book, your pity party is welcome.

Keeping fingers madly crossed for my fresh shipment of "Phenibut"... saying a prayer for its safe travels to my mailbox and blessing its sleep inducing chemistry....lol... Phenibut.....what a bizarre name....
Posted 9/29/2011 7:03 AM (GMT 0)
Progesterone (for Women only...sorry guys!) and GABA are the only two substances on the planet that have ever done anything for my chronic life-long sleep issues (difficulty falling asleep, difficulty staying asleep, poor sleep quality). The GABA helps with difficulty falling asleep and improves the quality of my sleep; the Progesterone helps with all 3 (I tried them separately, that's how I know how each one helps me).
Posted 9/29/2011 2:12 PM (GMT 0)
For me the not being able to fall asleep/stay asleep/ feel refreshed is one of the most frustrating symptoms! There's so little that can be done! I think that the sleep thing complicates all of my other symptoms as well. I know that if I had a decent night's sleep then the pain would get to me as fast, and I don't think I would be having near the amount of issues with muscle cramps/spasms.

I have finally learned how to rest even if I can't sleep some days. When I am totally exhausted - again eyes- I lay down on the couch. I don't use the bed if I really don't believe that I can actually sleep, as then I get really upset if I can't even rest decently -not sure why? Maybe just because I am so tired??

Anyway, I lay down on the couch and just make myself not toss and turn - I'm only laying down, not trying to go to sleep is what I tell myself. If I can stay there - eyes closed, being still - for at least 20 minutes, I actually feel a bit better the rest of the day. Of course I have way too many days where I can't even do that much, but when I can, I lie down to just 'rest a bit'.

I would have gone ahead and ranted, but I'm not sure I could stop with just one rant today!! smilewinkgrin


Interesting information, Razzle!! Thanks - as always!
Posted 9/30/2011 12:43 AM (GMT 0)
I too Suffer from insomnia. It got bade couple weeks ago and have found milk and cherries are a great before bed snack to keep me asleep. Cherries naturally contain melatonin.
Posted 10/9/2011 3:39 AM (GMT 0)
See my latest post... So far, so good!!!

Maxine, seeing that what you're dealing with sounds so much like me, you may want to give this a try...!!
Posted 1/25/2013 10:07 PM (GMT 0)
I have been using Phenitropic for about two weeks and it is nothing short of miraculous. Best $27 I have ever spent. I sleep all night long with no hangover effect. My chiropractor recommended it and it is great.

 

Posted 1/25/2013 11:33 PM (GMT 0)
Had similar struggles with sleep and tried lots of things like no screen time after 8:00, guided meditation, switching to a different bedroom, bathes, etc. Finally gave in to taking an Herbal Blend my LLND recommended because he said I wouldn't heal without sleep. It wasn't 100% but minimally addictive and finally got enough rest to start turning things around.

I hope this new med works for you and you get some relief soon.
Posted 1/26/2013 1:12 AM (GMT 0)
I realize this sounds strange and I put it in a previous post but my body pretty much started showing that it was shutting down when I wasn't on abx....muscle spasms, a lot of pain, and the last one to show up...insomnia 1 hour a night. went on an antibiotic and voila, all symptoms ceased. Just a thought.
Posted 9/28/2016 4:42 AM (GMT 0)
My mom takes medical marihuana pills and oil
and she said she is more relaxed and can sleep
through the night. She had many of the symptoms
listed here. I will take PheniTropic as my doctor
recomended first and if it doesn't work I will get
my medical card for medical marihuana so I can
get some restful sleep.

Wishing all of you sucess in overcoming watever is
keeping you up at night.
Posted 9/28/2016 5:02 AM (GMT 0)
Hi HealthyThoughts...welcome to our community.

This is an old thread from 2013 - most of the posters are no longer posting on the forum.

That's great that you mom had found medical marijuana helps her sleep.

is your mom currently treating her Lyme disease?
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