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New to (and overwhelmed by) the world of probiotics...

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Posted 4/9/2016 7:22 PM (GMT 0)
Hi all,

I have been scouring the Internet trying to research the best probiotics while undergoing long term antibiotic use (doxy). I have no doubt there are past posts here that discuss this, but the ones I've found so far seem to do with specific issues, rather than in general - or seem to be very old posts.

Some things I've found more commonly posted online are...
vsl#3, florastor, kefir.... I just feel overwhelmed (as mentioned) and what to be sure I'm not overlapping anything while also covering all my bases. Any help would be so wonderful!!! Thank you!

(The more specific the better😬)
Posted 4/9/2016 7:55 PM (GMT 0)
While finding a good probiotic supplement is a very important part of one's healing journey, especially when that person has incorporated antibiotics into their treatment plan, I wouldn't allow it too much stress. There's just so much that can potentially work someone into a frenzy that you're going to go crazy if you get caught up on everything.

That said, again, it is important, so I can understand you feeling that way.

As you've found, there are quite a few options, some of which you've listed.

I cannot speak on the efficiency of those in particular, as I have never used them myself, but I know a lot around here have, and the response has generally been positive. I suggest using a combination of multi-strain products, alternating them, along with kefir daily.

Homemade kefir is best. You can buy grains various places online. When I was using it, I purchased some from a seller on Amazon, and they turned out to be quite lively.

Also, consider making some sauerkraut, eating a tablespoon or so with meals, I believe is how it's recommended to be taken.

Getting back to WHICH you should choose, again, something broad, offering a variety of strains. Start with a couple, gauge your response, and then try another.

It's not like you're gonna have to pick one and stick with it for life.

Florastor, Garden of Life's probiotics (I used the 100 billion CFU one, Ultimate Defense, I think it is called), Prescript-Assist (using this now, seems to be doing a good job of keeping my GI affairs in balance), VSL.. and then the homemade stuff.

Again, alternate, if you can manage (time and money), 'cause variety is best.

2 hours before or after your "killing" meds. about the same with binders, though I would recommend upwards of 4 hours.

Oh, and consider using S. Boulardii with them, as it is reported to edge out some of the strains that are considered "bad," when there is an overgrowth.

Hope this helps. Sorry, if not.
Posted 4/9/2016 8:00 PM (GMT 0)
Hi there -

Three things to keep in mind about probiotics (and maybe other people will add a few more rules of thumb):

1. ALWAYS look for refrigerated products - with a few exceptions probiotics need to be live when you take them;
2. unfortunately, you get what you pay for and the higher the quality, the more costly.
3. you need to make sure you're taking a product that has a wide variety of strains (most of the top products have at least 30 strains)

Another thing I've noticed is people who are on abx are generally taking too small a volume of probiotics. With an abx protocol you'll need at least 100 billion/day--some people take more than that (I take 400 billion/day). I asked my gastroenterologist MD (who is also an integrative specialist and a lyme specialist) if it's possible to take too much probiotic and he laughed--and told me how one of his patients is taking 900 billion a day.

I've used Garden of Life probiotics successfully--typically sold only at heath food type stores and GoL has various doses and a specific dose for men vs. women vs. children. It's Raw, Vegetarian, Gluten Free, Dairy Free, No Binders or Fillers. This product has the lactase enzyme to catalyzes the hydrolysis of lactose to glucose and galactose.
www.amazon.com/Garden-Life-RAW-Probiotics-Capsules/dp/B004H9J53S

They also sell "emergency" dose, which is what I buy (instead of capsules it's just a jar of the powder and lasts one week--$35/jar but it comes w/ a $3 coupon on the pkg). EXPENSIVE but necessary for me (I found through DNA testing that I was born with lower good gut bacteria than most people, I've struggled my whole life with what I only recently learned was yeast/fungal issues and I can see the same problems in my parents/grandparents now that I know what I'm looking for so I'm extra paranoid about replenishing). You'll find other people are not as sensitive to y/f overgrowth and get by with much less. I know one person here doesn't do much at all and seems to tolerate abx well but I think that is lucky and rare!

