Diflucan/Lyme

Hi All:

Just received my first prescriptions for treatment of Lyme and it includes Doxy (no suprise), Nystatin and Diflucan.  Because my doc believes I may have a pre-existing Candida issue (and I did develop a HORRIBLE yeast infection after a course of Cipro last year), he's wisely counseling the use of Nystatin, Diflucan and probiotics as well as a low/no-sugar diet.  I get all of this. 

As someone who's rather opposed to antibiotics (yeah, yeah, I know--Lyme Disease is definitely NOT a good fit for me in this respect!), I'm most concerned about the Diflucan.  The adverse effects warnings on the packaging from the pharmacy indicate that it can cause some pretty serious side effects.  The dr.'s own literature says that I will have to be monitored while on it "to make sure my body is tolerating it".  I've also read in several dofferent places that it is can be very toxic to the liver.  And herein lies the rub.  I have pretty significant MCS and have an added layer of concern about taking anything since I'm reacting to a LOT of things in my environment.  To add context, I lost my job as a result of a workplace exposure and have not worked for over a year and a half now.  I spend 85-90 percent of my time in my home because of my reactivity.  My LLMD is aware of this and even believes that my MCS (Multiple Chemical Sensitivity) may be related to an underlying Lyme issue. 

Is there anyone out there who's taken Diflucan and can you please tell me about your experiences (good and bad)?  I understand from online research and in chatting with other Lymies that it is thought that Diflucan is not only a systemic yeast killer but may also attack and kill Lyme organisms because it interferes with their cytochrome P450 system.  Oddly enough, that's what many MCS patients are deficient in.  So, I'm a little concerned about it negatively impacting my already compromised detox capabilities and exacerbating an already delicate MCS condition.  I am on an MCS treatment protocol (just recently started) and so this may help to mitigate any negative effects but I'd still appreciate hearing from folks about Diflucan and whether they had any issues/adverse effects.

Cheers and Thanks!

Hi Traveler:

Thanks for your response.  I do realize that there are non-abx. therapies which I would probably prefer.  I think you and I have traded messages on this before when I posted shortly after diagnosis.  If memory serves, you are following the non-abx. approach, is that right?  I addressed this with my doc. who said that essentially he feels the abx. are necessary and that the patients he's seen going the herbal route have had major herxes but not a corresponding improvement in their condition.  I'm happy to solicit an opposing opinion on this.  Have you found this to be true with your own situation or in hearing lots of feedback from others on the listserv? 

Can I ask generally (if you're willing to share) what you're doing in terms of herbs?  Also, have you tried Rife?  I have been hearing reports from a couple of others--one who is late stage and who went the oral abx. only route with some improvement but then plateaued.  She's now rifing and is reporting some benefits. 

Any info. on an alternate, non-abx. path would be GREATLY appreciated as I weigh my options. 

Cheers!

I'm not sure why doc's are saying Diflucan can treat Lyme - Diflucan (fluconazole) is an anti-fungal. I looked it up on Pubmed and it does say that it can be used to treat meningitis, but what it doesn't say is whether it treats a bacterial meningitis (which is what we can get) or viral meningitis which is more common. I would suspect that it would only treat the viral though, as an anti-bacterial or antibiotic would be needed to treat the bacterial source.

***Let me start this off by saying if you are a person who is against the use of herbs, please don't bother reading this next part. This is intended only for Norsk Hiker and those who are interested in hearing about how well herbs can work.***

Norsk Hiker,
I'm glad you want to know what all the options are!

I do really hate to argue with doc's, but I'm the exact opposite of what your doc says would happen with herbals alone. Although I do have to say that when I tried using abx for the treatment of Lyme, I got so very ill. I stayed on them for a full year and only got worse - even started having seizures and all of my cognitive function was severely compromised. It was bad. That's why I wanted to try herbals.

I have used the herbal Lyme treatment for a total of 9 months and my Bartonella treatment for 6 months. Although, we aren't sure if I have actually taken it long enough yet. We stopped the Lyme and Bartonella treatments (my symptoms were pretty much under control) so that I could start my Babsesia treatment.

My doc doesn't feel that herxes do anyone any good (I love my doc! ) - so we have been careful to avoid them and I haven't had a bad herx since I started with her, only a few minor ones as far as severity of symptoms go.

As for my improvements -my hubby and my daughter have declared that it's very impressive the improvements that I have made so far - and I agree!! When I started my Lyme treatment, I was housebound with little to no energy, stamina, or brain function (literally - I couldn't even follow written instructions). I couldn't tolerate temperatures below 72 or above 78 as my body had trouble regulating my body temp. At that point in time I was living with all but 20 of the symptoms in the "Master Symptom List" that can be found in the "New to Lyme?" thread. Now? Well, now the list of improvements - both major and minor is quite long!!!

I literally went from being 'locked' in my house to living outside practically last summer and fall, getting livestock again and helping to build our barn!!! And it's not just me that has had great progress with herbs and other natural means of healing. I have read many accounts by people who have found that natural protocols have helped them the most.

I have not used the Rife method - the machine is costly and I just can't afford it, but I would sure try it if I could! I have paid attention to those who post in threads about Rife and have asked enough questions to understand the healing that they are finding as well. It's worth looking into.

As for what herbs I use - please remember that I see a Chinese Medicine Doc, but she is also a Western Herbalist. For my Bartonella, the only herb we used was Houttuynia - the whole leaf not capsules. I used only 3 grams in 3 cups of boiling water, steeped for 10 minutes, split into 3 doses that I drank.

