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Does A-bart actually work for Bartonella?

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Posted 12/20/2015 4:25 PM (GMT 0)
Does A-bart actually work for Bartonella? I've been on A-bart working up to 15 drops for the past few months (Since September). I'm at 13 drops 2x a day now. Of course now the bottle is running out but before I spend another $90+, I wanna know other people's experiences with it.

Yes it has given me some reactions, but a user here, ( think rowingmom?), mentioned that her daughter took it for months and kept getting reactions/herxes, then stopped taking it for a few months. When she started again the reactions came back as if she never used it before. The user said that that probably means it wasn't actually helping get rid of Bartonella, it was probably just causing reactions.

So I'm want to know has anyone had actual success with getting rid of Bartonella using A-Bart?
Posted 12/20/2015 5:11 PM (GMT 0)
I'd like to know as well. I've been trying to work my son up since Sept. as well. We did 2 days, then 3 days and at 4 days (and Thanksgiving, bad diet time) he was a mess. So, took one week off and started again (1 drop 2x a day), 2 days.

This past week I just gave him one drop a day, all seven days. Seemed easier on him. I thought this week I'd try 2 drops, once a day.

I don't know, he's herxing all the time. I'm guessing it's getting deep into the brain tissue and killing stuff like it's supposed to.

I was beside myself last visit that if we go too slow, it'll take 5 years to get to 30 drops a day! I only have one year left till he may go to college... so panicking. Just can't get him well.

He was really well end of Sept., just needed to get rid of the tics... since A Bart he's a mess. Dr. says everyone gets to the 30 drops, just be patient.... I don't know... :(
Posted 12/20/2015 5:49 PM (GMT 0)
I thought we saw the same doctor? Dr. S in Howell, NJ?

If so, then he told me the goal is to get to 15 drops 2x a day. And that some people need 20 drops 2x a day. He never mentioned 30 drops and it wasn't on the instruction paper he gave me.
Posted 12/20/2015 7:29 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, we do, and sorry, my brain is not always operating like other people's. When I said 30, I meant 30 in a day... (15 drops 2 x a day).
Posted 12/20/2015 7:36 PM (GMT 0)
Chapelle on here took A-Bart but I don't know what dose. She was also taking abx at the time along with other stuff. She's been healed since last year and is very busy advocating while caring for her children and running a business. While she's not able to post every day, you can find her posts by searching threads and possibly using "Chapelle, A-Bart" to see what comes up.

LMC Mom - if you decide to try 2 drops, how about 1 drop in the AM and the other in the PM? This is more "body-friendly". Also, please be comforted that herbs *are* doing something even at low doses.

Rowingmom and her daughter healed on 1/4 doses of Buhner's recommended herbs.

And, is your son taking Japanese Knotweed? It can help a lot with inflammation - including that in the brain. There are other herbs that can help with neural issues as well.
Posted 12/20/2015 8:05 PM (GMT 0)
Hi cd

I was doing 1 am, 1 pm on the drops, but got to 3 and 4 days a week and he was a mess. Now last week after building up again a bit, I did one drop, every day, that seemed better. Trying to go to 2 drops, all at once, every day this week. I may split them a.m. and p.m. again, but also, he's not kind to me and every visit to him in the other room, I'm bringing something nasty to take or healthy to eat, so I keep my trips minimal if I can.

I have thought of going to Rowingmom's protocol with Buhner. I just don't want to stray from the dr.'s plan until he says enough. He insists he will get my son well.

He is taking Pinella, Tri Fortify Orange, Alka Seltzer Gold with lemon all for detoxing. Should I add the Knotweed? Just seems like after 1 1/2 years, we should be closer to well....
Posted 12/20/2015 9:31 PM (GMT 0)
I completely understand where you're coming from and can't imagine your burden. (((hugs))) Take care of yourself. We can only do the best we can....and that can vary greatly from minute to minute ;)

I totally regret not taking Japanese Knotweed from the get-go and told my LLMD as much during my last appointment with him. (he didn't want me doing herbs when I was on abx). I plan on taking low doses of the stuff for a really long time after healing. IMHO, there are just too many benefits to the stuff to not take it.

I remember the issues you've had with your son (and I even remember his name :) What I don't remember is what infection(s) he's dealing with (Bart, I would think at least) nor what treatments he's had.

One would hope there would be improvements after 1.5 years. If you're willing to update me, maybe I can help you identify a missing link.

And, if you're up to it, why not create your own thread? I understand if you're too tired from it all to do so. Just offering up help if you'd like it. It can always wait until a better time for you.
Posted 12/20/2015 10:10 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Lovemychildrenmom!

