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Posted 11/22/2016 2:25 AM (GMT 0)
This just goes along with healing your symptoms and why.

Did you know the nervous system communicates with all of the body?

If your lyme symptoms are wreaking havoc on your nervous system, then it can affect all sorts of things in your body.

Therefore, treat the symptoms and the systems are treated as well; I guess that's one way of looking at it.

This is why it's so important to fix your specific needs. But one I think is most important is the nervous system.. All that extra stress can hinder the proper functioning of your nervous system, which affects digestion, and assimilation of nutrients in the body, breathing, detox, etc, etc.

Just wanted to pass on some thoughts again. I've been feeling a lot better after some 'nervous system' herbs.

Im more beggining to feel that I should aim more towards babesia and bartonella treatment as well. Having added houtuynnia and sida acuta have been great.

Anyway just wanted to share more thoughts again.
Posted 11/22/2016 2:51 AM (GMT 0)
Lyme,

What are the nervous system herbs you added? Do you do only herbs?

I thought the goal is to treat our systems first (detox and build them up) then start treating by symptoms?

Since I'm pretty much not doing anything correctly, probably best not to listen to me - LOL!

Thanks for this - most of us need NS help for sure. That's probably my main overall symptom.
Posted 11/22/2016 3:30 AM (GMT 0)
A well thought out protocol, is supposed to do what you described. I take a protocol of herbs and supplement that both kills the bugs but then also addresses certain body functions and symptoms.

I've always advocated that a "supportive" regiment is as important if not more important then just "attack" lyme.
Posted 11/22/2016 12:34 PM (GMT 0)
Dacarte,

Good morning. We seem similar where we both took abx for two+ months and are now doing herbs.

I toss and turn over this because I want to heal fast.

Which herbs are you taking? How are you doing now?
Posted 11/22/2016 2:51 PM (GMT 0)
Huddle, we have to remember that Lyme healing fast is not in the same time period as other infections healing fast.

Think of Lyme healing as a tortoise, and healing other infections as a hare/rabbit. Now think of the tale of the hare and the tortoise.

For the most part, the only way to heal the symptoms is to address the infection in that system of the body. We use herbs that "soothe" moderate to severe symptoms so that we can tolerate the treatments.
Posted 11/22/2016 2:58 PM (GMT 0)

Huddie said...
Lyme,


Since I'm pretty much not doing anything correctly, probably best not to listen to me - LOL!

Huddie....I almost spit out my coffee I was laughing so hard! I feel the same way! lol
Posted 11/22/2016 2:59 PM (GMT 0)
Trav,

Thanks. I know it's slow going. I just feel that I cannot get herbs into me fast enough.

I'm feeling blue today because I haven't been out in a week. I'm not feeling well and honestly I feel like I'm not getting better. Just feeling like everything new I try makes me worse.

I haven't even begun to treat Babs (and possibly Bart). I'm feeling overwhelmed with being able to somewhat function so I can take care of my son.

Sorry feeling extremely negative today which isn't my usual nature.

I may just go back on antibiotics and see what happens. I don't think I'm touching anything with what few herbs I am on and feel I'm making matters worse with new cycles, more bacteria, etc... I have lost faith today.
Posted 11/22/2016 3:03 PM (GMT 0)
PMM,

Glad you giggled and glad I'm not the only one who thinks they are doing it all wrong.

You will get there.
Posted 11/22/2016 3:13 PM (GMT 0)
You both will get there!!

Huddie, if you don't have a virus, and this is herxing, you will find yourself dealing with the same things on abx - just so you understand. I would encourage you to increase your detoxing and see if that helps.

