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In reference to antibiotics vs. herbals

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Posted 12/7/2012 1:51 AM (GMT 0)
So there was a thread previously on here and it was long and my reply didn't really pertain to the entire post so I started a new one.

Some suggested that antibiotics are proven, and highly effective and that herbal stuff isn't nearly as effective. It is my opinion that is crazy. I mean, first of all - antibiotics originally emerged in the medical field from someone stumbling on mold and observing antibacterial properties-literally, that's it. Are they highly effective and have saved tons of lives-Yes, of course. BUT they have been around for what ~150 years and already losing their efficiency?? Too be honest I don't even really think you can compare the two. Herbs have been around for thousands of years...thousands. And there are tons of reputable scientific papers showing the effectiveness - some even more effective than antibiotics. The downside is they seem to take longer to be effective, requires a longer amount of time to be on them, and I'm sure more.

Personally, I'm going to do both herbals and abx, I believe in both. Whether one is better than the other or worse -like I said, is really comparing apples with oranges.
Posted 12/7/2012 4:46 AM (GMT 0)
Something being "natural" does not imply that it is somehow safer than a compound synthesized in a lab. A treatment being around for thousands of years says nothing about its legitimacy or efficacy. If an herb kills bactieria, then it is an antibiotic.

I try to avoid the dubious herbal vs pharma debate, as it's a debate that largely misses the point; these aren't two competing visions. Botanicals that go through the rigor of the scientific method and are proven effective eventually get synthesized in a lab and incorporated in the lexicon of modern medicine. This process removes other ineffective, harmful or just unknown secondary chemicals from the original substance and ensures a consistent dose of the active ingredient. There are surely hundreds of effective herbs that are being used as part of alternative treatments that have simply not had the time and resources devoted to prove their efficacy beyond a doubt scientifically. When (and if) this testing is done, they will also be snatched up by some biotech company and turned into a profit generating product.
You can take a moral stand on this or allow your personal philosophy to guide your treatment decisions, but there is no reason to turn it into a zero sum game.
Posted 12/7/2012 3:38 PM (GMT 0)
Spall-I'm not sure why you feel the need to attack. I don't even mention natural in my post nor do I mention anything about safety or morals?

You entirely missed the point of my post. I was using the term Antibiotics in the "connotative" sense -as in laboratory produced. This is what most people think of when they hear the term "antibiotics." BUT - abx did emerge from something natural,  mold. So yes, they have been around for thousands of years but no, not the synthesized version. When I say herbs have been around for thousands of years I was speaking of medicinal use of herbs has been around for thousands of years.

This post isn't meant to be a debate - I'm curious how others feel about it, their opinion - not how others feel about my personal opinion thank you.

I also don't mention that herbal is better than abx but somehow you assume this on my post- even though I say that I believe in both and don't think one is better or worse than the other...I agree with everything you state in your second paragraph - that is all pretty common knowledge.

 

I'm glad you agree with me that they aren't in competition with each other but there are lots of people that assume that newer is better - that synthesized abx are better. And no, I don't agree with that. Apples and oranges. I'm sure all those people that got meningitis from shots might have something to say about the safety of synthesized drugs...I worked in a third party GLP lab where all we did was identify/test contaminated drugs and that company's business is booming...

Posted 12/7/2012 4:25 PM (GMT 0)
I'm sorry if you thought anything I said was personally driven; I didn't mean anything I said as an attack. You were specifically comparing the efficacy of synthetic antibiotics to herbal treatments (I presumed antibiotics). My response was a very brief summary of my beliefs on the subject, prefaced by a quick list of the most common logical fallacies I find brought to bear on the subject (ie appeal to tradition). Assuming "newer is better" is just as faulty as assuming the opposite.

When I'm talking about subjective things like symptoms I can be colorful, amusing and anecdotal but tend to get a little cold and mechanical when getting into the nuts and bolts of treatment. I'm not trying to start an argument or talk down to anyone; I just try to be as clear and concise as possible.

Post Edited (Spall) : 12/7/2012 9:29:42 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/28/2013 5:00 PM (GMT 0)
my 2 cents here, I have tried everything for lyme, oral doxy, IV and herbal and I am now 100% herbal. the doxy didnt even touch the lyme, the IV caused a stroke and also didnt touch the lyme. After 9 months of herbals back in 2008 I finally reached remission. I dont even see a medical doctor anymore, I go to my herbalist for everything.
Posted 1/28/2013 9:12 PM (GMT 0)
This is a highly personal choice. Many have found healing using herbal/holistic means, many have found healing using abx, and many have found healing using both. There is no one size fits most and there is no "right" way for all to follow.

The decision on which route to go needs to be thought over carefully after a great deal of discussion with that person's Practitioner to determine which will likely be most effective for that person.

This forum supports those who use Pharmaceutical and/or natural abx. as equally as possible.
Posted 1/28/2013 10:58 PM (GMT 0)
I agree traveler. If any one thing worked, none of us would still be sick. There are many strains of Lyme and the co-infections. So far I've tried abx's, Hansa, Dr Klinghardts, Cowden and a few other's, none of which have worked so far for me but I continue to try any other options I come across because I continue to hope that someone I'll regain my life and get out of this bed.
Posted 1/28/2013 11:05 PM (GMT 0)
PrayingForAMiracle,

I just want to thank you for the kind and civil manner with which you craft your posts. Undoubtedly you have spent a fortune so far, but yet you have not become bitter or attacked anyone. You are a fine example for us all!

In saying this, I am NOT implying that anyone else is guilty of any wrongdoing. Its just that I have read several of PrayingForAMiracle's posts and appreciate her spirit.

Don
Posted 1/29/2013 2:07 AM (GMT 0)
Praying for a Miracle, You are exactly right. This is not a "one size fits all" disease or none of us would be on this forum because we would simply go to the doctor, get a medication, and get better. Abx. work for some, herbals work for some, and sometimes it's a combination of both.

One thing to remember is that both herbals and abx. can have serious side-effects and are best "prescribed" and monitored by a trained physician.
Posted 1/29/2013 2:20 AM (GMT 0)
Kudos to the direction this post is heading! so nice to see.

I agree with the above....let's share info and find out what works best for each person! and support everyone in their choices.

Sometimes we try something, it seems to not work. Then we try it again and it has effect. or not. and someone else has a different experience with the same stuff.

The idea of something "working" as a black and white concept doesn't really fit this disease and it's process.

This is a complex disease and not well understood in the world. Let' keep on learning.

I DO feel, however, that if someone else gets well, then I CAN TOO! :) And plenty of people have gotten well, gotten their lives back, from various protocols. Thank goodness!

This is a great forum.

feeling all warm and fuzzy now :)
N
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