2.5 years on straight ABX - Finally changing protocol and adding herbals (Liposomal Artemisinin)

Artemisinin is a popular treatment for Babesia. I would imagine Liposomal Artemisinin is more readily absorbed.

That said, many LLMD's pulse artemisinin 3 days on/4 days off.....mostly because artemisinin can lose effectiveness due to certain enzymes our bodies create in response to taking it.

Buhner says pulsing won't help so I'm not sure who to believe lol

People do report some intense herxes on artemisinin......I know I had a stronger-than-usual herx when I first started it.

Even though I'm following Buhner's Babesia protocol, I opted to try pulsing artemisinin. I must admit that, after the first herx I had on it, I haven't had any.

Then again, I consider myself thisclose to being fully healed.

Have you taken any other abx besides the 3 you mentioned?

And, have you/your LLMD ever considered the possibility of Bartonella? It's not uncommon for people to have asymptomatic Bartonella (and/or Babesia) infections that can impede healing from the other ones.

In fact, one of the LLMD's who spoke at the ILADS conference last month mentioned the need to treat for Babesia, Bartonella and Lyme....no matter what.

Treating for Babesia and Bartonella is what brought improvements for me even though my LLMD continues to insist that I've only been dealing with Lyme...

Please do be careful in regards to how long you plan on taking artemisinin. It can be neurotoxic if taken for too long. (Buhner recommends no longer than 30 days)

scottishlymielady - You're right - it is an expensive disease to treat. All the support supplements we need in addition to either antibiotics or herbals to treat the infection.

Then, you add the fact that many of us aren't working...

Regarding the alcohol in the tinctures. I was told to put the tincture in some warm water and let it stand for 5 minutes - and the alcohol will dissipate.

I just posted this on another thread, but will re-post here since this thread is raising what I have addressed below.

Briefly, I got Lyme in Germany in 2011, but did not recognize it for several months. Became a chronic problem that was confirmed with Elisa and Western Blot. I received a line-of-duty determination so I could get treatment from a military medical treatment facility (MTF). I have been the route with various antibiotics, but decided not to push for IV antibiotics. Lots of controversy about why it works sometimes and not others. I am an MD so I have a good idea about why Lyme has been so difficult to treat.

One of the concerns that I have has been the cost for treatments from some LLMDs. Most of the treatments have not been proven to be clinically effective in limited research studies. In addition to the clinic fees (several thousand dollars) I have heard that some are spending $800 a month on supplements!

Due to my experience as a physician and the conflicting research on treatment I elected to add herbal preparations. This has continued to evolve and has worked well. My personal experience is that Buhner has been correct in noting that Japanese Knotweed is probably one of the more effective herbs. He previously thought Andrographis was the most effective. I think he probably recanted due to the fact that it can have a side-effect (usually temporary) of affecting taste. In my case Andrographis was effective, but found that it temporarily altered my sense of sweet, salty, sour, and bitter taste.

What I have learned in the process is that you need to add one preparation at a time. Combination herbal preparations make it impossible to know which one is effective, or which is causing side-effects. The Deutscher Borreliose Gesellschaft guidance is very helpful. Add one herb or antibiotic at time and wait to see if there are any side-effects. Find what works for you since individuals react differently. Ranking what worked for me by stars with 4 being most effective and 1 being little or not all is as follows:

**** Japanese Knotweed Rhizome (Hu Zhang) : Resveratrol from grape seed extract is not the same and only minimally effective. There are other compounds in the whole plant that make this effective. Crescent Moon (EBay) has a reasonably priced tincture around $30 for 8 ounces, doses need to be close to 1/2 teaspoon, 3 times a day. The dose can vary higher or lower and needs to be adjusted according to what works for you. It took over a year to learn that Buhner was not kidding about the higher doses. A little does not work (this is contrary to homeopathy-based treatments). Another source is Active Herb for concentrated granules, $20 for 100 grams, which should last about a month. The quality is regulated under Chinese manufacturing standards, which is better than trusting the various tinctures that are out there.

**** Andrographis: Effective, but side-effects are more common as mentioned above. It is unknown how many have had the side-effects or how long they lasted. Variable sources on Amazon that are fairly cheap.


