Part 3 - I learned what Lyme really is and wanted to share - may be upsetting to some!!!

Returning to this topic after having read thru the other pages

I feel that there is a lot of misinformation, speculation and borderline hysteria going on here ..

With all due respect to the original poster, could someone please point to any reason why Outer Surface Protein A was repeatedly referred to as fungal in origin in Part 1 of this discussion ??

I would appreciate any links with info ( not homemade lyme hysteria links, but scientific reports )

Very simply, many who developed serious symptoms after receiving the lyme vaccination most likely had undiagnosed lyme prior ..... Common sense tells me that those who received the vaccination lived in endemic areas to begin with, and carried the bacteria - when the vaccination was introduced, it created a immune response, and, the pre existing infection was no longer hidden ..

I never received a vaccination, however, I had migraines for a year, took doxy for two weeks and was ok - for 48 hours - after that, all heck broke loose ..

Did doxy cause my symptoms ?? .. I cannot say for certainty, but common sense tells me that the doxy simply shown the spotlight on the ( an ) infection that had gone undetected - much the same as introducing ospA would in a person with "dormant" lyme

Post Edited (Tommy08) : 9/18/2016 6:41:49 PM (GMT-6)

k07 said...
I've had 23andme testing. What are the genes - want to look mine up. Thanks!

k07, get to the page where you can a search for what you want to find ( .. I've got no issues with brain fog or comprehending, however, that 23 And Me site is very difficult to navigate :)

The critical Superoxide D i s m u t a s e results are: SOD2

There are SOD1, SOD2 and SOD3 ... From my limited understanding, SOD2 is the more important, but all are good to know about ..

Now, the problem translating them comes in .... I "manually" translated mine - I found a page that listed the variants and reviewed each of my results ..

Do you belong to another site that translates or decodes your results ???

Post Edited (Tommy08) : 9/18/2016 9:08:53 PM (GMT-6)

Sod and catalyse are used to process ozone and h202 so carful if you do iv ..also biotics has a supplemeny but seems higj in veggie histamines ..u may try again ...

Did you mean to make a new post? Put it in the wrong place?

This very lenghty post has been about B, T cells, and lyme immune reaction/ response.

SOD and and mutations are interesting, but not realated to this already super long topic. Maybe make a new post.

We all have mutations, which can make more complications.

Georgia Hunter said...

Tommy08 said...
EDIT: Not sure why the word "d i s m u t a s e" is being blocked here

weird ................

I haven't been very active here lately, mostly due to the frustration with finding the right treatment, and having had grown weary of seeing all the antibiotic/herb related posts based on killing organisms, as I have long suspected there is a huge missing piece in recovery that is not centered around eradicating an organism ..

Hopefully Georgia Hunter or someone else with some knowledge on this can provide more information, but I would like to bring up something that I believe is critical, and that I have not seen mentioned in this thread ..

If you are not familiar with Superoxide Di****ase, I urge to read more about it ..

My very simplistic understanding is this, please correct me if I am wrong:

Our bodies create and use superoxide to kill pathogens .. Superoxide is released from white blood and is used to eradicate invaders ( bacterial, fungal, protozoal, viral ) ... But while superoxide is beneficial and helpful in that way, left in it's lethal state, it can begin to cause more harm than good ( superoxide is considered a TOXIN )

Our bodies created something called SUPEROXIDE DI****ASE to convert the toxic superoxide into ordinary oxygen and/or hydrogen peroxide .. After that conversion, the resulting oxygen is used in a beneficial manner ...

Ok, so what is the problem ??

Much the same as the MTHFR gene mutation, many people have a genetic variant that limits the production of Superoxide Di****ase, thus, the toxic superoxide is left unconverted and becomes an inflammatory nightmare ...

There are three different Superoxide Di****ase types, and, I believe, two are made up of zinc and copper and the other manganese .....

I bring this up because thru my 23 And Me testing I recently found that I have 6 heterozygous variants out of 14 on my Superoxide Di****ase test ...

There is a connection here with glutathione, but I am still in the infant stages of learning about all of this ..

I think that it is a huge piece of the puzzle for many people ... Again, if someone who is well versed with this can chime in and provide more light, that would be great !!

www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2006/6/report_sod/Page-01

I don't understand your question.

I am wondering about the role of SOD, the fact that some people have genetic issues creating it and how big of an issue it can be when dealing with chronic health issues ie could SOD ( or the lack of ) have a role in what is called "post lyme syndrome"

I also would like to hear some explanation or thoughts about the comment that ospA is fungal

How can it be called PTLDS when a person is been treated for the first time with a positive test?

And if an individual testes continuously positive even after treatment, lyme positive than we cannot call it PTLDS....that would be after treatment when a person still manifest symptoms but testing is negative.

People who are treated the first time with abx and have symptoms cannot be considered PTLSD IMO because there are still being treated.

