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Posted 12/26/2015 2:35 PM (GMT 0)
Happy day after Christmas everyone :)

Those of you who know my story are aware of the fact that I decided to make most of my own tinctures in an effort to save some major money.

Well, all of the tinctures I've made/am making incorporate 20 oz. of liquid and I seemingly naively thought I would yield 20 oz. of tincture.

I've been following Buhner's recommendation to powder the herbs before making combining them with certain percentages of grain alcohol and water.

It's become my experience that some of these powdered herb tinctures using 20 oz. of liquid are not resulting in 20 oz. of tincture.

For example, I only yielded 12 oz. of red root tincture despite using 4 oz. of red root and, more importantly (to me ;), 20 oz. of liquid.

Kudzu is even "worse". The root becomes a pile of stringy pieces once powdered and I just can't squeeze much out of the macerated herb.

What can I do to improve my yield?

Thanks to all who post!
Posted 12/26/2015 3:09 PM (GMT 0)
Are you straining it through cheesecloth and squeezing the heck out of it?

I ask because I know I would have to use some kind of mechanical press because I don't have the hand strength. Two pieces of wood and a C-clamp would work.

Just guessing.
Posted 12/26/2015 3:51 PM (GMT 0)
I've never used the powdered herbs, only whole herbs - so I'm not sure of any differences in what I'm about to say - but, when using the folk method squeezing the heck out of it still leaves too much in the medium for me. I have to used some kind of a set up (still trying to figure out what would work best for me) to increase the force in which the herbs are squeezed. My old practitioner used a press, modified with filters to keep the herbs from just flowing through as they were squeezed.

I know I'm not describing it very well. Sorry!! I did find a picture of what the press she used looks like before it was modified for her purposes: i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v3/478545337/OFIS_90S_photo_album_hand_press_machine.jpg
But, she wild crafted many, many herbs every year, so she used it a lot.

Anyway, I've also not measured the amount of finished product I got - I just what I got. Using whole herbs, I realize that I'm not going to get all of the alcohol back out. I usually tincture in quart canning jars, so it goes a long way, anyway.
Posted 12/26/2015 3:55 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks, PeteZa and Traveler!!

Per Simela's advice, I've been using bleach-free paper towels for straining.

I *am* squeezing the heck out of it but, as Buhner already commented, dried herbs (which is all I'm using) don't give up much. I'm finding certain herbs just seem to suck the stuff up lol

Buhner mentions the possibility of an herb press. It seems a hand version can cost over $100 and a more advanced one costs in excess of $1K (and looks like the one Traveler linked)

I think powdered herbs absorb more liquid than whole herbs (that's the whole purpose of powdering per Buhner - it allows for more surface area from which more constituents can be drawn).

Stephania powders quite finely and yet the yield is great. Dan Shen is already proving to yield much less.

It's very clear to me now which herbs will be a yield challenge based upon how my Ball jars look each morning before I shake them. Stuff like Stephania is clearly separated into herb and liquid. Stuff like Sida Acuta, Alchornea, Gou Teng, etc. remain "blended-looking".

I thought I made enough tinctures to last 3-6 months (depending on the dose). Instead, I'm getting 6-8 wks. worth.

Still saving money but just not as much as I'd hoped...and I need to order more herbs to make more tinctures now lol
Posted 12/26/2015 4:47 PM (GMT 0)
I would think paper towels could break with squeezing. Health food stores sell bleach free organic cotton cheesecloth and you can squeeze the heck out of it and it will not break. Just use at least triple layers.

I press 4 leaf clovers and tiny flowers and my husband made me a press for those. I know he will love making me an herb press and this is what I have in mind. It is very similar to the photo Traveler posted.



practicalprimitive.com/skillofthemonth/tincturepress.html
Posted 12/26/2015 5:26 PM (GMT 0)
And, again - thank you PeteZa!! :-) I had not found those instructions before this!! My hubby will be thrilled to make this (he knows that otherwise I'll do it! devil).
Posted 12/26/2015 5:42 PM (GMT 0)
I just talked to my husband about making this and I said "I don't like the idea of a wrench in my kitchen, I said can you put wingnuts on it?" He said he would make it very workable for me. I hope its wingnuts, I think the whole world would be better tightened with wingnuts. LOL!! There goes the tool industry
Posted 12/26/2015 6:08 PM (GMT 0)
Ha ha ha! I have a whole arsenal of hand tools in my kitchen! A small hammer, pliers, 2 screwdrivers, tape measures and more. I can't handle not having a few tools in the house. turn
Posted 12/26/2015 6:15 PM (GMT 0)
the joke in our house is my husband's tools all say Snapon and mine all say Taiwan. Mine are in my car.

I am all "girl" in the kitchen. I could not get the knife through the butternut squash so I beat the knife with my can opener. I love butternut squash but who the heck ever cut through that originally and what did they use??
Posted 12/26/2015 6:16 PM (GMT 0)
A massive cleaver 😀
Posted 12/26/2015 6:41 PM (GMT 0)
Each herb has different yields, and some yield more than others.

I use a small compressor hooked up to a flask and funnel to create a vacuum to suck out at much liquid as possible. Kinda like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_ivtc2kgn0

Cheesecloth can let too many particles of herb through. I use 2 sheets of organic paper towels in the funnel, and that works very well. Got a large glass flask and a ceramic Buchner funnel....mainly because I'm a bit anal about any possible plastic residue getting into my tinctures. :D

The first thing I tried as a cheese press....too difficult to use and didn't get the max liquid out. Plus the one I have is a bit flimsy and got a little beaten up in the process.
Posted 12/26/2015 8:06 PM (GMT 0)
sayyadina I found this press you like and it is $180 and that is without shipping from Australia.