Wasn't your son doing somewhat better at the beginning of the year?
I was hopeful at that time that he was showing improvement.
Posted 12/20/2015 11:48 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks :)

Treatment for lyme 1 1/2 yrs. Bart clinical diag. in Feb. Slow increments. Now on full doxy for over a year, full rifampin since July. A couple lowest dose psych meds. ADP protocol, and detoxes. He was about 85-90% in Sept. I was so happy, even his personality was finally a pleasure. I wanted to get rid of the last of the tics. So, A Bart.... and he's been a mess again since. I'm hoping and praying when we get through A Bart full dose, we hit full remission.

I am doing my best here, thank you for your kindness. But it's over 2 years of Mr. Nasty and it's SO hard to care for a teen let alone one with Lyme/Bart psych issues and anger.... so so tired and sad. All I want to do is drink and sleep and make the world go away.

PS - I have four children - one is studying in PARIS since Aug., not coming home until mid Jan. and the other who grad. and moved out in May just had emerg. surgery last week out of state - didn't know where to go or if he had an ins. card!!!! Ugh. On top of all that, he had lyme too in 2010... undertreated, but symptom free. We all know what happens after surgery.... any hiding out will come out to play! :(

Just a few extra things to worry about. The little one is a freshman with royal attitude (living here in this environment does not help I'm sure).... just so sad...

He's only got a few months left to do his Eagle project. He was ready over 2years ago when this hit. Now he may never have that - I hate ticks.
Posted 12/21/2015 12:40 AM (GMT 0)
We didn't hit full remission with 20 drops A-Bart 3x daily for 6 months (and this was while she was also taking first biaxin/rifampin, and then azithromycin/minocycline/plaquinel/malarone/tindamax). I'm not sure if this was because we never really addressed her underlying asymptomatic negatively testing babesia or if it was because A-Bart just wasn't our answer. We didn't use A-Babs or any of the BW detox remedies either, so that may have been part of the problem.

Frankly, houttuynia and the other bartonella herbs in Buhner's protocol worked better than all the combinations of antibiotics and A-Bart we tried.

Even my own anger issues and "perimenopause" symtoms resolved with the herbal treatment. I now know it wasn't perimenopause but bartonella - hot flashes, bipolar type anger, derealisation, foot pain, headache, suicidal ideation, ongoing flu-like symptoms, brain fog, palpitations etc.

My feeling is that if the BW remedies actually worked, there would be more than one person here expounding on the fact. The remedies have been around for a while and used to be pushed at every ILADS meeting (likely the reason why our LLMD recommended them), but I don't remember ever seeing anyone healing from them. Sorry.
Posted 12/21/2015 12:57 AM (GMT 0)
I took A-BAB and A-BART 30 drops 2x/day for each and it did nothing for me. Note I don't know if I have Bart but I definitely have Babs.
Posted 12/21/2015 1:32 AM (GMT 0)

Rikky1 said...
I took A-BAB and A-BART 30 drops 2x/day for each and it did nothing for me. Note I don't know if I have Bart but I definitely have Babs.

Not even herxing? K herxed like crazy; just no improvement which seems counter-intuitive.
Posted 12/21/2015 1:53 AM (GMT 0)
Hello all, I'm new to posting so hopefully I don't mess this up.

I also just started ABART, along side of Klinghardt anti-parasite protocol (biltricide, ivermectin, combatrin, albenza) I find that it is very hard on my digestive system and that the digestive effects make me quite uncomfortable. I have also noticed and uptick in my brainfog. I stopped taking it for a few days and noticed that things eased up.

my ND said to go very slow on this- do NOT increase the dose until all herding stops so if this means you are on 1 drop 2 times a day for months then that 's what it is. He was very clear though to not increase until the herx was over.

after some research I have started to use Bentonite clay to help detox- I talked to my ND and so i've started Clay and Epson salt baths. Once I can have a bath without Herxing then I will start eating clay but very slowly and in small amounts. So far i feel that the baths help.

You probably already know all this but maybe if you don't its worth a try.
Posted 12/21/2015 2:04 AM (GMT 0)
LMC Mom

SO very sorry you have so much on your plate!!! Bigger (older) kids can translate into bigger problems. Godspeed.....and please take care of yourself.

I'm really glad rowingmom provided her input because it seems so very relevant to your situation. It does seem that Byron White products are tough on most of the people who use them.

One thing really stands out for me is the possibility of an asymptomatic Babesia infection. I've learned that healthy people are carriers. In fact, someone shared a link on here awhile back about blood donations being restricted because of this....and because there isn't adequate testing for Babesia.

