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Low WBC count with Antibiotics HELP!

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Posted 6/2/2016 3:05 AM (GMT 0)
Hey guys I've been with my LMD for almost 7 months now. After finally finding some direction. I need help if anyone knows.

My WBC and neutropenic count drop so much with antibitotics. It's hard for me to stay on for more than a week. I'm taking marrow plus to help battle it. But my WBC keep dropping. I stay at about 3-4 normally and it drops down to 2.5 and lower during antibiotics.

I know not everyone has this. So for those that do. Any recommendations or what have you done or your doctor has planned for you that helps.

Thanks a bunch , were all gonna make it

-Nate

Post Edited (4321nate) : 6/1/2016 9:18:57 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/2/2016 3:08 AM (GMT 0)
Nate you have options if antibiotics do not work for you.

Just want you to know this.
Posted 6/2/2016 3:54 AM (GMT 0)
Try taking some immune boosting supplements and see if it helps. I took colostrum for a year or so when I was battling with a serious sinus infection, it works really well. Also Astragalus, Echinacea, Vitamin D3, Zinc, Vitamin A and C. Make chicken soup with vinegar to pull the nutrients from the bone, or other bone broths. And some good probiotics.
While you are boosting your immune system, I personally would take a break from antibiotics for a while until your white count rises and stabilizes. You can always start them back later or begin with one of the herbal protocols. Have you been on antibiotics for the 7 months you have seen your LLMD? Your body may need a break. I personally can not take antibiotics for a long period of time, much over 6 weeks, without feeling really toxic.
Some people run a low white count normally. If yours continues to be under 3, you might want to consult with a Hematologist.
Posted 6/2/2016 4:31 AM (GMT 0)
Nate - my WBC count dropped when I went on antibiotics, too.
prior to abx, I ran around 4.5 - so not really high anyway...then for the first few months it dropped to about 4...and then after into the 3's. Lowest for me I believe was mid 2.0's.

After about 9 1/2 months of abx, my liver enzymes had climbed...so took a 2 1/2 month break...during that time my wbc count went up to 4.0.

Started treating bartonella with Rifampin, and my liver enzymes continued to stay in range - surprisingly...but my wbc count started to drop again. That has been about 9 months of bart treatment (a few shorter breaks in that 9months) - and my wbc hasn't dropped below 3.2

I did discuss with my regular Dr. and she wasn't worried about it - even in the mid 2.0's.

I wonder if it's the infection contribution to the low wbc count...

But, as PeteZa said - there's always herbal options to treat.
Posted 6/2/2016 5:02 AM (GMT 0)
Thank you for all the responses.
Posted 6/2/2016 5:08 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Nate, sorry to hear about your white cells.

I can relate. I've had really low neutrophil counts since starting abx. At one point it was 0.7 I believe. Recovered a bit since then, but still continually low.
I've also had low WBC, RBC, and urate in my blood pretty consistently on all my monthly labs.

Anyway, even though I'm still on antibiotics, on my most recent blood test (few days ago), everything turned around drastically. All of my readings are now in the normal range, except for neutrophils, which are 1.4.

I haven't added much in the last month, but here's what I have added, just fyi:

curcurmin with back pepper extract: 3000mg/day
sida acuta from woodland essence: 30 drops 3x/day
artemisinin 1300mg per day; 4-5 days on, 4-5 days off.

Now I don't think the artemisinin had anything to do with this, and I'm less familiar with what Sida Acuta actually does, so I think curcurmin is probably the likely hero for me. It's known decrease inflammation and cytokine production.

Again, not really sure what's going on with me, but my labs are drastically improved over a 30 day time period that I thought I'd share.
Posted 6/2/2016 5:24 PM (GMT 0)
That is great mustardseed2. Mine turned around quite quickly, too (but not that quickly)- I did stop antibiotics...but surprisingly after going back on - my labs are good. (My wbc isn't in range, but it's better)

You don't think it's Artemisinin and also sida acuta perhaps hitting babesia? I know babesia messes with the RBC.

Although that is a really quick turnaround, isn't it?
Posted 6/2/2016 5:35 PM (GMT 0)
Ya, I suspect because I just started the art and sida 4 or 5 weeks ago, that if it was killing Babesia, then my RBC would have been down, because they're getting exploded as the parasite dies.

To be honest I really have no idea why my labs turned around so quickly, but I think it has to be one of those 3 thing I listed because that's literally all I've changed in the last month. Food for thought regardless.

