Confused about Lyme

Hello all,

My first question is, does having a bulls-eye rash mean FOR SURE that you have lyme disease? I've seen this question asked here but I haven't read an answer about this.

Are there rashes that look like a bulls-eye that are just a reaction to a spider bite or something and NOT lyme related at all?


So here's why I'm here...

A few days ago I noticed something bit my arm, I get bit often by mosquitoes (they like me for some reason) so I didn't think much of it. But it got pretty red the following day (I don't know if it had a ring at that time, I think it was just all red)

I don't remember it being itchy by the way, in case that is of any significance.

Then last night (2 days after probably when I got bitten) it wasn't as red, but I noticed that bulls-eye pattern. I uploaded a couple of pictures here:


i60.tinypic.com/2rraurl.jpg
i62.tinypic.com/2wdym0w.jpg



From some Google'ing I learned that it might be lyme so today I went to a clinic and they took a blood test, and I'll have the results in a few days.

The bulls eye rash went away, so luckily I took pictures last night. Today I just have the middle part that looks like a bite and there is no rash.


Does the rash in the pictures above look like a typical bulls eye rash related to lyme?



My confusion now is how to handle things if my tests are negative, because I'm reading that the tests are not reliable at all.

I initially called an infectious disease specialist office as I would have preferred to go there to have this looked at first but they don't work that way, you can only make an appointment with them if another doctor refers you because you got tested and got a positive result.


I don't think I have any symptoms, do symptoms usually start right away?


Just looking for some feedback on the pictures of my rash, and also some guidance on how to handle the results either way. From what I read if the results are positive I should make sure to get a specific type of antibiotic at a certain strength. I assume the specialist would know all this but I'd prefer to be armed with some information.

I'll only know my test results in a few days unfortunately.



Thank you in advance.

The other issue is that by the time you see an ID the rash would have resolved on it's own so make sure that they see the pictures. The rash is just part of the progression of the disease and it goes away after a few weeks on it's own.

Given how soon you had the blood tests done, they could come out negative. If they are too soon, the body has not yet produced enough antibodies to show up on the test.

From your comments, it sounds like you just went to an urgent care. I would go see your primary and show them the pictures with any symptoms you might have - flu like symptoms and/or headache. Most people don't get a rash at all and then even fewer get the bulls eye rash.

I would skip the ID and go to your primary, especially if you live in an area with Lyme. If you have a vet, they'll usually know if there have been confirmed cases. If they see them in dogs, you have lyme in the area. But my vet mentioned he follows the reports of human cases. They tend to go hand in hand.

Nope. The rash will go away on it's own even if you are infected. One of the veteran members, would remember but I think the ID would tell you there is no problem. But there could be.

Welcome!

Sorry for the reason you're here but glad you found us. This place is awesome :)

The bulls-eye rash is diagnostic for Lyme - sorry. Lyme is the only infection that can cause that type of rash.

www.cdc.gov/lyme/signs_symptoms/rashes.html

Lyme is no joke and I think you realize this.

Please see an ILADS-trained doctor for proper evaluation of your rash.

Until then, please find a doctor who will prescribe some doxycycline for you until you get into see the LLMD.

And, I suggest you read the "New to Lyme? Start Here" thread at the top. Getting started on a detox protocol can only help.

Please keep us posted.

Oh, I had no symptoms/rash after being bit by a tick. My signature tells the rest of my story.

Thank you very much for the replies.

I made an appointment with my primary for later today. I live in South Florida where lyme disease isn't common.

I don't know if I should ask my Dr to put me on antibiotics just in case. Sounds like a very strong dose is needed. I'm still a few days from the test results and even those won't really be helpful since if this is lyme I may have caught it early and may not yet show antibodies in my blood.

Some experts report that up to 20% of mosquitos carry Lyme.

This is from Dr. Buhner "For new tick bites, Stephen typically recommends taking astragalus – 3,000 mg daily for 30 days, 1,000 mg daily thereafter, indefinitely."

Please be careful with abx, they can destroy your immune system through your gut flora and there are still good bacterias that are destroyed that haven't been identified and/or replicated yet in probiotics from one expert anyways. They can also cause an overgrowth of candida as well.

Please look into herbal treatments
Dan

You can start a new thread to ask for a Lyme literate doctor in your area, saying something like this, "Looking for LLMD in (your city and state)." GPs and ID doctors are likely to tell you there's nothing wrong with you, wasting critical treatment time.

Let us know how it goes.

Thanks, I filled out a form here to get a referral:
http://ilads.org/ilads_media/physician-referral/

My primary doctor is pretty good and should take me seriously, which means if I ask for anti-biotics and a re-test in a few weeks (or whenever I should do that), he should oblige.

