HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Tips on starting buhner's protocol

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 4/17/2016 4:21 PM (GMT 0)
Hello all you lovely people!

I have put in my order with green dragon botanicals. I ordered Japanese knotweed capsules, cats claw capsules, elthuro tincture, and ashwaganda tincture.

How many capsules should I start out with? It says 1-4 tablets 3-4 times daily. Should I just start with one each per day?

Any ideas when is the best time to take them? Can I take them with my probiotics and other vitamins and supplements?

Also, would you recommend taking activated charcoal alongside this protocol?

Thanks everyone!
Posted 4/17/2016 4:31 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, start with one - say Eleutheros - and do one capsule that day. (Don't start them all together)

After a few days, everything okay - do two capsules - one in the morning, one in the evening.

Then after a few days, do one capsule three times a day.

Now that you're on a low dose of Eleutheros, then do the same with the JK.

You want to get them all in at low dose...and then start increasing - start with one, increase, then do the next, etc.

If at anytime, you herx...then go back down to the previous dose...up your detox...and try again after awhile.
Posted 4/17/2016 4:35 PM (GMT 0)
Did you try ashwaganda? It wasn't really in his core protocol but said it is good for sleep
Posted 4/17/2016 4:36 PM (GMT 0)
I tended to flow with what my body seemed to want - an intuitive thing. The first thing I added was Cat's Claw, then Japanese Knotwood, then I began a combination of the Buhner protocol. I think everyone's path seems to be a bit different - with that said - I think Girlie's advice is, knowing what I know now, a really solid direction to take. Good luck! Keep us posted.
Posted 4/17/2016 4:39 PM (GMT 0)
I took mine before breakfast, before lunch, before dinner.

You take the probiotics away from antibiotics - including herbal ones.

Yes, it's a good idea to take a binder, such as Activated charcoal. It's a great detox.
Take the activated charcoal when you aren't taking anything for two hours on either side. It will usher the toxins out...but also whatever else is in your stomach.
Posted 4/17/2016 4:45 PM (GMT 0)
Please consider that because lyme is immune suppressive and rarely travels alone, if you are not making as much headway as you would like after some time on the entire lyme protocol, think about adding herbs from Buhner's other protocols as well.

The coinfections, most commonly bartonella and the babesias, are very, very frequently involved too.
Posted 4/17/2016 4:53 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, what rowingmom said....the co-infections are often clinically diagnosed...and there is overlap...so what you're thinking is lyme (symptom-wise) ..may be bart...or babs.


And, you can add the co-infection herbs to the lyme herbs.
Posted 4/17/2016 5:21 PM (GMT 0)
Evianangel- I hope you don't mind me asking a question on your post! I'm full of questions today.

Is it safe to do the buhner protocol alongside antibiotics? Or should I try either of these and then if I'm not making progress add the other?
Posted 4/17/2016 5:31 PM (GMT 0)
I'm not Evianangel - but - yes it is safe to do Buhner with antibiotics.

I wouldn't start them both at the same time, though. You could set yourself up for a massive herx.

I would start the herbs first...they are good support, not just anti-bacterial.

You could get them in at low dose...and a month or two later add in the antibiotics....or not.....or wait longer.
Posted 4/17/2016 5:34 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, you can use Buhner's protocols along with antibiotic treatment. Just make sure that your LLMD is OK with this if you decide to go in that direction.

Because herbs have so many different constituents (natural efflux pump inhibitors etc.), unlike antibiotics which will only have 1 or 2, they will decrease the chance of bacterial resistance developing.

The antimicrobial herbs Buhner uses in his protocols can be just that - very antimicrobial, and will cause die-off and herx reactions just like antibiotics do. If you are adding them to an existing antimicrobial, expect even more die-off.

Other herbs in Buhner's protocols are anti-inflammatory and/or immune/detox supportive and are very necessary, but should not result in the significant die-off that the antimicrobials produce.
Posted 4/17/2016 5:46 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you Girlie and Rowingmom for your help!
Posted 4/17/2016 5:59 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you everyone for the info!
Faith- I don't mind at all, welcome to the forum! You can email me anytime you'd like if you want to chat or ask anything :)
Posted 4/17/2016 9:46 PM (GMT 0)
You're on the right path! I think everyone eventually finds their way to Buhner's herbs if they have lyme and they want to heal -I am still in the dumps with it but improving i think. Good luck!
Posted 4/18/2016 12:39 PM (GMT 0)
I hope you'll consider taking some of the supportive herbs that Buhner recommends. In fact, I like the idea of starting the supportive herbs first - sort of like preparing the body for battle.

Without a doubt, herbs can pack quite a punch and you'll want to start out as Girlie recommended.

And, I couldn't agree more with rowingmom's suggestion to trial Babs/Bart herbs. Bartonella is so common that researchers are saying Lyme should be considered the coinfection and Babesia/protozoal infection seems to be very prevalent as well.

It's treating for the coinfections that is closing the gap between the 90% healing I achieved on abx and my dream of 100%.

Good luck!!
Posted 4/18/2016 3:51 PM (GMT 0)
I'd definitely like to do all I can do. I have been having really bad bouts of muscle and joint stiffness lately.