Personally, I don't care at all which approach people use, I just want them to understand what may be going on and to heal!!
Posted 11/22/2016 3:20 PM (GMT 0)
Trav,

Thanks. I detox a ton. I don't think I can detox any more than I do already. It seems like an all day job. I have an appt next week with LLMD again. They want to see me since nothing seems to be easily tolerated with me. Sorry, I'm just over this and don't really care today. Maybe it's a neuro herx or something. I am not usually like this. I do everything right and keep a constant vigilance on my health and I seem to be getting worse. I have one or two goods days and then I'm bad again. I don't want to live my life in my apartment. Sorry I should not be posting today. No one needs to hear my rants.
Posted 11/22/2016 3:42 PM (GMT 0)

Huddie said...
Trav,

Thanks. I detox a ton. I don't think I can detox any more than I do already. It seems like an all day job. I have an appt next week with LLMD again. They want to see me since nothing seems to be easily tolerated with me. Sorry, I'm just over this and don't really care today. Maybe it's a neuro herx or something. I am not usually like this. I do everything right and keep a constant vigilance on my health and I seem to be getting worse. I have one or two goods days and then I'm bad again. I don't want to live my life in my apartment. Sorry I should not be posting today. No one needs to hear my rants.

Huddie, you are always so great at responding to others' rants/fears/symptoms...you certainly are entitled to your own! I had a bad day yesterday: to think that my brain might be swelling due to infection was scary. I was afraid to go to sleep (I know, irrational fear). I had to try to find some perspective to calm myself down. The only thing that I could find was (and I sometimes loathe this statement, especially from my LLMD) "this is Lyme." This is what Lyme is. Others have had (or do have) the same symptoms and are here to talk about it; it's frustrating, sad, yet oddly comforting. The good days, the bad days, the panic moments, the new symptoms, the old symptoms, the vicious cycle of it all: this is Lyme. I want it to be over soon, too, because, in all honesty, this life s**ks. Sometimes I wallow in the misery of it all. Other times, like today, I can feel myself becoming more accepting of the process and the journey, and I feel clearheaded and strong enough to keep sight of the big picture - the time when it won't be this way.

I don't know if that helps you at all. I hope you feel better. Hugs to you. xo
Posted 11/22/2016 4:07 PM (GMT 0)
PMM,

Thank you so much. You words helped me tremendously. I'm actually crying now. I think the holidays are emotional for me since the loss of my brother so maybe that's it. I want to see my mom who is in a nursing home but I can't travel. I'm sorry she is going to pass and I didn't get to see her. Last night my son cried and told me has no holiday spirit because he feels so bad (he has lyme too). My poor husband works ten hours day and comes home to me in bed (by night I'm tired), then he has to get up with my son. I mean how much longer will he want to be doing this? My 80 years old in-laws threw a dinner party Saturday night. They have more energy. It's getting crazy that our lives are so freakin diminished. I not a pity-party person today is just a breaking day.

It helps to know that you were bad yesterday and are so hopeful today. Thank you. What makes you think your brain is inflamed? Yes, this is lyme. When will be able to say 'That WAS lyme." That is what I would like to know.

Thanks PMM, you have been very helpful and comforting. I appreciate that. Thankyou.
Posted 11/22/2016 4:33 PM (GMT 0)
I agree with PMM - you have offered many words of comfort here, Huddie! You too can come here to vent, you know! wink

And, I completely understand!! I had to commit to detoxing like my life depended on it - because it did, especially after the failure of abx. It was an all day process for me, as I went from one detoxing routine to the next throughout the day, with only a few minutes break in between. This may indicate genetic mutations that are keeping your detox pathways from working as well as they should be, or "simply" that you are in a more serious herxing situation, but nothing to be afraid of.

When we are herxing, we feel sooo bad sometimes, that it's simply impossible (for me at least!) to keep even a decent outlook! Forget feeling cheery and ready to be nice to people!!

As you know, no one can answer the question when this will be over with, unfortunately. I so wish there were 'fast fixes' for these infections, but we don't have that. It takes as long as it takes, but at least we have others here to help support us and understand what we are living with.