Off to see him now.

I'll post for doctors nearby when I get him of things didn't go well.

I'm so sorry that your doctor gave you wrong information about Lyme not being common in Florida. You wouldn't believe the number of people that email me alone for referrals to LLMD's in Florida. Lyme is indeed a REAL problem in Florida as well.

The bull's eye rash is 100% diagnostic for Lyme. This is the only time the bacteria stays 'trapped" in just one area. Once the rash disappears, it's gone into the tissues, to find the blood stream and start replicating. Catching it now could prevent you from having to undergo months to years of treatment. And take it from those of us that have had Lyme for 10 years or more (I did for 40 yrs) - it's one thing you want to avoid at almost all costs.

Symptoms don't always appear immediately, but those doctors that have been properly trained about how to treat these infections by ILADS (International Lyme and Associated Diseases) all say, "treat the bite" : /sites.google.com/site/getitrighttreatthebite/

/sites.google.com/site/drjoneskids/treat-the-bite

Sometimes years will pass before symptoms start after a particularly stressful time in a person's life - but at that point in time, the bacteria has also had years to get deeply embedded into your body - and much, much harder to get it back under control.

If you don't start treatment very quickly, you will loose the chance to rid your body of the Lyme bacteria and will have to treat for chronic Lyme. That will mean taking abx for months, and many end up in treatment for years on those same abx that you are trying to avoid using for likely just the 2 - 3 months if you were to treat now.

Lyme disease itself lowers the immune system. Most anyone that has chronic Lyme has to have therapies designed specifically for raising the immune function if we are to heal. There are a lot of angles that must be addressed when the person has Lyme - and if you stop to think about it - doctors are prescribing these high dose, long term abx in order to get people out of the misery of chronic Lyme - so not taking abx because of the risks associated with them will make it so that you will likely have to be on them for a very long time.

Your doctor is almost certainly using either an inhouse lab, Quest or Labcorp - none of these labs understand how to run the tests so that they are most sensitive. They don't test for more than 2 or 3 of the over 100 strains known to cause human illness, they don't use the right testing medium (the stuff in the petri dish), and they don't allow the Lyme bacteria the time to replicate that it needs. Lyme is one of the most complex bacteria that is know at this time - as it can literally hide from the immune system, and can penetrate any organ or bone - even the brain.

The ELISA misses 70% of those that actually have the infection, The Western Blot misses 50% of those that actually have the infection.

I seriously hope that you will reconsider finding an ILADS trained LLMD and starting treatments, as you posted pictures of a perfect bulls eye rash - which means you have Lyme.

Nat, again, that is not true that it has to be on you for 24 hours. Your doctor is not informed about Lyme.

No, that's not accurate at all - first of all, your doc is discounting that these infections are spread by other insects as well - like mosquitoes - and that seed ticks as they are most commonly known by around here - nymphal ticks - are as small as the period at the end of this sentence. I got into a whole mess of them several days ago () and they are sooo tiny!! It was very easy to remove them without tweezers by just kind of brushing them off. It was very easy to see that they were so small that there was no way I could grab them with tweezers without squishing the contents of their stomachs back into my body - almost ensuring that I would get reinfected.

And I have had symptoms set in in less than 2 hours of a tick being attached. As soon as they start feeding, they inject their stomach contents into you - and the bacteria lives in their saliva.

I'm so very sorry that your doctor has given you such a large amount of misinformation - and it's not necessarily even something he/she is doing intentionally - it's what they were taught. So please do not take this as an attack on your doctor, but as a plea to use a doctor that was properly educated about these infections right now.

Actually - and I hate to say this after what I know you have been through - but 200 mgs a day isn't enough. ILADS research has shown that it needs to be a minimum of 300 mgs and up to 600 mgs a day. The most common dosages used are 400 - 600 mgs a day.

The reason why is that only using 200 mgs a day will only keep the bacteria from replicating - and build resistance to- the abx. It takes more than that to kill these bacteria.

The only exception is if your doc is just starting you out on this dosage and will be ramping it up soon or adding in another abx. If you aren't sure if they are doing one of these two things, call them and ask. No need to go back to a doctor that doesn't have the knowledge to help you heal.

Nat9999, I'm just so happy and thrilled you caught this early and are getting treatment! I didn't want to be too pushy about immediately taking abx when I first posted but it will likely end up saving you a world of hurt.

Also, Traveler is spot on the dosages, she is highly informed when it comes to these things. You may need to talk to your dr about this dosage issue.

I believe in a take no risks approach with lyme. It is a hell of a serious illness if not checkmated early in the game.

Post Edited (sebreg) : 7/25/2015 11:54:15 AM (GMT-6)