I know that we've had positive posts about vsl#3 and florastor and many people have incorporated kefir into their protocols successfully but maybe others can share specifics on them.

Also - when I edited this to add the link I saw that a poster previous to my post and it reminded me of how I used to make kefir w/ coconut milk... yummy... lots of recipes online to make your own stuff. The BEST probiotics come from foods you eat so diet is important but some people spend a lot of time creating great kefir foods and drinks so that is another option (unless you don't have energy/time).

Hope this helps -

p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 4/9/2016 2:06:32 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/9/2016 10:57 PM (GMT 0)
I love fermented foods but I also take a probiotic. I don't think you can get too much.

Right now my favorite is Ginger and Turmeric Carrots. I cannot find this online and I imagine it is because it is in the refrigerated section of my health food store. I find it the same place as my fermented beets and apple slices. It is so yummy.

Fermenting is pretty darn easy if I am reading it right on the internet. I am blessed to have a store that really features fermented foods.

And my kombucha!!! I cannot go a day without my GT Millennium Kombucha Multi Green. If you are in need of energy, boy will this pick you up. Get a 2:30 blah time? Grab a Kombucha!!

synergydrinks.com/index.php/products#enlightened-kombucha/enlightened-kombucha-organic-raw-kombucha-multi-green
Posted 4/9/2016 11:39 PM (GMT 0)
I couldn't agree more. I doubt you can take too much probiotics. Anything that doesn't stick to your gut you'll just pass through, worst case.

I think from least effective to best would be:

Store Yogurt
Homemade Yogurt
Store Keifer
Probiotic Pills
Homemade Keifer (the best)

You can't really go wrong with probiotics, but stay away from stuff with sugar added to it.

Generally homemade is better because it's fresh (more active bacteria for the most part). Something with 30+ strains is the best, something with 7 or more is okay.
Posted 4/10/2016 12:19 AM (GMT 0)
Wow, I am SO grateful for the responses and am feeling much more confident in my direction - thank you!!
Posted 4/10/2016 12:44 AM (GMT 0)
I trust both my LLMD's and one recommended VSL #3 and the other one PB8. Either one is going to get the job done. I've been using VSL #3 for close to a year and been on abx that long and my gut is fine.
Posted 4/10/2016 12:55 AM (GMT 0)
I have a hard time with lactobaccilius. It just makes me sick to my stomach. Not sure why. My LLMD thought it might be a gut in-balance. I have had a lot better luck with prescript-assist soil based probiotics but they are a bit pricey.
Posted 4/10/2016 3:00 AM (GMT 0)
Dittos on the fermented foods and homemade kefir. I'll be happy to share some grains with you if you decide to go that route. Mine are super lively and grow like crazy.

Also, one more thought on probiotics is implantability. Search one out that can implant in your gut. Lots of them have trouble doing that and are a waste of money. I had read this and my LLMD verified it.
Posted 4/10/2016 12:59 PM (GMT 0)
Worth reading http://www.mommypotamus.com/popular-probiotic-strain-may-induce-neurotoxicity/

"The two most common types of probiotics come from lactic-acid producing bacteria (LAB’s) and bifidobacteria. Of the LAB’s there are two categories:

those that primarily produce L-lactic acid/L-lactate
those that primarily produce D-lactic acid/D-lactate.

L-Lactate, which is usually predominant in the body, is easily metabolized. For most people D-Lactate is not a problem, either, but in large amounts it may be difficult for those with impaired digestion to break down. This is especially true for those who have difficulty digesting carbohydrates.

Certain probiotics – especially L. acidophilus – are sometimes taken in huge quantities because they’re considered “safe in any amount.” However, L. acidophilus mainly produces D-lactic acid, and for those who cannot easily break this could create unintended consequences.

