manganese vs magnesium

My son found info about lyme using up (robbing the body of) manganese. I see many comments about magnesium, and I wonder if there is some confusion about the two elements. There is contention about whether to cut out all maganese rich foods to starve the bacteria, or to eat lots of them, plus supplements, to support health. I have opted to eat the manganese rich foods and take a supplement.
Here is a possible way to read the info if you google this line:
Weird Way Lyme Disease Bugs Avoid Immune System | LiveScience I had googled lyme and manganese and found this.
I would have put the link but not sure if that is permitted since I see that HTML is not allowed.
Anyone with any info on this?
many thanks.

Hi, Beth,
Thanks for getting back to me. If you checked that link I posted, the concern seemed to be that most bacteria deplete iron, but lyme depletes manganese. I don't put much trust in Daily recommend values issued by the FDA.

I take lots of supplements, especially since I am at risk for osteoporosis, so I get plenty of magnesium every day, and really notice the difference with my BM's if I miss any. I do occasionally, but rarely, have muscle cramping/contractions, and that was first a problem with my pregnancies. Since we have an RO system, I have figured out that we are not getting any trace minerals, so we have collodial trace minerals we take with each meal. My husband has parkinson's btw, and I suspect it is really a long standing case of undiagnosed lyme. He is 84, so we are just dealing with it, day by day. And I drink extra water when the cramping hits me. (I am 70 and WAS in very good health.)

I found the tick on May 20, 2013. It was fat and not knowing any better, I pulled it off and washed it down the sink. The infection in the bite site led to a 10 day course of erythomycin but the real problem was the buried head and mouthparts, which eventually came out like a little pebble.

My Igenex results were IFA 80; IgM 39 and 41, IND; IgG 30 and 58, +, 41 ++++, 31 and 39 IND. My symptoms that developed before I had the tests were running right down the list. At least I found something that made the craziness make sense. Stiff neck and shoulder that lasted for a week and also returned but not as bad, burning like a terrible UTI, but negative test results, that went on for about a week and returned several times. Burning feet, problems with eyes (cataract took off like crazy plus mucus on eye lashes day and night), ringing in ears, itching, joints hurting here and there and then not, sleep problems, brain fog, difficulty finding correct word, terrible typing mistakes, unsteady on feet, dropping things, memory issues, dizzy, nause at times, low grade fever, never knew from morning to afternoon what to expect, FATIGUE, fatigue, fatigue. I refuse to drive when it hits me and I am the only driver and am the caregiver for my husband. Then the breast cancer scare with the greenish/brown fluid and stabbing pains.

Beyond that, I have been on Samento and Banderol (maybe a slight herx when I started them), Stephania and eleuthtero. And of course all my suppletments, including lots of immune support. Reading lots of books and especially appreciate Stephen Buhler. Antibiotics make me very sick, so I have avoided them except for that first short round with the bite site. Now have hypothyroid for the first time in my life, and am taking iodoral, and need to be rechecked. No Rx's. Eat organic if at all possible and avoid sugar. Off all grains.

Most of the supplements I take I was already on before my tick find. I suspect this has helped me have much less of a problem than some sufferers have. I am very grateful. So almost 9 months later, I am trying to get some real herxs with collodial silver and/or Grapefruit seed extract. I am blessed with an active Lyme Support group here in Wichita, KS, but have not had a lyme literate doctor to guide me. My doc is lyme knowledgable, but not full bore. I do have the advice of a very lyme savy nurse who has two sufferers in her family, and who does has a lyme literate doctor.

I have a friend who has had lyme for at least 30 years and has wise counsel for us.

Thank you for this site. Even more things are making sense now.

Happy New year and here's to recovery!

kind of like when we are pregnant. The baby will take what it needs - calcium from our teeth, whatever, so we sure better have the best diet we can!
Thanks for that thought. I had not run on it before, but it makes perfect sense.
You did mean our bodies can't heal, right?

Post Edited (pelagiaeast) : 1/2/2014 4:41:24 PM (GMT-7)

That's ok. Look what I did. I tried to write OUR teeth and wrote out teeth. That happens to me way too much, and usually I spot them, but not always.
So how did you fix it? Maybe you have special options?

So not killing me to kill the lyme, but that actually might work! ha!

now that is rather cool! I used the pencil, but the only other option is to delete. Maybe after I have been around for a while, there will be more options. This is the only way I know to send a smile.
Thanks for all the info. Now, if you could tell me how to stop this weight gain - part of the newer afflicitions that are coming with the infection. I think it actually started pretty early on, but now that it is time to wear winter clothes (esp. skirts to church) I am really noticing it. It seems to be all belly fat. my fingers, for example, are like they used to be. Another area picking up the lard is the bust area. Sigh.

So back to my original question. Is anyone talking about manganese? It seems to be a really important element in our body.

thanks again!

I know that we have had a short discussion about manganese on here - you could use the search function to find it.

No, you don't get more options the longer you are on the forum, I'm just wrong!! LOL! As I said, I've been a Mod for too long to remember what regular members see. Sorry!!!

I was doing okay with the weight gains, staying busy (usually trying to find things!!!) was enough to keep it at bay .......until menopause hit!! So now I'm stuck with even more weight! UGH! If I find that magic wand that removes unwanted weight, I'll be sure to share it though!!

I'm so sorry to hear that you are dealing with a cold and bronchitis! I used to get bronchitis twice a year without fail. So you have my deepest sympathies.

Awww! Thank you from all of us here for the kind words about the forum!! We do try to keep it more like a community here, rather than just a place for information.

