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Posted 4/15/2016 6:14 PM (GMT 0)
What is the likelihood that a person has Babesia and not borellia? A former client is nursing a baby and is reluctant to take any meds while nursing. She has recently experienced fatigue and wrist pain/weakness. She is positive for Babesia via realtime PCR at Quest and had one band (41) on western blot. Her naturopath wants to treat with Artemisin, plans to treat with anti microbial herbs if no improvement. I think she should see LLMD. I believe she needs more than Artemisin.
Posted 4/15/2016 6:51 PM (GMT 0)
Since the usual method of transmission is via Ticks....I doubt if she only has Babesia.
The same as someone only getting Borellia alone - it rarely travels alone.

I don't see a problem with treating with Artemisinin first since she knows for sure she has it..but it wouldn't hurt if she added Japanese knotweed and Cat's Claw to it. (As long as those two are safe to take when nursing)

Is she aware of the resistance to Artemisinin? The intestines create an enzyme that develops a resistance.
So, she should not take it for months on end.
Dr. MR (Seattle) - says 3 days on and 11 days off.

Dr. J. - does M/W/F

Some people take it for 10 days straight.
Posted 4/16/2016 2:04 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks, Girlie! That's what I thought. This information about Artemisinin is very helpful! I'm going to read more this evening.

I know very little about the co's...been working at getting up to speed on Lyme. This is certainly a process!!!
Posted 4/16/2016 12:20 PM (GMT 0)
To expand on what Girlie said....not only do the intestines develop a resistance to Artemisinin but, there's been identified Babesia resistance to it.

Artemisinin should never be taken alone.

I sure hope the naturopath plans on starting with antimicrobial herbs and adding the Artemsinin.
Posted 4/16/2016 1:04 PM (GMT 0)
This is the plan:

Babesiosis:
- Allergy Research Group Artemisinin 100 mg: 2 capsules three times daily with meals.
- Zhang Allicin Capsules: 2 capsules, three times daily, or as tolerated.

Fatigue:
- Vital Nutrients Multi-Nutrients with Iron and Iodine: 1 or 2 capsules three times daily with meals.
- Traditional Medicinals Licorice Tea: one or two cups daily.

Dietary calcium:
- Vigorous three day reintroduction of dairy in the diet to assess if symptoms or health concerns are aggravated by dairy consumption.
- Pure Encapsulations Cal Mag w/ Cofactors: one scoop daily

Future Plan:
- Followup assessment after 14-21 days of continuous treatment.
- Reassess babesia antibody and PCR testing after treatment.
- Reassess ANA after treatment.
- Consider referral if symptoms continue and repeat testing is positive.
- Consider trial of antimicrobial herbs or NSAID for intermittent fatigue and joint pains.
- Reassess thyroid status after Babesiosis treatment.
Posted 4/16/2016 1:46 PM (GMT 0)
You know, Kathie.....I got to wondering about her thyroid (surprise, surprise ;).
Do you happen to have her thyroid labs to share?

I sure hope she was instructed to start with one cap Artemisinin.....and slowly increase after a few days. Artemisinin can pack quite the punch - even more so as part of first-line treatment.

And, what about detoxing?

If she does indeed have an active Babesia infection, please know that herxes can be more intense than Lyme herxes since Babesia are larger than Borrelia. Larger bug = larger dead bug parts = bigger herx
Posted 4/16/2016 2:03 PM (GMT 0)
I haven't talked with her...she emailed me. I asked her to call today.

I do have those:

TSH= 0.19 RR .4-4.5
Free T4 1.2 RR .8-1.8
Free T3 3.0 RR 2.3-4.2

And she has positive ANA.
Posted 4/16/2016 2:11 PM (GMT 0)
Her thyroid function is on the low side and I suspect her doctors have been confused by her low TSH (which can be skewed by the infection process).

Based upon her lab's ranges, a healthy person would have Free T4 1.6 or higher and Free T3 3.8 or higher.

She would benefit from some thyroid hormone replacement....
Posted 4/16/2016 3:27 PM (GMT 0)
As always, thanks, cd!

By the way, I'm taking dessicated thyroid that Sally shared with me. It's helping. I have more energy. I'm going to get an rx from my midwife when I decide what to take.

I realized one day last week that I had several consecutive days in which I did not lie down at all during the day. This is remarkable! I've spent much of the past year in bed. Also, I climbed out of a pool when I was in Florida, and had the strength to pull myself up (without difficulty) This was almost impossible last summer.

I'm feeling very grateful.
Posted 4/16/2016 8:21 PM (GMT 0)

cd3764 said...
To expand on what Girlie said....not only do the intestines develop a resistance to Artemisinin but, there's been identified Babesia resistance to it.


