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Do antibiotics really only kill bugs during growth cycles?

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Lyme Disease
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Posted 12/5/2014 3:11 AM (GMT 0)
If that is the case what happens to all the other forms? Does taking a biofilm buster kill the bugs inside or just release them? What about coinfections? Do they only die dwhen they are growing?

If you are only killing bacteria while it is growing what happens to the rest of the forms? You just take antibiotics for years and hope that they are decided to have a grow cycle to kill them?

II finally realized cysts and biofilm are two different things. So busting open a cyst kills all the bacteria or just release them? This is complicated business..
Posted 12/5/2014 3:15 PM (GMT 0)
When a cyst buster takes action, it can either eliminate the Lyme cyst or open it up to the susceptible spirochete form. Tindamax and Flagyl are said to actually kill the cyst form, while Mepron and others may only "uncurl" them.

Tindamax could also actually "kill" the biofilms, in that they can penetrate and kill what's inside.

Reproduction cycle killing is the way that the bacteria are more easily eliminated, but when you use a cyst buster in combination with a tetracycline or

cephalosporin, the spirochetes either ball up into cysts and are killed by the cyst buster, or they remain in spirochete form, and in theory should be weakened over time to the point that they die.
Posted 12/5/2014 3:24 PM (GMT 0)
Macrolides will also kill the spirochete form.
A good combo of abx to pulse is a cyst buster combined with a tretracycline macrolide.
Posted 12/5/2014 3:27 PM (GMT 0)
This is a very complicated infection! That's part of the reason why there are hardly any answers and they all seem to be slightly different for each person.

A biofilm is a community where bacteria hide - the Lyme bacteria can also go into cyst form though.

When a cyst form busts open, I believe it's only releasing the bacteria. It's in cyst form to avoid detection and the abx.

And you aren't "hoping" for the rest of the bacteria to come out of their cyst forms or out of biofilms - even without using cyst busters and things to destroy biofilms, almost all of them will eventually come out to replicate - that's their 'life's goal' - to replicate. They can only do this in the blood stream from what I understand, which is where the abx are 'laying in wait' for them.
Posted 12/5/2014 3:39 PM (GMT 0)
Everyone has shared things as I understand them.

What is especially comforting to me is that long-term antibiotics (without use of a cyst-buster) do have the potential to eliminate Lyme.....for exactly the reasons Trav shared in her last paragraph. I believe I read this fact in "Beating Lyme" co-authored by noted LLMD Dr. F

I've also read that Lyme bacteria can remain dormant in cyst form for as long as 10 months. However, just as Trav mentioned, they do come out to replicate.

The relatively slow growth cycle of Lyme bacteria is why treatment is prolonged. Heck, early dessiminated cases need to be treated an average of 4-6 months....and that's when no co-infections are involved. Obviously, the longer a person had Lyme that went untreated, the longer successful treatment will take. Thankfully, I've read enough success stories to believe everyone here can look forward to healing. It "just" takes time.....a lot of time :(
Posted 12/5/2014 3:48 PM (GMT 0)
But....once the right combination of killing the bacteria and supporting the body is reached, the healing can be spectacular! I had been infected for at least 40 years with Lyme and healed with just 12 months of treatment from that infection.

The things I stress the most are the things we must do besides taking some form of abx to kill the bacteria - the less the body has to deal with on it's own, the faster it will heal. It's like rolling a log up a hill - the more help you get the easier it will be.

We have to detox to rid the body of the toxins that are left behind from the bacteria dying. We need to support any part of the body that is having difficulties. We have to help our immune systems recover.And we have to kill the bacteria that doesn't belong.

At least that's what I've seen and experienced.
Posted 12/5/2014 4:15 PM (GMT 0)
Amen Trav!!

I long ago cleaned up my diet to better my health and that included eating organic foods as often as possible...same deal with the addition of supplements.

Once Lyme hit, I've been following Dr. B's guidelines re supplements and lifestyle choices - those of which include the elimination of sugar/refined carbs....making sure I get proper sleep/minimize stress...and changing my exercise regimen around a bit.
Posted 12/5/2014 5:20 PM (GMT 0)
I see... so eventually they will all be killed. I wonder what the fastest way to do it is? My doc said "he's not in the camp of doctors that believes in making people herx so bad they are bed ridden to get well". Haha I'm already bed ridden for the most part!

Traveler did you take abx for the entire 12 months? I thought abx aren't what got you well?

Why does it have to be so different for everyone?! Because of the different life stages people are in when they get treated? Why when the bugs are growing does it make us feel sick? It seems like if they are busy replicating they wouldn't have time to make us sick?! Is it their waste that messes with us? I can see why them drilling through tissue would cause a lot of issues, but if they are just hanging out what's the big deal? Especially if they turn our immune systems off...?

Do they "poop and pee"?? Haha kind of a funny question. I know the inflammation makes cytokines and when that happens it makes us feel sick. And they steal our energy from mitochondria and that makes us feel tired?

Are they actually eating our eyes and brain? Once they are gone that stuff can heal right? Will I be stuck with terrible vision forever? Do all of the things they mess up regrow or do some things not? Can nerves repair themselves?

Sorry that's a ton of questions... haha I guess that means my brain is kind of working again!
Posted 12/5/2014 6:56 PM (GMT 0)
I used pharma abx for 12 months in 2007 and only got worse -completely bed ridden and seizures.

In 2010, I used the Chronic Tonic for 12 months (Houttuynia for the last 9 months) and was healed for 2 years before I got reinfected.

They affect us according to our weakest points in our bodies, even if we didn't realize that it was a weak point, and go from there. Mine is my intestines, and boy do they get hit hard! But that's not my only weak point, so there's lots for them to dig in deep with - so to speak.

It's the toxins that make us the most sick and what drives our symptoms, so if you can detox enough, then you won't feel as bad. Each time I get lazy and slack off on my detoxing, I will feel worse and have symptoms increase. It may take several days or even up to just over a week, but it always happens.

While they can most certainly cause damage, most if not all, is only temporary and the body can heal from it. Yes, even the nerves can repair themselves!

I did a lot of hand quilting when I was really ill the first time around, and because I had such terrible nerve problems, I couldn't really feel my fingers and would frequently sew them to the back of my work - a little embarrassing, because it never hurt, but could get a little bloody sometimes! LOL! I would also burn myself, and could use really, really hot water!!! Which wasn't the smartest thing, but I couldn't tell when it was "too hot" until it was also too late.

It took a while (maybe 9 months?) but once my nerves reached a certain level of healing, I suddenly got the feeling back!! What a shock I was in for when that needle point really hurt!! LOL! Or my hot water was actually very hot to the touch for me!! LOL! I still find myself "admiring" the way things feel, a super soft blanket, the feel of water running over my fingers, the feel of my dog's fur, and so on. It's amazing since I didn't think I'd get it back. I made sure to continue to take many supplements and herbs that aid in the healing of nerves - and now I'm back on them!!

Ultimately, no one knows what will return or to what level it will return for those that have long standing chronic infections, but it's all worth fighting for! :-)

And congrats on your brain working again!!! smilewinkgrin
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