Lyme disease cannot become resistant to antibiotics? (person to person)

There is the issue of doctors not willing to prescribe antibiotics to patients with Lyme disease for more than a month sometimes. 1) Is it because doctors are afraid the Lyme bacteria will develop resistance to it? The only way it can from person to person would be if a person was bitten by an infected tick and the person took antibiotics for a short amount of time to where they were not fully cured and another tick bit the still infected person and built up resistance to the antibiotics from the persons blood and then the tick infected another person, and so on. This seems highly unlikely! Lyme doesn't pass from person to person. It is a "closed" infection vector. Is this why doctors are afraid to prescribe the APPROPRIATE amount and duration of antibiotics? ----OR----
2) Are doctors afraid of the effect of long term use of Abx on the liver? -----OR----
3) Are doctors afraid of the patients themselves becoming resistant to antibiotics?

PEOPLE WHO HAVE T.B. OR AIDS ARE PRESCRIBED DIFFERENT MEDICATIONS FOR MONTHS OR YEARS.

****WHAT IS THE HUGE ISSUE WITH LYME DISEASE???!!!!****

Many people are resistant to antibiotics and for good reasons:  most foods that people eat contain antibiotics, and after a while, the body simply does not respond to antibiotics..  Does that mean people should switch the antibiotics around?  I don't know.. It makes sense to me that even if one does switch it around, that person's body will become resistant...

I am a strong believer in holistic medicine as that is what makes sense to me and helped me rid my body of lyme bacteria as well as other ailments.  Herbs that are not sprayed with chemicals work wonders if they are the "right" herbs or botanicals.

Growing up I was given antibiotics for over 50 years because that's what doctors believed in especially in the U.S.  Whenever I had swollen glands, ear infections, sore throats, dental work, etc. I was given antibiotics like they were candy...  No wonder my body became totally resistant to them.

I built up my immune system by eating right, exercising, detoxing, taking certain supplements (my favorite is Green Vibrance) and I believe the body can and will kill bacteria on it's own...

Oh yes, we think our bodies are stupid but the truth is our bodies are brilliant... Our bodies let us know when something is wrong, our bodies tell us when we don't feel good or feel really good!  After a good workout, I feel great and my body lets me know that!   After a detox bath (dry skin brushing first) I feel super!  And my body lets me know that...

Denise

P.S.:  I suggest listening to Dr. Thomas Rau's lecture (Edit: about 1 hour and 20 minutes video) on lyme disease at the Marion Institute in MA, very enlightening to say the least:

http://www.marioninstitute.org/biological-medicine-network/resources/videos/dr-thomas-rau-lyme-disease-talk

 

Hi Educate yourself,

No, I don't give all the credit to how I took care of myself because for many years I was so sick that I could "not" take care of myself and I lived alone and had no help (I do not mean to imply that I felt sorry for myself though I did have those days).  I barely made it through each day mostly bedridden and for a long time lost the use of my legs.  I don't even want to remember the pain I was in.

What I did was research like crazy...  (yep, I was one stubborn lady) after going to most every doctor within a 60 mile radius for over 5 years and none of them could tell me what was wrong with me.  I became so frustrated (and I was in so much pain) that I stepped back in time and typed up a timeline of when I first started to feel sick including what I was doing and what my symptoms were.   Then I started to research and everything I looked at said lyme and ehrlichiosis (and yes, that's what I had)...  My research paid off.

From there I started letting my fingers do the walking and called people who knew about PCR testing, etc.  No one knew what I was talking about!  Finally I found this nurse that I knew that did dark field microscopy and I saw her.  I watched my own spirochetes on her monitor.  And then I was sent to an ID doctor who sent my blood to IgeneX (I never heard of IgeneX until this doctor).  He tried to help me but I was getting worse. 

I then joined a lyme forum (not this one) and someone mentioned Dr. Jernigan and his book.  I bought his book and it made so much sense to me and took his botanicals.  Within 4 weeks I felt a huge difference!  So I continued with his protocol...  I have been symptom-free since then.

If I had to do it all over again, I think I would have started with just detoxing first knowing what I know now..  Why?  Because by detoxing alone, I would have started to build up my immune system and got rid of the poisons in my body that was causing so much pain.  Then I would have started taking Dr. J's botanicals. 

I remember when I first heard the word "detox", I though the other members were crazy!  They talked about the baths, the coffee enema's, etc.  I wished I had taken these people more seriously back then but I didn't..  Of course now I know better...

As far as people spreading lyme to each other, of course they do! Lyme is sexually transmitted, is transmitted to a fetus, breast-feeding, etc. 

Also, many people with AIDS and other diseases are finally realizing how much alternative or holistic medicine really does work compared to conventional medicine including cancer survivors.

I hope you find the answers you are looking for....  Wishing you and everyone else good health!

Denise

As MeGoSun said, the reason for doc's only prescribing one month of abx at a time is fear - fear that they will be brought up on charges and loose everything they have. Many doc's have already gone through this - which is part of the reason we don't post doctors names here, and why we have so few LLMD's.

As for these infections being able to be passed from one person to another, it can and does happen. A mother can pass these infections to her unborn child all too easily, and live spirochetes have been found in semen. Some want to say that it was only one time that it was found, but how many times does it really have to be documented before we believe it? Who would want to take that chance?

It's like giving blood or donating organs - once you have these infections, a person isn't doing anyone any favors by still doing those things! These infections can be passed in blood, and organ transplants have been the cause of these infections in some people! Why would we want to ignore these facts and pass these infections on to others once we have experienced what it feels like to have one?