EDIT: the other, more grim point of view, is that perhaps the Babesia have finally become resistant to the Malarone I'm taking. I'm hoping this isn't the case haha
Posted 6/18/2016 10:45 PM (GMT 0)
So what happens when your WBC drop and you must stop with abx? Does it mean that you hinder the treatment?
I ask this because I also have low WBC.
Posted 6/18/2016 10:53 PM (GMT 0)
Well the danger with low WBC is that if you get an infection, you'll have a harder time fighting it off.
Posted 6/19/2016 12:07 AM (GMT 0)
Stopping antibiotics puts your treatment on hold.


If the WBC count gets really low - then you will need to wear a mask in public so you don't catch an infection.

That would mean a WBC count less than 2... closer to 1 or less.

Blueberrymuffin - what is your WBC count?
Posted 6/19/2016 8:48 AM (GMT 0)
Low WBC is really common. In many cases it is your body finally identifying infection and fighting it. Some of these infections are unique in that your wb's self sacrifice to kill them.

I was on colostrum when my WBC got really really bad. It helps immune boost. A mask isn't the worst idea I just couldn't get myself to do it when it's 90 out. I didn't get sick but I still seem to get ever single little bug people come up with when I am around them.

The lowest my WBC got was low 2's
Posted 6/19/2016 2:01 PM (GMT 0)
For what it's worth, I was listening to a lecture by Dr. M, and he was talking about when treating his Bartonella patients, he expects WBC (specifically neutrophil) count to drop, and ast and alt to rise, once he starts treatment. He actually uses this as a cue that the medication is doing something.

Of course, don't let your body get out of control.

Edit: here's the link, fast forward to 1:19:00

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYEHsRRxrQw

Post Edited (Mustard Seed) : 6/19/2016 8:06:14 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/19/2016 7:34 PM (GMT 0)
thanks mustard reallllly really really great info
Posted 6/19/2016 8:25 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie, my WBC is 2.5.
But the problem with me is that my WBC were low even before I started abx. And they are not stable. They have a tendency to drop. I don't know how to stop it.

Which is the bottomline of WBC when you can still take abx? Is it 2, or it can be for example 1.5?

Is there any natural way how to increase WBC? Some food, herb...?
Posted 6/20/2016 1:33 AM (GMT 0)
My regular GP (not lyme literate) - was okay with me continuing on antibiotics when it was in the 2's.
But it wasn't often below 2.9 - usually in the 3's.

It's interesting for me that when I treated bartonella - my wbc count was fine after many months of it being less than 4.0 (bottom end of range) and has stayed higher for almost a year now...
almost opposite of what you'd expect to happen.

blueberrymuffin - is it always 2.5 - does it ever go up to 3.0...or high 2's?

And never below 2.5?

I think if it doesn't continue to drop you should be okay. What does your Dr. say about it?
Posted 6/20/2016 5:20 AM (GMT 0)
Trying transfer factors ..it mostly colostrum..also catclaw ,reishi ,cordyceps to raise wbc
Posted 6/20/2016 6:35 AM (GMT 0)
Colostrum powder.

I use symbiotics.

It works great.
Posted 6/20/2016 7:50 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you all for your replies. Is it possible to take Colostrum with abx, since it is made of milk, and on my abx it is written not to take it with dairy products, as they diminish effect of abx?

Girlie, my WBC was 2.8 before starting abx. then they dropped to 2. then I paused with abx. Now they are 2.5 and currently I take abx again.

My Dr. says it is fine if it is not below 2. But I am so afraid it will drop :( I want to do everything possible to prevent it from dropping again. So that I don't need to stop my abx :(
I don't know what to do.
Posted 6/20/2016 7:52 PM (GMT 0)
They might not get any lower than where they're at now.


I was worried like you...I thought even after the 2 1/2 month break, they would just continue to rise again...But they didn't...it's so unpredictable with these infections/treatments.
Posted 6/21/2016 7:02 AM (GMT 0)
I took colostrum powder with abx and I was fine. My LLMD actually recommended it.

Great immune booster.

It's not "exactly" milk dairy either.
Posted 6/21/2016 9:42 PM (GMT 0)
Jackie Moon - where did you get the colostrum powder? Would you mind sharing the brand?
Posted 6/22/2016 7:33 PM (GMT 0)
thank you very much.
I was afraid because my doctor told me to strictly avoid dairy product 2 hours before and after abx, as calcium that they contain diminish the effect of abx.
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