For me, as much as I hate it (and believe me, I detest it!!), I know that the worse I feel, the more I must do to help my body. Every detail has to be checked, from the food I eat and water I drink (to be sure I'm eating and drinking like I know I should be), to checking the detox suggestions to make sure I'm doing everything I can to help remove toxins. For me, this is the hardest part of these diseases - feeling like we've been run over several times and having to get up and do more!!! Ugh - but such is the Lymie's life.

What we do know is that we do heal and this all slows way down again!

Hang in there!! Big ((((((((((hugs)))))))))) to you too!!
Posted 11/22/2016 4:35 PM (GMT 0)

Huddie said...
PMM,

Thank you so much. You words helped me tremendously. I'm actually crying now. I think the holidays are emotional for me since the loss of my brother so maybe that's it. I want to see my mom who is in a nursing home but I can't travel. I'm sorry she is going to pass and I didn't get to see her. Last night my son cried and told me has no holiday spirit because he feels so bad (he has lyme too). My poor husband works ten hours day and comes home to me in bed (by night I'm tired), then he has to get up with my son. I mean how much longer will he want to be doing this? My 80 years old in-laws threw a dinner party Saturday night. They have more energy. It's getting crazy that our lives are so freakin diminished. I not a pity-party person today is just a breaking day.

It helps to know that you were bad yesterday and are so hopeful today. Thank you. What makes you think your brain is inflamed? Yes, this is lyme. When will be able to say 'That WAS lyme." That is what I would like to know.

Thanks PMM, you have been very helpful and comforting. I appreciate that. Thankyou.

There is something going on with my head besides just CNS symptoms - the back of my head hurts almost constantly. It hurts to even lay on a pillow. I thought maybe swollen lymph nodes in that area or possibly occipital nerve/migraine stuff, but brain inflammation also seems to be common while fighting this infection. Like I said, I freaked out yesterday, but I'm trying to keep perspective.

My grandmother is turning 90 and she's working Thanksgiving morning AND cooking dinner with my mom, while I'm nervous about just driving there. Seems like it should be the opposite.

You certainly are dealing with a lot and for that I am so sorry. I wish all the other life stuff could just stop until we are feeling better. It's hard to deal with other serious issues when your mind and body aren't right. And it's definitely hard to heal while trying to deal with other life stuff. Try not to panic (easier said than done, right?). And try to go easy on yourself today until you are feeling a little better. Will keep you and your family in my prayers. xo
Posted 11/22/2016 4:47 PM (GMT 0)
I too am very, very sorry, Huddie. Holidays have new levels of stress and issues for those with chronic health issues. We are so very limited in what we can do and where we can go at times.

And don't forget, marriage vows usually say "in sickness and health" and many take that part of the vows very seriously - and it's not only those that have had wedding vows that take that seriously. Talk with your hubby and let him know how grateful you are (encourage your son to do the same) and be sure he understands that he's not being taken for granted as well and that this WILL all end just as soon as you and your son are in a better place - you don't even have to wait until you are completely healed to feel better!!
Posted 11/22/2016 4:48 PM (GMT 0)
Trav,

Thanks, as always. I know how busy you are right now and all that YOU have on your mind so please don't waste precious time on my rants. Your words always comfort though. I didn't realize you still are detoxing so much. I'm glad I'm not the only one who does it full time! Also comforting to hear you aren't always cheerful - you sound it!

PMM,
Thanks. Sorry about the head stuff. Last night my son was crying and I put my hand on his head (top of his crown) and he said it hurt so much. I guess same thing you are dealing with. I felt so bad. The LLMD is seeing him next week (they take months to see but asked us to come in). I'll let you know what he says - it may help you too. Keep a daily log of your symptoms.

I totally related to the 90 year old grandma story! I guess misery does like company because I'm glad I'm not the only one with these thought today. I suppose the holidays make us realize our limitations more than other times of the year. I will try and remember what this holiday is all about and stick with gratitude.

I am grateful for this board and you guys. I hope you both have a happy day.
Posted 11/22/2016 5:00 PM (GMT 0)
LOL, Huddie!!! I've had a LOT of practice at "sounding" okay - remember, I've lived nearly all my life with these infections, and have had 9 & 1/2 years on this forum to practice being functional. Lol!