The 'huge' issue - as I see it - is that IDSA and the insurance co's have no desire to be proven wrong - no matter what the scientific data states - or to have to pay for the treatments, so they back each other up. Since Lyme is an infectious disease, most everyone who hasn't had to deal with these infections, say that the rest is just hype -even though it's not. Now even the CDC has taken a stance that is hostile to the scientific data! Think back on how the AIDS patients had to "rise up" in great numbers before finally being recognized. That's going to be how this goes as well I believe, though it's a real shame that people so ill are the ones who have to do the 'rising up'.

Here is California's Lyme organization's take on this matter:
lymedisease.org/news/lymepolicywonk/index.1.html
Please sign the petition to have the IDSA's guidelines removed while you are there!!

Hi Educate Yourself,

I think there is a huge amount of misunderstanding about what antibiotic resistance means. An individual human cannot become resistant to antibiotics, as antibiotics do not affect us in the first place! The problem with long-term antibiotics is that any bacteria within the body can become resistant to the drugs, especially when the drugs are broad spectrum.

Every bacterial strain is slightly different, and within each strain there are lots of individuals. A bit like how some people have better or weaker immune systems, some individual bacteria are better able to withstand certain antibiotics. If you have, for example, a chest infection and treat with antibiotics then some individual bacteria will die faster than others. This is why you normally need to treat over a period of time, not just one day. What happens, is that people often feel better quite quickly from a simple infection, and will stop the antibiotics before they finish the course. This leaves the strongest bacteria still alive, which then multiply. What you can then end up with is a much stronger strain that is resistant to antibiotics. When this happens repeatedly in a population then you end up with stronger and stronger bacteria which are able to resist conventional treatments e.g. MRSA. This would be the case for any potential form of treatment (antibiotics, herbals etc - anything that kills bacteria can cause resistance).

I have not seen any particularly strong evidence for antibiotic resistance in lyme disease. I have only been on doxy and tinidazole and not noticed any decline in the effectiveness over time. What is a problem, however, is the use of any long-term anti-bacterial agents on other types of bacteria living naturally in our bodies. These drugs lead to the development of resistant bacteria (such as c.difficile), which in extreme cases can be deadly. This is a particular problem when IV antibiotics are being used, as there is more chance of bad infections getting into the body. This is likely to be a threat confined to the period of treatment, as it is the treatment which suppresses friendly bacteria and encourages the resistant bacteria to flourish. You will recolonise with good bacteria very quickly after treatment ends (kissing is good!!!).

I suppose it just comes down to a balance of risk. I have taken longterm antibiotics knowing that it could be potentially harmful, but in the knowledge that it has made me well again. If you are sick enough to need this then it is worth the risk. Oh, and there are potential individual side-effects with all individual drugs (again, herbal or conventional) - for example, tinidazole has been linked to cancer and permenant nerve damage. But, again, it has made me well again so I thought it was worth it. Check all the detailed info about side-effects, drug interactions etc before choosing an option, but remember that these risks are just as great with herbal treatments as antibiotics, as they work in similar ways i.e. they kill bacteria!

Good luck,

Kirsty

 

The one thing that I didn't realize when I wrote this post, but I definitely do now, is that there seems to be the "antibiotic crowd" and the "herbal crowd".

Hi Deejavu- I was merely pointing out that people themselves cannot be resistant to antibiotics, but bacteria can become resistant to drugs (antibiotics or herbals). This makes a massive everyday difference to the issue of antibiotic resistance, and is often misunderstood. The link you posted agrees with me, so I assume that you misunderstood my original post? I'll try to be clearer next time. I have an MSc in biological science and sometimes get too technical, sorry

Educate Yourself - yes, most people seem to go one way or the other, probably because many herbals and antibiotics don't mix well. But, you have to work out what is right for you, and what you feel comfortable with. There is a lot of poor info out there on the internet, so I would recommend reading widely and not being too swayed by individual opinions or cure stories. Sometimes you need to try a few different things before getting a combination that works for your particular circumstances....

Yes, I am realizing that when dealing with Lyme disease, there is no absolute "cookie cutter" approach for treatment which makes it that much tougher filtering through all the information out there.
It would be interesting to have a new headline thread under the "new to Lyme thread" where past members who have been symptom free for years, would share there treatment plan (what worked for them and what didn't ); sort of like an organized data base. Most of the useful information on this Lyme thread is disorganized and is strictly organized by time. ----any moderators listening??-----

Morning all,

Educate, most past members do not come back and that makes me sad because I wish they would.  Some I keep in touch with through e-mails or telephone.  Or they go to forums where alternative medicine is mostly talked about. 

And there is no cookie cutter approach as you said.  I think the best thing is for every individual to be their own advocate and read books, learn, learn, learn!  From my own personal experience most doctors are limited in knowledge.  How many doctors tell their patients about detoxing?  Maybe some... 

My motto is this:  Try a protocol and after 6 months if it's not working then move on and try a totally different protocol.  Sadly this is what we need to do in my opinion. 

The only cookie cutter approach is detoxing no matter what protocol one is using.

MeGoSun,

I know people that never took 1 antibiotic in their life for chronic lyme and totally became well (they were totally against putting antibiotics in their body).  That may seem strange but it's true. 

I guess one needs to look at what antibiotics are made from?  Does anyone really know?  Why is it so hard to find this out?  From my research antibiotics are made from synthetic plant material (that match the plants or herbs that were found to kill bacteria) with chemical binders.  If anyone has more information about this I would be really interested.

Anyway, it seems like most people who became totally well for years first used antibiotics then switched over to herbs or alternative medicine.  Also exercise played a huge role in healing as well as diet.

Denise