Don't be shy about asking questions - even if you know it's only because of the brain fog!! Most of us have had to deal with it, and some of us lucky ones have had it really bad!! There was a time, back near the end of 2007 & into 2008, I couldn't even figure out how to post, or put together shish-ka-bobs! So, believe me, you are among friends here and if we can figure out what it is you are trying to say, no one will make fun or judge you!!

If you are interested in mild HBOT, we do have a member that says there is a network that can be used to help get better prices with group rates and other options in some areas. I can email her and have her post here to you if you are interested.

Well, with the weight thing, it's hard to tell exactly what the reason is until you get things checked out, as Lyme disease, thyroid issues and adrenal issues can all add unwanted pounds for some. For me, at first I believe it was the Lyme, as I went through periods of weight loss and weight gain. Then the weight came and wouldn't leave after I had finished my Lyme treatment, so we had to adjust the thyroid med, then menopause set in and I'm hopeless now!! LOL!

If you haven't already investigated thyroid testing and adrenal testing, I would encourage you to have a look at this site: www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

Well, we do have a list of rather intense questions that should make any doc nervous if they don't really know what they are talking about - or reveal that they don't know what they are really doing. You can find these questions on page 2 of our "New to Lyme?" thread.

You are good to be very cautious though!! Not all LLMD's are created equal, and for someone with a longstanding chronic infection, the doc had better know their stuff as it will likely involve many body systems. I've talked with quite a few people who went to "LLMD's" that knew less than I do about these diseases....and that's scary! Then there are those that say they are LLMD's but are really following IDSA guidelines.

You can always feel free to shoot me an email too! I try to be extra careful here on the forum with what I say.

It is not recommended to 'starve' our bodies of manganese. The lyme will take what it can get. Our bodies need a certain level of manganese so trying to starve would just allow yourself to be more depleted since the bacteria will get what it needs and you get what is left. It is interesting what they are finding but I suspect that some time in the future and enzyme might be identified to help destroy borrelia. Just speculation on my part.

I joined just now to respond to the original posting asking effectively if there were theories on how to leverage the new information about manganese being used instead of iron. I too was wondering if that implied I should increase my Mn (deficiencies appear in brain function and nerve function and might be cause of some of this pain) OR try to deplete it to kill of the main Lyme bacteria (as the body starves us of iron when we are infected to try to eradicate the bacteria).

I thought I'd share what I found today with you as I think it may be what you were also looking for - how to use the information.

See the article on how manganese is prevented from entering bacteria by a metabolite of Claritin. look up "can Claritin help cure Lyme disease", published Feb 10, 2015.

If this works, it may be balancing the Mn we need with the Claritin dose, not a choice of depriving our bodies or feeding them!.

Would love to hear what you think pelagiaeast based on your post of 1/4 below.

Hi Traveler!

Thanks for the reply. I was not able to discern doses from the items I reviewed. I'm so new and feeling desperate to find something promising. Only infected in May, but not diagnosed until July by non-LLDs so I am on "baby" doses at such a critical time.

So will taking Clarinex help at all? Any other
Promising studies? I am really set back by the lack of anything that looks like a cure on the horizon and angered that I was not given higher doses in early July when diagnosed with rash. Years and years of this knowing it's all still in you is just new and overwhelming to me.

Thank you! Yes it is overwhelming and frankly terrifying.

A clinic where I was first diagnosed put me on the standard 10 days dox. When they got the test results, we increased it to 28 days dox (100 2xday though). Tests implied I was bitten 6-10 before draw. Then I saw an infectious disease dr two week after started dox. Said I wasn't getting better, had signs all the way into fully distributed.

He switched me to 500 cefu 2xday. After reading some protocols, and realizing the doses were low and not targeting all, I added the dox back in, so currently 500 cefu 2x and 100 dox 2x.
(I saw somones protocol had four, including these two at higher doses so went for it).

Added natto. Then two days ago added salt/c - 1g ramp.

I see a LLD tomorrow, and the infectious disease guy.

My symptoms this past week kept me in bed, weak and hurting. Then Wed felt better. Because of the discussions I went ahead and checked the moon cycle. darned if I didn't feel my worst then! Is that really how it works? In 28 days I will be immobile again?

Sorry for long note, but so appreciate talking with someone. It's just been me and my mom fretting.

One question, and I will start reading the new to lyme. I see nothing in the literature about the prognosis if you are diagnosed in that middle ground - after the roughly three weeks where abx effective but not at a year. Absolutely nothing out there. Did missing this by 2-6 weeks coat me years, maybe a lifetime? (It was on my back, and I live alone, just didn't see it till medicine cabinet ajar one day.

LOL!! That's not a long note! Stick around and see how long some of my posts get!! LOL!

Well yay for ajar medicine cabinets! Here is how I see things, it is what it is. You did catch it before it went years - I went decades and still healed though. So no, don't believe that it "doomed" you. The important part is that you caught it pretty early and are going to treat right away.

Each month you should be getting stronger, so you may experience a few more episodes with the full moon hitting you really hard like that, it should be easing up. Keeping a symptom journal can be very helpful with determining if you are really seeing the healing, especially if progress is or even just feels slow!

I would, however, suggest great caution with the Salt/C protocol. Salt doesn't kill the bacteria, and isn't very good for your health at those doses. The larger amounts of vitamin C will help, simply because it's an antioxidant though. I still take large doses of vitamin C and I'm healed. I just feel better when I do.

And you can always add in herbs to help either with treatment (a good idea) or to help with symptoms. The members here usually can help you find something that will work for you, and we have a search function that you can use, just be sure that your first search term is Lyme, so that your results will be mostly from the Lyme forum.

And keep asking questions!!!