I should correct my statement about Artemisinin: According to Dr. MR - The intestines develop an enzyme that destroys the Artemisinin if it is used for too long.
Posted 4/17/2016 2:37 AM (GMT 0)
As for the original question about having only babesia.... My Lyme was dormant (and unknown to me and repeatedly negative via Igenex) for many years after taking years of antibiotics for sinus infections. The babesia wasn't affected (or at least not much) by the antibiotics, so for a few years I only had those babesia symptoms. The Lyme and bartonella only came out of hiding after about a year of LDN (low dose naltrexone). So I would say that all my good doctors agree that it is important to only treat what the immune system can recognize, otherwise you risk additional autoimmune or allergic or toxic die off reactions.
Posted 4/17/2016 2:49 AM (GMT 0)
Yet, asymptomatic infections s still continue to do damage. To assume everything is okay if there are no symptoms really is a faulty way of thinking. Over the course of the 40 yrs I was infected and undiagnosed, I was nearly normal off and on, although I always crashed sooner or later. The longer I went untreated though, the shorter the good periods were as m body got weaker and weaker.

Unfortunately there are many that have had the same experience..

Toxic die offs are prevented by successful detoxing though.
Posted 4/17/2016 2:08 PM (GMT 0)

Kathie said...
As always, thanks, cd!

By the way, I'm taking dessicated thyroid that Sally shared with me. It's helping. I have more energy. I'm going to get an rx from my midwife when I decide what to take.

I realized one day last week that I had several consecutive days in which I did not lie down at all during the day. This is remarkable! I've spent much of the past year in bed. Also, I climbed out of a pool when I was in Florida, and had the strength to pull myself up (without difficulty) This was almost impossible last summer.

I'm feeling very grateful.

Happy to help.

And, I'm beyond thrilled to hear this great news, Kathie!! May it long continue!!! (keep on top of those thyroid labs ;)
Posted 4/17/2016 5:54 PM (GMT 0)

3style said...
So I would say that all my good doctors agree that it is important to only treat what the immune system can recognize, otherwise you risk additional autoimmune or allergic or toxic die off reactions.

Well, I would consider Dr. J. (Dr. in Under Our Skin) - a good Dr. He usually treats all three B's.

I would prefer to treat them all rather than have to go back into treatment several years later...

It doesn't mean you have to go on a bunch of antibiotics...you could use herbs.
Posted 4/18/2016 2:07 AM (GMT 0)
Hi,
I have chronic Lyme disease. I am on my 16th week of IV rochephin and 6th week of oral Azithromycin. Recently my ears started to ring constantly without stopping. The ringing sound goes from a high pitch to low and vice versa. I have headaches only on my left side of my head and pain on the bottom of my head and neck. Does anyone else encounter my problem? Thanks Bonnie
Posted 4/18/2016 3:49 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Bonnie - I'm sorry you're dealing with the tinnitus.

I know that some antibiotics can cause tinnitus..but I haven't researched which ones...sorry!

But, I also know that it can be the infection causing it. You could very well be herxing from the rocephin/azithromycin combo.
Another thought is that the lyme treatment has allowed a co-infection to come to the forefront.

I have pulsatile tinnitus - but it started before I was taking any antibiotics. So, I don't hear a ringing, instead I feel a pulse in my ears...and when I put my head on the pillow, I hear a sort of swoosh/swoosh.

It has gotten so much better with treatment...I'd say it's about 80% better now.

I hope you get relief soon.
Posted 4/18/2016 3:50 AM (GMT 0)
I also wanted to ask you how much longer you will be on the Rocephin IV?

And..have you discussed the tinnitus with your LLMD?
Posted 4/18/2016 12:40 PM (GMT 0)
Bonnie - azith can cause ear stuff. You should tell your doc right away. You don't want permanent damage.
Posted 4/18/2016 2:01 PM (GMT 0)
Babesia is a protozoan parasite (over a 100 different strains, not all yet human identified). It can present with malaria symptoms.

I think in so many wanting to pigeon hole their diagnosis, it is not quite understood that many effected can have crossover with these vector borne diseases (MSIDS), i.e. any buggers that bite & infect blood, not excluding mosquitoes, fleas...blood transfusions...

A good doc will not only examine the blood, but will analyze all of the symptoms, including autoimmune & thyroid. So many with thyroid problems makes these vector borne diseases also highly suspect with autoimmune dysfunction.
Posted 4/18/2016 6:21 PM (GMT 0)
Hi, thanks for answering my post. I put a call into my IDD and I am waiting for a call back. I have 2 weeks left on both medications. Then I am supposed to be put on Flagyl. I did not take the Azithromycin today, I am waiting for the doctor to call.
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