An alternative to NutraMedix Samento (hint: cat's claw)

First I want to clarify that I am not affiliated with any company or medicine, I have no vested interest in anything except for whatever will make people feel better, in the cheapest way possible for them. Also, I am not a doctor, I just have done lots of reading and research, and I have my own experience.

I've been taking Samento and Banderol (by NutraMedix) since january of this year with great results. However, at full dose, each bottle lasts 2 weeks or less, so it runs about $150 a month for that combo.

I found a substitute for the Samento that seems to work just as well, if not better. It is Cat's Claw extract. As far as I know, Samento is derived from Cat's Claw -- it's effectively the same thing. Except you can get 120 capsules of cat's claw for $15. At 2 capsules a day, that is $15 for 2 months. Compared to 4 bottles of samento over two months, which is $150.

.....

I feel near 100% after continuing this treatment for a while, and in some ways, better than before. I actually have some suspicion that I had Lyme (or parasites, or co-infections) for several years, and my tick bite last year just made it worse and unmanageable. That is why I seem to get better and better and better while I continue this treatment. And looking back, I remember this is not the first tick I pulled off, and I've had low energy for years that I always attributed to "just being depressed."

I tried abx in the beginning which wasn't cutting it, and I've tried a lot of supplements, vitamins, and minerals. Basically experimented on myself. What has helped me the most, is the Nattokinase & Serrapeptase enzymes (both pretty cheap), and the samento (now cat's claw), plus the banderol. I have not found a substitute for banderol yet, but switching the samento for cat's claw has cut my monthly bill almost in half. :)

I am continuing to take the enzymes and CC/Banderol for little while longer because there are no bad side effects as far as I can tell, or as far as I have read.

For those not familiar with samento & banderol - here is a good article for you. It talks about samento and banderol as a likely treatment for lyme:
www.townsendletter.com/July2010/sapi0710.html


And here is the link to the cat's claw product I am using:
www.amazon.com/Foods-Cats-Claw-Extract-Vegcaps/dp/B0013OXCJI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339621485&sr=8-1


I understand everyone's disease and situation is different, but if you haven't tried this treatment yet, it is definitely one worth trying.

Also, whatever exercise you can get, will help, in my experience... as long as you don't push yourself too far. Go slowly and quit when you are tired, but just do something regularly -- if at all possible.

*Another side note. If you haven't tried this treatment and plan to start, it may be better to start with samento instead of the cat's claw, because you can work your way up slowly with a few drops here and there. With the cat's claw, you're getting a full dose up front. I never experienced a lot of "herxing" but I know that some people herx on just a few drops of samento and can't handle the full dose for quite a while, for whatever reasons. If you get up to the full dose of samento/banderol though, substituting the samento drops for the cat's claw capsule is something to consider.

I wish you all well in your healing. Sorry if this post was a little long and unorganized, I just kinda typed it out as it came to me.

-one more thing I forgot. I tried a cat's claw tincture that I found on amazon, it was also cheap and came in 2oz bottles instead of the 1oz bottles from nutramedix. However, it was working noticeably less well, and I realized why: the cat's claw extract in capsules is at least 3x more potent. I would suggest the "NOW" brand capsules over the "Nature's Answer" brand tincture.

Post Edited (skBM) : 6/13/2012 3:27:40 PM (GMT-6)

knuks said...
skBM, what are your doses of each thing you're taking? Carol

30-60 mins before eating
Serrapeptase 2 x (40,000 IU)
Nattokinase 2 x (2,000 FU)

With or after food
Cats claw - 1 x (334mg capsule) - concentrated 10:1 so multiply by 10x when comparing to 1:1 cat's claw
Banderol - 30 drops



That's it. Twice a day.

There is some mild controversy about whether Samento (TOA-free cat's claw) is superior to regular cat's claw. Buhner deals some with this in his book, "Healing Lyme." Buhner says it doesn't matter whether the TOA is removed from the cat's claw.

IMHO, go with what works for you. If you feel like you are making progress on regular cat's claw, then that's what is working and so stick with it. But if the Samento gives you better results, then probably need to go that way instead.

No need for Lumbrokinase or Serrapeptase when taking Banderol and Samento according to Dr. Eva Sapi - the herbs dissolve the biofilm as well : see the pictures at the Townsend Letter referred to by skBM in original post.

Also I have found that pulsing is important...there are lots of differing veiwpoints on how often or how long but I find a week to 10 days every month works well (I judge by the herxing. No herxing - no die-off).

Additionally it is critical to get rid of and keep parasites out of your body as much as possible. Cowden uses Enula by Nutramedix, Premier Research has a fantastic protocol for full parasite treatment. HumaWorm is good and Grandma's Herbs makes a good one too. The spirochetes will hide in any parasite large or small and then re-infect you after you feel cured. Also tests don't cover the many, many different kinds of parasites that may reside in your body especially if you are fond of sushi or any raw meat. Frozen is better than fresh as freezing kills parasites and then it is safe for sushi or cooking extremely rare.

