Yeah Georgia what do you have?

@ violeta Borrelia does use magnesium and zinc, also vit D. But I don't think starving ourselves to starve the bugs is beneficial.

VIOLETA SAID "Maine, Actually, Borrelia uses zinc and manganese. It doesn't use magnesium. I in no way suggested starving ourselves, I simply suggested getting our minerals from good quality foods and following some good advice about how to make sure we keep our zinc levels up by eating adequate protein."


Viloleta almost anything scientific you read will explain that borrelia does deplete mag levels. It also depletes iron stores and so many other things.






"Bb and Bartonella need magnesium to duplicate and deplete the host’s body rapidly. Copper and iron have all but disappeared from most of our supplements based on faulty interpretation of hair analysis. Your immune system uses those two metals in the process of phagocytosis. They are the main constituent of the enzymes (or “bullets”) your immune cells use in the battle against the invaders."


"
How does Bb cause disease?
Bb has the unique ability to burrow through and hide in between and inside cells especially the cells of the immune system. It can bind to B-lymphocytes, natural killer cells, affecting both humoral and cellular immunity. Because it binds to white blood cells, Bb causes a strong suppression of the immune system. Bb enters the nervous system and reduces acetylcholine production and function. It depletes magnesium levels thereby causing muscle fatigue, spasm and chronic pain. Bb, being a flagellate spirochete, has the ability to constantly change, mutate, and produce new strains. Currently, over 300 strains of Bb have been identified."

Post Edited (Maine76) : 5/27/2014 12:02:34 PM (GMT-6)

I wish I could get my head around all this, I was diagnosed about two months ago and the onslaught of information has completely overwhelmed me add that to the fog and I don't stand a chance. How does anyone make any sense out of the recovery process?

I wasn't saying "you" suggested that we starve ourselves. Lol I didn't realize I had offended you. It's a popular belief with "some" people and there are even protocols for purposely depleting the body of things lyme is believed to thrive on.

I didn't bother to save the source, I'd have to back track my hi sorry online. But honestly it's not hard to find articles regrading lyme
and magnesium depletion. The first was by Klinghart that's all I remember. I'm not trying to argue with you, you are free to believe whatever school of thought you want. My only point is there is literature supporting this theory.

All my doctor has given me is 21 days of doxies, she won't give me any more. I haven't got a clue about which herbs are the right ones or where to get them. I have read up on lyme a lot but most of the information is contradictory and/or complicated. I don't know where to start.

"Magnesium deficiency is very often present and quite severe. Hyperreflexia, muscle twitches, myocardial irritability, poor stamina and recurrent tight muscle spasms are clues to this deficiency. Magnesium is predominantly an intracellular ion, so blood level testing is of little value. Oral preparations are acceptable for maintenance, but those with severe deficiencies need additional, parenteral dosing: 1 gram IV or IM at least once a week until neuromuscular irritability has cleared."

ADVANCED TOPICS INLYME DISEASE DIAGNOSTIC HINTS AND TREATMENT
GUIDELINES FOR LYME AND OTHERTICK BORNE ILLNESSES
Fifteenth Edition Copyright September, 2005
JOSEPH J. BURRASCANO JR., M.D.MANAGING LYME DISEASE, 15th edition, September, 2005
Page 6 of 33 full text at http://www2.lymenet.org/domino/file.nsf/UID/guidelines



I have severe cardiac manifestations so this interesting to me, not that magnesium, calcium and potassium levels aren't something I already knew affected cardiac functions.

Post Edited (Maine76) : 5/27/2014 2:04:59 PM (GMT-6)

@Lymelymie, it doesn't sound like your doctor is lyme literate.  Would you like to find another doctor.  If you start a thread saying where you live and asking for suggestions, maybe you can find another doctor.  It's tough to do it on your own.  I don't mind doing it on my own.  And I can't take antibiotics.

Lipopolysacchride (LPS) is a molecule (a finger like projection) that many pathogens have on their outer surface. It is what often triggers our immune response as our bodies have learned to look for it. So when a LPS goes inside a cell, I would think Borrelia goes with it. It is an intracellular organism. It can live in plasma but it's more prone to phagocytosis in the blood stream. Whatever it does, it hides very well.

Cellular biology has been my main focus in the past few months because I have been getting a grip on what is happening at the cellular level. I'll try to work back from there when attempting to find a cure.

Calcium channels are tricky in that they are regulated by Polyamines. For me, Polyamines are the key to my problems. For Lyme sufferers, I'm not sure what their role is other than regulating Ca, K, and Na levels.

Look at the valance of elements to see what is important (ratios). Mg and Ca, Zn and Cu, Na and K (but Li is important too and it's often overlooked.)
Many on here who have serious problems have skewed ratios or big imbalances in these elements. When things like colodial silver work, they work because of antimicrobial effects elicited by blocking transport of Copper, Gold, or another closely related transition metal. That's why we used to use gold therapy when I was younger. It fits a receptor somewhere that prohibits a pathogen's normal routine. We're hosts for these guys and need to make it difficult for them to survive. That's not easily done if you are really sick. You won't get well if your basic elements are depleted. Eating correctly helps, supplementing helps, detoxing helps. We need to become bad hosts? Depleting elemental stores isn't the answer. This just makes it harder to increase our immune response. There is a fine line between too much elemental support and not enough.

So how do we become bad hosts? Diet can help, raising body temperature, increasing the quality of our digestive juices, and the bactericidal properties of the serum are a few things that help us to be "bad hosts." Having low amounts of elements in the body doesn't help with 2 of those 4.

It all comes back to the cellular level. People ask about muscle twitching all the time and many recommend Mg to help it. Why? When your muscles twitch uncontrollably, you have an elevated level of acetylcholine. That happens mostly from an accumulation of Aluminum. You take Magnesium (same valance as Aluminum) and the Aluminum gets displaced and eliminated and the twitching decreases or stops. The Aluminum wouldn't have been bound if they had adequate Magnesium or Manganese levels. See how I threw that Manganese in there? Manganese can have a +2 valance like Mg. So Manganese can be and is a huge issue for Lyme sufferers. We will probably learn in the future that Cobalt, Rhodium, Chromium, and Nickel play a huge roll as well.