Buhner Question

He's probably the best herbalist treating Lyme, but he doesn't give many suggestions regarding detox.

If you choose to do the protocol, start VERY slowly, one herb at a time, and only one small dose, until you've acclimated, and you can add the next herb.

And detox, detox, detox.

Read the first thread, and you'll find info. about detoxing.

Margaret

Well I showed him Buhner's core stuff and he seemed uninterested. I also read the new to Lyme thread. I am interested in the Detox bath for myself as I have chronic pain....I know I am in the wrong topic for that but it was brought up here. Would a detox bath be good for that also?

And coffee enema....what? Never heard of anything like that.

Traveler said...
Hi x2jmor,
The problem I see with the Green Dragon LB core protocol is that all the herbs are together in one pill - great idea once the person knows they can tolerate those doses of each of those herbs - but they can cause one heck of a herx for some and then they won't want to try again. I would suggest that he start on each herb individually and build up to those doses before switching to a pill where they are all mixed in together - unless he was very recently infected.

The Epsom salt soaks would be good for anyone with muscle pains - doctors have been prescribing them for sprains and bruises for many, many years!! Do you know what's driving your chronic pain issues?

No he has had Lyme for a few years now but he is always complaining about it. He had the antibiotics but it was diagnosed 9 months after the tick. I don't even know if that is really what is bothering him. Stiff, headaches, and fatigue. It could just be that he is getting older (67) but he swears it is the disease that he says comes and goes. I will see what he thinks of taking each one individually.

Yes I kind of know why I have pain. My pain is from either a car accident or a drunken fall, both happened around the same time 8 years ago. It is in my neck. I have had a couple MRI's and nothing appears to be wrong so they told me it might be some kind of pain syndrome. Plus I have a lower back herniated disc 2 years ago but that is minor pain most of the time but it is still present.

Traveler said...
Ice and a nice Epsom salt soak might be really good for your injuries! Why not give them a try?

No, we don't get headaches just because we get older, and especially if he is saying that it comes and goes. Do you know how long he was treated the first time? It sounds like he may not have been treated properly and is still dealing with the infection - we are seeing a lot of that.

You can tell him that he can switch to just the LB protocol once you know that one of the herbs isn't going to hit the infection so hard that it will make him very miserable - or have him email me. I can talk to him.

I will give the baths a shot.

I do not know how long he was treated but I will ask. Is it possible to redo the treatment? I will see if he wants to email but I kind of doubt it, he isn't the biggest fan of technology. That is why I am the one looking into all this stuff for him. But maybe he will.

He has been on this kick about drinking stinging nettles tea lately. Does that help at all?

Girlie said...
You probably know this, but Green Dragon Botanicals has Japanese Knotweed, Cat's Claw, and Eleuthero in separate bottles...those are the three main herbs in Buhner's updated protocol.

With them being separate, you can start low on one of them, then add the second, and third,....then increase each one separately.....

It is better for determining what is causing any reactions you get.

Good for you - helping your father with this.

I did not know this, thanks.

It's never too late to treat...in fact leaving it untreated would only allow the lyme bacteria to flourish.

I think that is a good plan. If after the first week, your dad is herxing, then, wait another week before adding the Cat's Claw. Don't add in the Cat's claw until the herx subsides. If the herx is unmanageable - at any time, you need to have him back off (lower the dose) until it subsides.

I think maybe the eleuthro - you could start off a bit lower - try 1/4 tsp a.m. and lunch to start.

Remember - after the 3rd week, you are still upping the dose one at a time.

Also, you don't have to get to the maximum that Buhner states: ie. if your dad ends up on 2 pills 3X a day, that is okay. I never went to the max when I was on it.

And the detoxing is important...epsom salt baths, lots of water, is your Dad able to go for walks?

Sorry Trav., I thought x2jmor was talking about the Buhner Protocol. I had not heard of the LB protocol.

x2, you might also try Trav's version of the Misty Meadows protocol, but I still think you should have someone like an herbalist in charge.

Margaret

If your Dad has had lyme for a long time your initial Cat's claw dosage may be too high. I would start at 1 capsule per day for a while and see how that goes. If all is well after a couple of weeks, add in a second (ie am and pm) for another couple of weeks.

When you add in the ginseng, add 1/4 tsp 1x daily for a week or so before you add another 1/4 tsp. Don't take that too close to bedtime or he won't be able to sleep.

You really need to go SLOWLY with the antimicrobials and immune stimulants.

Several years ago when we were starting out I trialled 1 capsule of cats' claw daily. Within 2 days my skin was extremely sensitive and felt like it was burning all the time, especially when I went into the sun. If anything touched my skin it felt as if I was being flicked with a rubber band. My elbows and knees hurt constantly. I finally gave up on Cat's claw and have not used it since.

I'm not saying not to trial it, but people react differently and that herb wasn't for me.

Sounds like the reaction could have been a herxheimer?

Very few people have trouble with Cat's Claw, apart from herxheimer's, and it's going to be hard to treat Lyme without Cat's Claw.

Plus, all of the Lyme herbs are equally potent.

Margaret

I started the Buhner Lyme protocol on Saturday, I order the all in one from Green Dragon, I was concerned with the all in one and not knowing which I may have a reaction to but I thought I have it now and may as well try it. I read the whole book on Saturday as well. I have seen improvements each day, no reactions so far, think I herxed yesterday, I also started taking the Eleuthero root tincture because my energy is so low and if I drink any caffiene it makes everything worse. I am doing the 1 pill 3 times a day, also on Doxy, I up that to 300mg a day so could have caused my terrible feeling yesterday as well.
The Japanese Knotweed is super important in this protocol, the book also lists interactions so it important to get the book.
Take it slow with him, and maybe have him read the book.
I have an old family friend probably the age of your dad, bitten in 95, took initial antibiotics felt better, then came back terrible went to Kansas City to Lyme clinic then another 3 months of antibiotics, said he never felt better, found an herbalist not to far from here, she put him into remission, he uses these drops he got from her when ever he knows a flare is coming on, I'm just saying I doubt he was treated properly and didn't heal.
Use you good child persuasion abilities and he will thank you for it some day!

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