Buhner's Question

I've been on Buhner's full Lyme and Bart protocol for almost 3 months and haven't noticed any improvements yet. I know everyone is different but I'm wondering if I should be feeling at least something by now. My LLMD wants me to start back on antibiotics which I discontinued in October because of severe Candida. I dread starting them again but I'm afraid the herbs are doing anything.

How much are you taking - are you reaching close to full dose?
Not that you need to do full dose...but it may be slower if you are only on a few drops of each herb.

Thanks everyone for your quick replies. I'm using Buhner's new book released in December for my Lyme protocol and his book on Bartonella for the Bart protocol. All of my tinctures are from Woodland Essence and the herbs that need to be taken in capsule or tablet form were ordered from his recommended sources in the back of his books. I started with 2-3 herbs at a time to check for reactions them added 2-3 every few days. I know it wasn't wise to start at full doses but I had done fairly high doses of A-Bart along with my antibiotics with no problem. I still have room for increases on a few of the herbs which he recommends to take between 1/2 and 1 tsp. I'm still on 1/2...but there aren't many of those that can be increased to 1 tsp.
My protocol:
Greater Celandine. 1/4 tsp
Cat's Claw (rhynchophylla) 1/2 tsp
Isatis Root 1/4 tsp
Eleuthero 1/2 tsp
Kudzu 1/4 tsp
Houttuynia 1/4 tsp
Rhodiola 1/4 tsp
Baikal Skullcap 1/2 tsp
Sida 40 drops
Motherwort 1/2 tsp
Ginko 1/4 tsp
Senga 30 drops
Japanese Knotweed 1/2 tsp
Licorice Root 1/4 tsp
Alchornea 1/4 tsp
Hawthorne 1/4 tsp
Cordycepts 1/2 tsp
Cats Claw (tormentosa) 1/2 tsp
Red Root 1/2 tsp
Ashwagandha 1/4 tsp

Caps/Tabs:
NAC
L-Arginine
Andrographis
EGCG
Quercetin

I do all of these 3 times a day. Very time consuming as you can imagine! The only thing that has changed is I am now IFA positive on Galaxy's Bart test. I have tested with Galaxy 4 times and have always been negative so I'm not sure if this means my immune system is finally recognizing the infection of if the infection is getting worse. My LLMD said he really doesn't know exactly what the positive IFA at this point means either! Ugh!!!! Thank you all for your time..

Ditto with thanks regarding your list and I share the same question that PeteZa had.

I take as much as you do....and more, actually. To save time, I prepare my 3PM and 9PM doses at the same time I prepare my 9AM doses....and I save those later doses in an amber tincture bottle in a dark place.

And, I hope you haven't been taking Chinese Senega all this time. Buhner recommends it for no longer than 30 days.

I would imagine you tested positive because your immune system is no longer suppressed by your infections. I take it as a good sign.

Again, please share your symptoms.....and also let us know if you maintain a symptoms journal - sometimes improvements are so subtle that we don't notice them until looking back.

I almost forgot - what are you doing to treat your Candida? Symptoms of that overlap with the infections and that obviously makes things more difficult to sort out.

tennisgal - what are your current symptoms? could it be possible that the issues you are having are still from candida and not lyme, hence would explain why the protocol isnt working?

also, when you stopped the antibiotics bc of candida, how aggressively did you treat the candida?

Post Edited (Chapelle) : 3/1/2016 8:05:25 PM (GMT-7)

Tennisgal we were all where you are at one time or another.

That journal will, in my opinion, is so important. You sometimes don't notice the little improvements and I was, at times, neglectful of writing them down because they were tiny. Better to overwrite than underwrite.

Tennisgal, I'm not super familiar with Buhner, but is it possible you have babesia? The tinnitus & muscle aches is a red flag to me. That could be why you aren't experiencing improvement.

Thanks for the list PeteZa. I am taking everything on your list. I forgot to mention the Great Lakes Gelatin in my earlier post but I am taking it with my tea every morning. I have tested for Babs through the Igenex FISH test on two separate occasions in addition to testing through Labcorp and Quest (which are probably useless) and have come up negative each time. I have confidence in Igenex FISH because it picked up my Bartonella when even Gallaxy labs could not. My LLMD also looks at blood smears every couple of months and hasn't seen anything he thinks might be Babs. That being said....never say never.
I guess I was just hoping for more of an improvement by now with the herbs and I'm conflicted because I'd like to have the confidence that they are at least keeping the infections from progressing. I really dread the thought of antibiotics again....

As far as the testing for Babesia, according to Dr. Sch. of Florida, he says that there has to be an extraordinary number of Babesia parasites in the blood for a positive test, and it only takes a very small number to cause a wicked illness. From what I've seen, that's pretty true.

everyone else seems to have far more advice than me - just one thing to note - how long have you had the tremors? bc tremors can be a side effect of diflucan - i experienced it myself. just bear this in mind. are you taking any vitamin B's? what about fish oil (pure form)?

just also to note - hair loss and nail issues can be attributed to candida. what is your diflucan dose? nystatin only helps GI candida and diflucan treats systemic, but taking diflucan once a week may not be enough initially - my Dr had me on diflucan daily for 2 weeks as a boost - i would look into that option.

Tennisgal,

I honestly think that the improvement in your fatigue is huge.

You might want to consider trialing Cryptolepis (one of the main herbs in Buhner's Babs protocol)....and start it slowly. It could be very telling.

The reason why I suggest this is due to the fact that healthy people are walking around with asymptomatic Babesia infections. Even the CDC acknowledges this on their website:

www.cdc.gov/parasites/babesiosis/

"Although many people who are infected with Babesia do not have symptoms, for those who do effective treatment is available."

If healthy people can have no symptoms of Babesia and still be infected, it's entirely possible that those of us dealing with any of these infections could also be infected with Babesia....and not necessarily have any symptoms...or have mild symptoms...or just one symptom (mild or not)