D-lactic acidosis (or a sub-clinical form of the same) occurs when the body is unable to rid itself of D-lactic acid. Diet – especially a diet rich in carbs if an individual cannot digest them well – is considered by some to be the main factor behind acidosis. As we’ll discuss later on, though, there are studies which indicate probiotic use can also induce this condition.

Here’s what happens at a cellular level: D-lactate buildup causes cellular metabolism of glucose to switch from an aerobic (oxygen-rich) process to an anaerobic (oxygen-deprived) process. In this oxygen-starved environment cells are unable to produce adequate amounts of adenosine triphosphate (ATP), which is needed for the “synthesis, degradation and ‘firing’ of neurotransmitter molecules.” (source)

Low ATP can affect cognitive function, create feelings of fatigue and impair coordination among other things. More generally, symptoms of D-Lactic acidosis include fatigue, confusion, impaired central nervous system function, impaired coordination, depression, nausea, vomiting, anxiety, anemia, headaches and in extreme cases encephalopathy."
Posted 4/10/2016 3:15 PM (GMT 0)
Another home made kefir user here. I recently has signs of candida, so I increased my intake of kefir (from 1 cup to 1 & 1/2 cup, divided doses) and it all cleared up very quickly!!

It's possible for some people to not be able to take a bunch of probiotics, as they will develop SIBO - Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth, so I wouldn't suggest just loading up on them, not to mention that if you should have any candida or fungal issues, it could cause a die off/herx.

Choose carefully and wisely, and add in more as you go along slowly until you find your gut is no longer needing more support. It's a bit of trial and error, but it's the best way to find what YOUR body needs.
Posted 4/10/2016 4:16 PM (GMT 0)
I read somewhere that when you have the bad bacteria overgrowing in your gut, it takes up all of your Vitamin B....so maybe check with your doc to make sure your B levels are ok or if you should be taking a B complex. I try to support the good bacteria as much as I can.

I take a B complex twice daily and a B complex injection weekly and also switch my probiotics around every few months. Purchase the best you can afford and make sure they have been properly refrigerated. I don't know if you have a Sprouts near you, but in the summer here in Phoenix, I feel comfortable purchasing my probiotics from them and they have been properly handled. I also get all my vitamins and supplements and go to the little counter they have at the Sprouts in the vitamin section and ask the lady if she has any coupons from the magic drawer for anything I have. One time I saved about $30 from magic drawer coupons! Worth the time to ask, for sure. I believe all the Sprouts have that little magic drawer, at least both of the Sprouts here that I shop at do......if they have a really good coupon, I will ask them for a couple of extras for future purchases in case they don't have them anymore when I need them. I have to save a few bucks wherever I can!

I wish you the best in your search!

Jenny
Posted 4/10/2016 5:03 PM (GMT 0)
Wow, you are all amazing. Thank you for taking the time to share!
Tillybear I am planning on going that route, but certainly don't want to take any away from you - do you have any suggestions on the brand to buy?
Not-there-yet, excellent article, thank you for sharing.
You are all so insightful, it is so appreciated!
Posted 4/10/2016 5:07 PM (GMT 0)
Interesting post Not-there-yet - definitely going to look into that more.

-p
Posted 4/10/2016 7:20 PM (GMT 0)
There are a few places to buy kefir grains, they aren't expensive. I bought mine from Cultures for Health (www.culturesforhealth.com/milk-kefir-grains.html) and they have been of very high quality and have performed very well throughout the years that I've been using them.

That site also has some really good videos and articles on preparing and trouble shooting issues - plus you have all of us kefir users that make our own to help with suggestions! :-)
Posted 4/11/2016 1:19 AM (GMT 0)
Perfect, I'm headed to the site now to purchase some. Thanks for the suggestions and support!!
Posted 4/11/2016 12:54 PM (GMT 0)
I agree with not taking too much too quickly, especially if you have allergies or other gut issues. I can't do too much or else I break out into hives. My doctor told me to do just a pinch of the Garden of Life from the jar each day and work up to a larger dose. It seems to be working.
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