There are more Babesia strains than tests available....and new strains are being discovered every few months.

My LLMD has remained adamant that I'd only been dealing with Lyme....my early symptoms were all neurological (and very mild) but I herxed with symptoms that overlapped infections.

It wasn't until I started treating for Babesia and Bartonella using Buhner's protocols that I finally broke the plateau I'd hit on abx in February (and after almost 6 months on the full Cowden protocol).

These bugs form biofilm with each other and communicate via quorum sensing. Babesia or a Babesia-like parasite could very well be "holding onto" the last of your son's Borrelia and Bartonella bacteria.

Treating for the coinfections makes Borrelia more vulnerable to treatment. Logic follows that this applies for all the infections.

Perhaps you might discussing trialing some of Buhner's recommended herbs for Babesia (we can provide details) just to see if there's a response. If there is, Babesia/BabLO could very well be the missing puzzle piece....and treating for it could bring full healing.
Posted 12/21/2015 2:06 AM (GMT 0)

echo23 said...
Hello all, I'm new to posting so hopefully I don't mess this up.

I also just started ABART, along side of Klinghardt anti-parasite protocol (biltricide, ivermectin, combatrin, albenza) I find that it is very hard on my digestive system and that the digestive effects make me quite uncomfortable. I have also noticed and uptick in my brainfog. I stopped taking it for a few days and noticed that things eased up.

my ND said to go very slow on this- do NOT increase the dose until all herding stops so if this means you are on 1 drop 2 times a day for months then that 's what it is. He was very clear though to not increase until the herx was over.

after some research I have started to use Bentonite clay to help detox- I talked to my ND and so i've started Clay and Epson salt baths. Once I can have a bath without Herxing then I will start eating clay but very slowly and in small amounts. So far i feel that the baths help.

You probably already know all this but maybe if you don't its worth a try.

Welcome echo23!!!

Thanks so much for joining us and for your valued input. Sharing of personal experiences helps everyone.

I see that you started your own thread and will head over there now ;)
Posted 12/21/2015 2:11 AM (GMT 0)

rowingmom said...

Rikky1 said...
I took A-BAB and A-BART 30 drops 2x/day for each and it did nothing for me. Note I don't know if I have Bart but I definitely have Babs.

Not even herxing? K herxed like crazy; just no improvement which seems counter-intuitive.

That was me on the full Cowden protocol for the 5 months I followed it.
Posted 12/21/2015 1:01 PM (GMT 0)
EVERYONE, THANK YOU!

Sounds like we need to try Buhner for both bart and babs.

We go in Jan. and I plan to ask. This is what I found, does it sound like what he should try? Lowest doses at first... Not sure if this is instead of abx and other "stuff". It was on the Buhner site for Bart. Not sure it covers Bebesia. I have not delved into all the herbal treatments yet. It is all so overwhelming and expensive.

Sida acuta tincture (from woodlandessence.com or [email protected]) ¼ tsp 3x day for 30 days
Hawthorn tincture, same
Japanese knotweed, (tincture, same dose (from same sources as Sida acuta, above), or capsules from greendragonbotanicals.com 2 capsules 3x daily)
ECGC 400mg +- daily
Houttuynia (Yu Xing Cao – 1st Chinese Herbs, powder – use “LYME” code at checkout for 10% off) 1 tbl daily
L-arginine 5000 mg daily in divided doses
Milk Thistle seed, standardized, 1200 mg daily
All for 30 days.

Post Edited (Lovemychildren Mom) : 12/21/2015 6:21:41 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/21/2015 1:23 PM (GMT 0)
Buhner states that all of the herbs he recommends can be used with all of the herbs used in all of the other herbal protocols....and they can safely be taken along with abx.

The protocol you typed out, LMC Mom, is Buhner's Bart protocol and it's his older one. He updated all of his protocols in his recent books.

You know your son has Bart. You could transition him to Buhner's Bart protocol but, I see merit in trialing some of Buhner's Babesia herbs first. It stands the chance of "unlocking that final door."

If your son herxes with air hunger, chest pressure, sweats and/or other classic Babesia symptoms, it's a safe bet he's dealing with a Babesia/Babesia-like infection.

It would then make sense to titrate the doses of the Babesia herbs.

The main players in Buhner's Babesia protocol are: Cryptolepis, Sida Acuta and Alchornea. I'd start with 1 drop of Cryptolepis...wait 4-7 days to gauge response and then add one drop of Sida...and so on.

Truly, after ALL the time he's been on abx, I see no reason why you couldn't slowly transition to herbals if you are so inclined....including the supportive herbs.