Is it worth the investment of that much money in comparison to the folk method? I guess what I am asking is the quality of the tincture of better quality because of those last dregs being extracted?
Posted 12/26/2015 10:27 PM (GMT 0)
The video is just of the general concept. I already had an oil-less piston vacuum pump (Airtech HP-120V), so I just had to get the flask, funnel, etc. I don't remember how much it cost. Also had to get hose, some metal fittings, a switch, etc to make it useable. I found a similar but more powerful unit online for around $540...my guess is this cost $300-400.

Personally, its a lot easier, physically to do it this way. And I get more liquid out. Its just a matter of putting the funnel on the flask, connecting the hose, putting paper towels in the flask, pouring herb & liquid into the funnel, sealing with a plastic bag and rubber band and then flipping the switch to let it suck the liquid out.

If I'm going to spend the time to make the tinctures myself, then I want to get as much liquid out as possible. And I do get a better yield this way then I did manually. When I was using a cheese press, the herb was still a bit wet at the end. With the vacuum pump I can get more liquid out.
Posted 12/27/2015 12:08 AM (GMT 0)
Oh thank you. I will have my husband be on the lookout for a vacuum pump. Thanks!!
Posted 12/27/2015 1:35 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for your input sayyadina and thanks Trav and PeteZa for your additional comments.

I bought bleach-free organic cheesecloth but found it to be a mess lol Yes, the paper towel breaks at some point and I realized what could be optimal is a paper-towel-lined cheesecloth :)

After I told hubby about the great info shared on here and showed him some tincture presses, he assured me that he would figure something out to help increase my yield. He was talking about using his bench press lol
Posted 12/27/2015 1:57 PM (GMT 0)

PeteZa said...
sayyadina I found this press you like and it is $180 and that is without shipping from Australia.

Is it worth the investment of that much money in comparison to the folk method? I guess what I am asking is the quality of the tincture of better quality because of those last dregs being extracted?

From what I've read, the most potent tincture is in the liquid trapped in the herbs. That's not to say the rest of the tincture isn't potent.

For whatever it's worth, I don't think the difference between the folk method and what I call the ratio method (certain amounts of herb/liquid/percentage of alcohol) has to do with whether or not the last dregs are extracted. You could extract the last dregs from either method of preparation.
Posted 12/27/2015 2:02 PM (GMT 0)
Surprisingly, the 2 sheets of organic paper towels works pretty well. At least in terms of keeping particles out. Getting it back out again is a different story. I use 2 sheets to make sure I cover the whole surface of the funnel I use.
Posted 12/27/2015 4:52 PM (GMT 0)
Oh cd, I could envision my husband using the vice on his work bench. LOL!
Posted 12/29/2015 1:59 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Mister Mike!

I think it's clear it didn't even occur to me that different herbs would absorb the liquid differently. I'm kicking myself on that one - especially since I'd bought only enough tinctures to hold me over until those I was making were ready for decanting. Math goes just so far lol

I've actually tapped into some of my macerating tinctures a bit "early" (2 wks. in which is actually Buhner's recommended maceration time and I find that odd since his recommended sources macerate MUCH longer).

Still, now that I've learned yet another lesson the hard way, I've been scrambling to buy more herbs (and, yes, I bought some more tinctures - blech lol)

No break from the lousy Lyme and Co's learning curve that is 89 degrees lol
Posted 12/29/2015 3:26 PM (GMT 0)
Note to self - Even when I make the tinctures remember to have some store bought as a back up!

Thanks for the lesson.

I hope I remember it.
Posted 1/9/2016 9:22 PM (GMT 0)
I am coming to an end with antibiotics, I can't take them any more without getting some sort of digestive upset. I am looking at all of the different herbal protocols and have decided I want to make tinctures because e of how easy they are to use and to save money for me and my wife.
I need some pointers are there good websites to read "tinctures 101" and who are good suppliers of bulk herbs?
As for the extraction problems I guess I am pretty lucky because I already have 2 vacuum pumps for hobby purposes. One is a professional high vacuum rotary pump and the other is an faucet aspirator like what you us in chemistry class. The aspirator was cheap on amazon and pulls a strong enough vacuum to boil room temp water. http://www.amazon.com/Nalgene-6140-0010-Aspirator-Polypropylene-Threading/dp/B003OBYNBO#customerReviews
However I think a press would be easier to use, I think I may be able to use something like this.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-ton-arbor-press.html
Posted 1/9/2016 10:02 PM (GMT 0)
gregkdc

In his "Herbal Antibiotics" book (available in digital version on Amazon for a little over $2), Buhner gives explicit instructions for making tinctures "by the book".

That translates into a certain ratio of herbs in dry ounces to liquid in liquid ounces. There's also a slightly varying alcohol percentage.

My brain would fog over when I first looked at this and tried to figure everything out. I missed the threads on here about the folk method which many use:

mountainroseblog.com/guide-tinctures-extracts/

(Mountain Rose Herbs is one of Buhner's recommended sources. They don't have the largest selection of the herbs he recommends but the ones I bought were packaged wonderfully and the herbs seemed to be of high quality. Their prices were MUCH lower than other herb companies but, again, not the most extensive inventory of what I need.

Since I'd been taking the Cowden tinctures for almost 6 months....and the Buhner tinctures for almost 3 months before I decided to set up apothecary shop, I decided to do things "by the book" in efforts at maintaining the same potency of what I'd been taking.

Buhner lists his recommended bulk herb/tincture sources on his Facebook page. I don't "do Facebook" but copied and pasted the info when it was shared on here and saved it in an email to myself. I have over 300 emails related to Lyme....I can't find it now but if I do, I'll be sure to come back and share :)

Good luck!
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