Buying Resourses are listed on my website LymeDiseaseResource DOT com

Blessings,

Jenna

JennaS said...
No need for Lumbrokinase or Serrapeptase when taking Banderol and Samento according to Dr. Eva Sapi - the herbs dissolve the biofilm as well : see the pictures at the Townsend Letter referred to by skBM in original post.

I disagree.
Sapi's work was based on in-vitro observations.
In-vivo, things are usually a bit more complicated (as most pharmaceutical research also shows).
For once it doesn;t take into account how the herb is matabolised and distributed around the body.
Secondly, you need to obtain a similar blood/tissue concentration of the herb and that is much much more difficult. Then, a lot of us have problems with hypercoagulation and/or poor peripheral perfusion so systemic enzymes can help overcome that obstacle and make the herbs reach much deeper.
The same applies to antibiotics which often fail due to poor tissue penetration.
Nattokinase at 10,000FU-20,000FU daily is very effective. Boluoke possibly even more.

rns said...

JennaS said...
No need for Lumbrokinase or Serrapeptase when taking Banderol and Samento according to Dr. Eva Sapi - the herbs dissolve the biofilm as well : see the pictures at the Townsend Letter referred to by skBM in original post.

I disagree.
Sapi's work was based on in-vitro observations.
In-vivo, things are usually a bit more complicated (as most pharmaceutical research also shows).
For once it doesn;t take into account how the herb is matabolised and distributed around the body.
Secondly, you need to obtain a similar blood/tissue concentration of the herb and that is much much more difficult. Then, a lot of us have problems with hypercoagulation and/or poor peripheral perfusion so systemic enzymes can help overcome that obstacle and make the herbs reach much deeper.
The same applies to antibiotics which often fail due to poor tissue penetration.
Nattokinase at 10,000FU-20,000FU daily is very effective. Boluoke possibly even more.

I have noticed positive effects from the natto/serra enzymes that I wasn't getting with the herbal combination alone.

10,000-20,000FU of natto seems like a high dose. I was taking about 8,000FU. Do you have any links to more info on these enzymes?

There is something else that needs to be cleared up as well. No herxing does not mean there is no die off. Herxing only means that your body is overloaded with toxins, not that there is no die off.

Ok, thanks. I do something similar for dosages. It's good to be cautious, but dosage recommendations aren't perfect, because everyone has different degrees of absorption and unique health circumstances.

Hi, sorry I never replied, I missed your post. I am still taking banderol and cat's claw and find them to be very helpful. But they do not "cure" my infection. If I stop these, I become ill again within a few days.

I am going to a more specialized doctor soon and plan to go on antibiotics for a longstanding bartonella/protozoan infection. I believe this is one major reason why I'm not healing permanently.

Also, I completely agree with the above posters "rns" and HeathersDad. I stopped using enzymes for a while, and when I started them again, I feel consistently better, and my treatment seems to be more consistently effective. No herbs I've tried (and I've tried probably hundreds by now) have really done what nattokinase/serrapeptase have done.

I have also realized that the natto and serra enzymes work somewhat differently in the body. Either one may work better for your individual condition. You also may need to experiment with dosage. As far as I've seen, overdosing is not a huge concern with either of these enzymes, so you can try more than the recommended amount. I boosted my dosing of nattokinase and saw a real positive effect. The only real complications would be if you're taking a prescription blood thinner medication in addition to nattokinase (dont do that). Also if you are at risk of bleeding, like if you play a lot of sports or have a risky job or something, you probably dont want to take a high dose of natto, because then you're at higher risk for blood loss or bruising.

I have read somewhere that serrapeptase works more in the tissues, and natto works more in the blood vessels. I have a lot of reason to believe that is true. The two of them together may work much better, or you may only need one. It is possible (though this is mostly speculation) that serrapeptase may damage some healthy tissue. But the risk of this is low, and if serrapeptase helps you be healthy, the benefits would most likely outweigh this risk. My point here is just don't take it if you don't need to, and only take as much as you need to feel better. Consulting with a knowledgeable and perceptive doctor can help, but as most of us here know, sometimes you just dont have that option.

Post Edited (skBM) : 7/24/2014 5:55:52 PM (GMT-6)

Hi All, My question is; does anyone find normal Cat's claw more calming then Samento? And if so, can you please share the brand etc.

Thanks a lot!!

Hi, I know this is an older thread, but what can be used if you are either on blood thinners or if you bleed easily? Seems some of the key substances like Cat's Claw and Nattokinase are contraindicated. What can take their place in this situation? Thanks!

Thank you for that information!