These infections beat the heck out of our bodies. Buhner recommends herbs that work to heal the damage... and other things, such as L-arginine, which can make the body inhospitable to the organisms.

In addition, he recommends immune support herbs. If you think about it, people walk around with asymptomatic infections....because their immune systems are keeping them in check.

We get sick because our immune systems can't beat the particular thing(s) that infect/s us. If we rebuild the immune system, we can heal from current infections and be prevented from getting new ones.

Buhner offers a paradigm shift in thinking about infections, the disease process and what's necessary for healing. Those following his protocols tell stories of healing and I am one of them.

We will help you with this....and you can even make plant medicines for your son which is incredibly cheaper than buying the stuff.

Please just keep these thoughts in the back of your mind until after the holidays....no need to feel any more overwhelmed then you are right now. If anything, I hope we've provided a glimmer of hope.

We will be here after your appointment in January and will help you get started....whenever you are ready.
Posted 12/21/2015 1:25 PM (GMT 0)
My apologies, afiya4health, for us getting a bit sidetracked on your thread. I'm sure you recognize that these things happen sometimes.

If anything, I think you might have gotten your answer about A-Bart.....and possibly some ideas about what herbs actually work.

My very best wishes to you for healing!!
Posted 12/21/2015 4:51 PM (GMT 0)
so glad to see a thread on a-bart. my doc said i should gradually move up to 24 drops twice a day, but i never made it that high. started to have reactions at much lower doses. my brother noticed it says on the bottle take one drop two times per week, or, of course, as directed by your licensed practitioner. i started to wonder if what i was feeling was an adverse reaction to the a-bart, rather than a herx. who knows. i saw the ingredients of a-bart here

http://lymepedia.org/a-bart-byron-white-formula/

and noticed it contains poke root. i wondered if maybe i was just having a reaction to taking so much poke root.
Posted 12/21/2015 4:59 PM (GMT 0)
Nope no herxing at all for me. As I said it did nothing. I almost never herx and most here don't believe me but I just don't. I either feel better when I start something after a few days or I don't. Early on I think I did herx some but my bug load is more manageable now.
Posted 12/21/2015 5:38 PM (GMT 0)
A-Bart and the lack of any response is what drove me to the Cowden protocol. I liked the BW tinctures, but they never really did anything for me. I am much more reactive to the Cowden tinctures. But you have to listen to your body and see what works the best.
I have also added 15 drops 3x daily of the Japanese Knotweed and like that a lot.
Posted 12/21/2015 6:01 PM (GMT 0)
afiya, I did the Byron White protocol for 3 years before I questioned if it was working... That seems sort of strange when I write it but I just had my head down and was trying to do my best with the protocol. I was sick with what I thought were herxes all the time. In 3 years finally I got up to 20 2X/day of A-Bab, A-Bart, and A-L. Every drop was hard won with all the usuals: pain, fatigue, air hunger, seizures. Well it all did SOMETHING but it didn't get rid of my infections. And yeah it's posited by my new doctor that I was having a reaction TO the tinctures rather than die-off. I came off all of them and started the Byron White detox formulas along with some new killers. In general I think many doctors are using the A-Bab, A-L, A-Bart not as Byron White intended... He suggests to begin with the detox formulas and continue them throughout any use of the A-Bab, A-L, A-Bart.
Posted 12/21/2015 7:45 PM (GMT 0)
marigold33 - if you find healing with BW, please keep us informed. Yes, I'm surprised our LLMD didn't recommend the BW detox formulas, we did use other homeopathic detox remedies though - kidney, liver, brain. At the time I didn't think of investigating for myself.
Posted 12/23/2015 3:10 AM (GMT 0)
Thank you everyone that responded. My doctor told me that A-Bart was good for people who have had Lyme (and i guess co-infections) for a long time and have been treating for awhile. I think in the last part he meant that it's good for people who've been treating for a while before starting the Byron White formulas. For example i was on antibiotics for Bart for a few months before starting A-bart.

So maybe if you never used antibiotics for treating then it will be harder for you?

I am taking A-Bart, Japanese Knotweed powder in capsules, Sida Acuta tincture and just started Houttynia tincture. I have DEFINITELY gotten better, but i have to say it might be mostly from Buhner's herbs.

In fact, i specifically remembered when i went up from 3 to 5 capsules of Japanese knotted a day my brain fog and mood problems just lifted! I didn't feel so depressed and angry/hostile. It was great. But idk because my doctor is really pushing this A-Bart stuff so...idk maybe i'll continue it for another few months and see what happens. I just don't want to take something that is just causing reactions for no reason without actually getting rid of the disease.
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