**** Artimisinin aerial parts (also known as Sweet Wormwood): This was originally discovered by the WHO to be clinically effective in the treatment of malaria (also a spirochete like Lyme), and has been the basis of newer malaria treatments. It can be inactivated by enzymes in the GI tract so taking 2-3, 500 mg capsules every other day seems to work. Thorne has been a reasonably priced source through Amazon. The potential for neurologic side-effects has to be weighed when considering the dosing protocol. In my case, every other day, usually 3 days a week has been helpful. Determining if you are having neurological side-effects can be difficult since they can mimic the symptoms that occur with neuroborreliosis. It can be very difficult to tease apart and requires removing and then adding back the preparations to see what happens. If side-effects do occur you have to determine if they are worse than the symptoms from the disease. The use of herbal preparations is a lot like chemo-therapy for cancer. You have to find the right combination and then manage the side-effects.


*** Teasel root tincture: Depends on the strain and geographic location of Lyme, but the tincture can work very well for some with doses around 1/2 teaspoon 3 times a day. Dutch medical practitioners have found it to be effective. Crescent Moon is a reasonable source, $30 for 8 oz.


*** Cat's Claw: Lots of debate about composition. Cowden thinks that it needs to be free of tetracyclic oxindole alkaloids (TOA) and only have the pentacyclic chemotype ($30 for 1 oz !!!). Buhner disagrees with the TOA argument and thinks it does not matter. Crescent Moon has a tincture priced similar to their others for 8 oz, same dosing applies. Saventaro has the TOA-free preparation for around $25 for 90 capsules, which lasts for a month. You can use both and see what works best.


*** Stephania: Tincture from Crescent Moon is not tetandra, but seems to work. Same pricing and dosing as other tinctures from Crescent Moon. The tetandra form (Fang Ji) is available from Active Herb - $20 for 100 grams. These are supplied as concentrated granules, which is probably more effective dose-wise. They are also more reasonably priced. Stephania is helpful for neuroborreliose symptoms, which are more prominent in the European variant that I was "blessed" with.

There are a lot of other herbal preparations that fall into the 1 or 2 star category that can help. Bottom line is that Buhner's book is extremely helpful in crafting a strategy that could work. Horowitz is helpful for knowing which antibiotic and herbal combinations are helpful, but this requires a physician who is willing to work with you. For some it will require both herbals and antibiotics. It is very complicated and beyond what I can describe in one email.

Bottom line is that people have varying symptoms and response to treatment due to different strains of Borrelia. The presence of co-infections or other pre-existing medical conditions can complicate matters. At the very least be cautious about a clinic that is charging thousands of dollars for consultation and treatment. I do not want to personally name or bad mouth a LLMD based on hearsay from a blog, but I do have significant reservations about some. If they are selling high priced supplements that is another warning flag. I have been spending between $100-150 per month for my supplements. While this is not insignificant it is far more reasonable than the $250, or $800/month that I have heard people spending on treatments from the LLMD sources.

I look forward to hearing what has worked for others.

Kott

I've used both liposomal and regular artemisinin. I definitely herx from both of them. I got some air hunger so it may have been killing Babesia. It also hit my upper back / neck pretty hard and since my initial use of it I haven't had any neck issues that plagued me for the couple decades I've had Lyme.

I find that the effectiveness of artemisinin starts dropping quite dramatically (based on herx) each successive day you take it. For me the cost of the liposomal version was high enough to make it not worth taking multiple days in a row due to this effect. I would always skip at least a day in between doses.

Taking it with grapefruit does increase the effects as well but I'm unsure how safe this is.

Thanks for all the responses.

Great post Kott, thank you. I do agree about spending a fortune on a center or doctor for treatment. Luckily I have a very affordable LLMD that has worked through Lyme himself. I get hour long appointments and free phone consults whenever I need them. there definetly are some people out there that treat lyme for the profits just like there is anything else.

So far, sounds like I'm at about a 50/50 chance for a good herx. Frankly, I've worked through my entire infection, maybe taking three days and a weekend off just in case may not hurt. If I don't herx, I can finally chip away at that honey do list that keeps getting longer.

Thanks again for all the responses. Once this is done I plan on queuing in more herbals so this has all been very good info.