Ok. OspA is a fungal antigen. This is the part that was really confusing to me as well. I'll use links to explain it. Please remember that I'm new to this as well, I don't really know what I'm talking about, and I posted what I did learn because I wanted to share the discussion. I'm not trying to sway anyone, I'm not trying to be a grinch, I'm not trying to post misinformation. I'm ok with being wrong, that's how you learn things.

I found this information trying to define something my doctor said to me that upset me and I didn't want to believe. I tried to prove him wrong and couldn't. Heres why:

"Early Lyme disease prior to antibiotic therapy was characterized by marked upregulation of Toll-like receptor signaling but lack of activation of the inflammatory T-cell apoptotic and B-cell developmental pathways seen in other acute infectious syndromes.” Immune suppression.

journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1004976

OspA is Pam3cys is (maybe the correct term is fungal-like antigen?) and is capable of immune suppression.

/m.facebook.com/notes/kathleen-dickson/20-reports-show-autism-lyme-ospa-and-fungal-immunosuppression-competency-trainin/822596964439192/


^^^^^^^ that link is 20 references to published articles

Post Edited By Moderator (Traveler) : 9/19/2016 4:13:57 PM (GMT-6)

CDC on chronic EBV causing fatigue via mitochondrial dysfunction



Preliminary evidence of mitochondrial dysfunction associated with post-infective fatigue after acute infection with Epstein Barr virus.

"Those who developed post-infective fatigue had gene expression profiles indicative of an altered host response during acute mononucleosis compared to those who recovered uneventfully. Several genes including ISG20 (interferon stimulated gene), DNAJB2 (DnaJ [Hsp40] homolog and CD99), CDK8 (cyclin-dependent kinase 8), E2F2 (E2F transcription factor 2), CDK8 (cyclin-dependent kinase 8), and ACTN2 (actinin, alpha 2), known to be regulated during EBV infection, were differentially expressed in post-infective fatigue cases. Several of the differentially expressed genes affect mitochondrial functions including fatty acid metabolism and the cell cycle."

"CONCLUSION: These preliminary data provide insights into alterations in gene transcripts associated with the varied clinical outcomes from acute infectious mononucleosis." www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16448567


And the CDC admits in this same report, full text, that it has been known for 50 years that Chronic EBV is associated with Chronic Fatigue:



"However, some individuals exhibit prolonged illness with fatigue, mood changes and cognitive impairment. Such prolonged illness following infectious mononucleosis has been recognized for at least half a century [9]."
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373655/?tool=pubmed

NIH, in the NYTimes once again, Lyme activates the herpes:


When Lyme Disease Lasts and Lasts – Jane Brody
"Complicating the picture is the fact that some people with PTLDS symptoms apparently never had Lyme disease in the first place, Dr. Marques said in an interview. There are other infectious organisms — Epstein-Barr virus, for example — that can produce similar symptoms and may be the real culprits."
well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/08/when-lyme-disease-lasts-and-lasts/

Clinical pathologic correlations of Lyme disease.

"Immature B cells can also be seen in the spinal fluid. These cells can appear quite atypical- not unlike those of transformed or neoplastic lymphocytes." --
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2814170
Full Text: http://www.actionlyme.org/IDSA_CLINIPATH_DURAY.htm

1992, Paul Duray, in Lyme Disease: Molecular and Immunologic Approaches. – 1992 book.
"On occasion, these atypical-appearing large lymphocytes have been misinterpreted in biopsy by several laboratories as cells of a malignant lymphoma or leukemia. Bb antigens, then, may stimulate growth of immature lymphocytic suibsets in some target organs, as well as in the cerebrospinal fluid (Szyfelbein and Ross 1988). Usual bacterial infections do not produce such lymphocytic infiltrates in tissue. These immunoblastoid cells in Bb infections at times resemble those found in Epstein-Barr virus infections. Does Bb reactivate latent virus infections in tissues? Do some tick inocula harbor simultaneous infectious agents (ixodid ticks can harbor Rickettsiae, Babesia microti, and Ehrlichia bacteria, in addition to Bb), producing multi-agent infections in some hosts? Further studies can clarify these issues by mans of tissue-based molecular probe analysis." -

Paul Duray, NCI, NIH, Ft. Detrick, at the 1992 ALDF Cold Spring Harbor Conference

www.amazon.com/Lyme-Disease-Immunologic-Approaches-Communications/dp/0879693770

Post Edited By Moderator (Traveler) : 9/19/2016 4:15:59 PM (GMT-6)

Nope, no rules broken, but I did go through and make the links into hyperlinks.

Well tommy a good lyme doc should be addressing candida and fungal infections anyways......

Get a triquarter and we can end this debate ...buhner was right ahut down cyokine storm but infection still rages ..look under a microscope they are there even pza feels it

happyjo - I had a laugh about the autocorrect and the 'speak and say'.

I did read in one of the posts IHL said she is still taking abx.

(not sure when she will be back on to post again)