What are his supportive herbs? I looked on his website but I didn't see them.

As for the confections do you treat those at the same time? Or after lyme?

Thanks
Posted 4/18/2016 3:57 PM (GMT 0)
A couple: Red Root, Hawthorn

Red Root - for the lymph system
Hawthorn - cardiovascular system


His books also have lists of 'symptom specific' herbs.


The website isn't supported anymore...and there have been some changes/additions to his protocols.
Posted 4/18/2016 3:58 PM (GMT 0)
I would start with Lyme specific herbs, and later add in herbs for the co-infections.
Posted 4/18/2016 3:58 PM (GMT 0)
Ohh thanks girlie. I think I should order the book on Amazon today. I have a feeling the herbs will take a while to get here anyway so I have time to research.
Posted 4/18/2016 4:02 PM (GMT 0)
This is Buhner's latest protocol in his new book.

1. Protecting endothelial structures (pg 214) - Polygonum cuspidatum (Hu Zhang or Japanese Knotweed)

2. Cytokine remodulation (pg 214) - Salvia miltiorrhiza (Red Sage) and Scutellaria baicalensis (Skullcap or Huang Qin)

3. Collagen protection (pg 214) - Great lakes gelatin, Vit C, Selenium, etc

4. Immune remodulation (pg 215) - Unicaria tomentosa (Cat's Claw), Cordyceps mycelium (a mushroom), withania somnifera (ashwagandha), Eleutherococcus senticosus, Glycyrrhiza (licorice)

5. Antispirochetal (pg 215) - Andrographis

But if you have particular problems you need to add that in also. I had heart involvement so I added in Motherwort and Hawthorn.

For muscle stiffness Buhner writes: I primarily use American wood betony (pedicularis spp) and motherwort for muscle relaxation—a combination tincture, equal parts, 1 tsp 3x daily.

The collagen supplement may help with the joint stiffness. Buhner suggests for arthritis:

Stephen’s response:
Here is what I would do to begin with:
Knotweed
Cat‘s claw
Teasel root tincture
Glucosamine sulfate 4,000 mg daily (2,000 am and pm)

If that doesn’t take care of it within two-three months, add:
Biosil
Cal/mag effervescent powder from Thorne Research
Vitamin D3, 20,000 IU daily

And possibly:
Selenium 200 mcg daily
Zinc picolinate 50 mg daily until symptoms resolve
Posted 4/18/2016 4:06 PM (GMT 0)
Wow thank you PeteZa that's awesome! I placed on my order on green dragon botanicals and the shipping along with the exchange rate was so expensive maybe I could get those other support herbs somewhere else.
Thanks you!
Posted 4/18/2016 4:17 PM (GMT 0)
I went crazy when I ordered but you don't have to. Remember you are starting out low and going slow.
Posted 4/18/2016 6:12 PM (GMT 0)
Monteagle Herbs ships internationally and they sell tinctures as well as bulk herbs if you want to encapsulate your own or make your own tinctures.

They are one of Buhner's recommended sources and I know I've been happy with the bulk herbs I bought from them:

monteagleherbs.ca/


I think it's very important for us to understand the infection and disease process because that helps us understand what needs to happen for healing....it's definitely not all about killing the bugs.

We need to make our bodies inhospitable to the organisms to prevent relapse. This involves healing the damaged parts of the body, reducing inflammation, detoxing and rebuilding the immune system.

Buhner outlines all of these concepts in his book and explains how different herbs can help. The list of herbal recommendations for specific symptoms runs into many pages.....and that is how we each craft a healing protocol best suited for us.

Here are some hyperlinks I created for Buhner's books:

tinyurl.com/buhnerbabs

tinyurl.com/buhnerbartmyco

tinyurl.com/buhnerlyme

And, yes, low and slow is always the way to go.
Posted 4/18/2016 6:26 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you Cd! Do you think then it is safe to say once you have chronic lyme in your body you always will?

If you heal you got your immune system up to a level where the lyme is contained, but is it still always there?

I believe what happened to me is I got bit in 2012, didn't really have any clue. I had anxiety and neck stiffness. Then it went dormant. Then returned after I had my baby.
Posted 4/19/2016 2:19 AM (GMT 0)
Angel,

I do not mean to upset you, but I want to make you aware of the possibilities.

If you were sick before you had your baby, your child may have Lyme disease. It is possible that he/she does not, but I want to make you aware.

The same situation happened to me and a few other mothers on this site.

I wish someone would have told me this many years ago so I could have looked for the warning signs early.

I sincerely hope your child is not infected, but knowledge is power.

-Blessings on your healing journey

PS-I just started Buhner a few weeks ago. I can already notice a difference. It works!
Posted 4/19/2016 12:56 PM (GMT 0)

evianangel said...
Thank you Cd! Do you think then it is safe to say once you have chronic lyme in your body you always will?

If you heal you got your immune system up to a level where the lyme is contained, but is it still always there?

Happy to help! :)

Yes, it seems that unless someone gets prompt and thorough treatment after a tick bite, the infection goes chronic and remission is our only hope.

I think the situation with Lyme is similar to the one with EBV or chicken pox, for example. We can have the infection(s) then heal....but it/they can reactivate at times of great stress (physical or mental).
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12