My Lyme treatment was not Chinese Medicine at all. It can be found on this site www.mistymeadows.org/wendy.htm. Click on the tile that says "Lyme Disease: a Practitioners Experience and Discovery". My doc modified the recipe a bit, but the one I used is the 'Lyme Defense Tea' on page 76. The modifications were just that I didn't do the overnight infusion, I made fresh tea every day using 13 grams of the mixture of herbs (in the amounts given in the recipe) to 4 cups of water, allowed it to steep for 30 minutes and drank 1 cup four times a day.

My Babesia treatment is being done in Chinese medicine, but I'd be happy to share that as well if you are interested.

Don't get me wrong - it hasn't been all roses and happy times. I've struggled from time to time, but my improvements have been so dramatic that it's not hard to keep myself on track once things settle down.

For more info on 'natural' protocols, here is where you can find a list and some info on several - www.lymediseaseresource.com/Protocols.html

I gotta run, I've got an appt with my doc this morning. If you have any questions or need me to clarify anything, please don't hesitate to ask!

Diflucan has been wonderful for me.

I was on clarithromycin & plaquenil and felt awful, kept having heart issues, then nightmares, mystery bruising. Long story short, yeast on my tongue, LLMD said "if you have it on your tongue, you can have it elsewhere, so let's clear the playing field so we can treat the Lyme properly".

I took 2x 200mg of Diflucan, After 12 days I had a big 5-day herx as the yeast-died off. The herx was so awful that the LLMD reduced the Diflucan to 1x 200mg/day. I have been taking this dose now for a further three weeks and feel great.

The heart issues stopped on the 2nd day of Diflucan. Almost all the Lyme pain is suppressed, I only have some small twinges in my left hand and left leg.

The squiggly black lines in my eyes are almost gone, my tinnitus is less.

The LLMD said that Fluconazole is bacteriostatic against Lyme, so does not kill it, but stops growth.

The Diflucan has taken care of the systemic yeast issue I had, which was causing as many, if not more, problems than the Lyme.

Only side effects which may be the Diflucan is sometimes I have a bit of a stomach ache, and when I was taking 2x/day I suspect it was causing some constipation. Otherwise, it's been all good.

I have another 12 days of it to take, then it's back on abx, and I am dreading them, though know they're needed for the Lyme.

I've seen it mentioned on other boards and in Lyme-patient discussions. (which isn't "scientific" of course, but it means there are other LLMDs out there with the same belief)

I've seen mention of a study by a German doctor, Schardt, where he used Diflucan to cure neuroborreliosis (but it was only a study of 11 patients) (so more than just bacteriostatic in this case).

http://www.canlyme.com/diflucan.html

I can ask my LLMD next time I see him, but all I can say is that on the Diflucan, I barely have any symptoms from the Lyme at all....

Just to be clear, I've been given the Diflucan to combat systemic yeast, not as the main therapy for Lyme. When the doc told me over the phone to stop all abx and take only Diflucan and I was concerned about being "exposed", he told me not to worry.

... and all the creepy heart stuff is GONE, so whatever it's doing, it's helping :)

Oh, I might also add that Flagyl, that is often used in combination therapies, is also an "azole"... (metronidazole) and it is considered an antibiotic rather than an anti-fungal. Also, miconazole, another "azole" is used for both yeast and bacterial gyno-infections... so, I'm no scientist, but it implies that the "azoles" might "swing both ways"??

Thanks for your feedback on your experiences, Scandic. I greatly appreciate it. Very glad to hear that you are tolerating Diflucan so well. I'm not so sure about it myself as I just finished reading some pretty scary reviews by folks who were prescribed it and had some significant adverse effects. Like you, I've had my share of reactions to meds. (some of these even BEFORE MCS) and I'm not so sure I'm willing to 'roll the dice' with a medication my MCS doc. characterized as 'toxic'. I'm inclined to believe her since even the LLMD's literature indicates I will require 'monitoring' lab work while on it to ensure there are no problems. I've just recently started feeling better on the MCS protocol and regaining some of the functionality that I've lost and which I value highly. There are actually hints of what I refer to as 'the old me' re-appearing and I'd like to keep marching toward the light :0)

In answer to your question, I'm on the Ziem/Pall protocol which involves a bunch of supplements and, at least at this point, avoidance of synthetic chemicals/fragrance/etc. It's a long-term therapy and I've only been on the protocol for a little over a month. I've noticed some very minor improvement already and am guardedly optimistic. Cross your fingers for me!!

Wishing everyone on here continued improvement in their condition and good health. I can't thank you all enough for sharing your stories and experiences.

Cheers!

Best of luck to you Norsk! Baby steps will work also - that's how I've gotten to where I am. Hang in there.

HI Norsk!
I am never adverse to having any member email me directly!! I am driven to help anyone that thinks I might have some info that would help them find healing!! Please do email me when you are up to it!

OH! and thank you for your kind words!

i start 400 mg once a day for 21 days for systemic candida. i'm very excited to finally and hopefully rid myself of the candida. i won't be eating any sugar, sweeteners or grains for the 21 days. i am already sugar free and white flour free as it is. i tried everything naturally to rid myself of the candida and nothing has worked. i'll keep you posted.

p.s i have chrinic lyme. bit in 2009 in new jersey while camping in the bush. had the rash. doctor told me the rash was "nothing". igenex tested negative but with the +'s and INDs it is a Positive result for lyme long with the rash. i treat with chinese herbs and knotweed/cats claw/teasel tinctures.

thanks

cynthia