When I was herxing from using the Cistus tea - back when you and I first 'met' - I was herxing pretty bad, and I was detoxing all day long, every single day. When that didn't work, I reduced my dose of Cistus tea - yet the serious herxing continued, so I reduced my doses of herbs for treatments. When that didn't help much, I stopped my herbs and continued detoxing daily - all day long - until I got the herx under control again. It really sucks to have to stop everything because it can take a bit of time to get back up to the doses I was taking, but it's much better than a serious herx that can be dangerous.

LOL! When I was in my 20's, my doctors that were trying to help me, used to say that I was their healthiest 90 year old patient they had. I was NOT impressed, but they were quite tickled with their joke.
Posted 11/22/2016 5:16 PM (GMT 0)
Trav,

You will forever be my inspiration. I had not idea you were still so sick when we meant. You hide it well. I do too, most days. Maybe that's it. I am Mary Sunshine for my son and husband (even from bed). Thanks for what you said about my husband, he does know I appreciate it but I think I'll write him a Thanksgiving card.

So what is your average day detox look like? Maybe I'm not not doing enough. Mine is:
o Detox tea (up to 3 cups a day now)
o Lemon water
o High dose vitamin C/magnesium
o Probiotic
o Essential oil mix on soles of feet
o Dry skin brushing
o Spirulina
o Rishi Green tea
o Apple Cider Vinegar
o Coconut oil moisturizer
o Clove/Thieves in nostrils/mouth
o Green juicing
o Alka Seltzer gold
o Dandelion
o Epsom salt foot baths

Tons of supplements too but this is just the detox list. I LOVE AC but hard to do unless middle of night.
Posted 11/22/2016 5:38 PM (GMT 0)

pmm73 said...

Huddie said...
Trav,

Thanks. I detox a ton. I don't think I can detox any more than I do already. It seems like an all day job. I have an appt next week with LLMD again. They want to see me since nothing seems to be easily tolerated with me. Sorry, I'm just over this and don't really care today. Maybe it's a neuro herx or something. I am not usually like this. I do everything right and keep a constant vigilance on my health and I seem to be getting worse. I have one or two goods days and then I'm bad again. I don't want to live my life in my apartment. Sorry I should not be posting today. No one needs to hear my rants.

Other times, like today, I can feel myself becoming more accepting of the process and the journey, and I feel clearheaded and strong enough to keep sight of the big picture - the time when it won't be this way.

This is a big and important mental hurdle to get over . But once you do it makes life better. You accept you have lyme, a full complete recovery is possible but can take a long time (1 - 3 years). But if you keep doing what you have to do each and every single day that day will come. This perspective brings peace and stress management is important.

Time does fly by. I'm almost a year into lyme and have recovered so much (and have not relapsed), and it feels like yesterday when I was scared, confused, worried, and panicking not knowing what was going on and thinking I was dying.

Sometimes you have to stop and think about the progress made and not just focus on how much further you may have left to go.

I had to learn not to wallow in feeling sorry for myself.

Don't forget to actually continue to live and experience life. Lyme doesn't define you.

All lessons I had to learn.
Posted 11/22/2016 5:48 PM (GMT 0)
Decarte,

Thank you so much. I so appreciate you taking the time to offer kind words. I was doing well and thought I had fully embraced this with optimism, and with grit. This is month five for me. The first two I was mostly in bed. Then I was starting to get better. I think I'm feeling defeated because I now seem back to where I was. I have a few glimpses of good days (I have no way to know when they will be) and then I'm bad again.

You are a year in now? What herbs do you take and what are you able to do? I know you can exercise so you must have strength. That is great. Have you been able to go on vacation? I don't even know how to plan life. My son is also healing lyme too so guess I'm extra stressed this month.

Thanks for the pep talk. I know you are right. I'm snapping out of it.
Posted 11/22/2016 5:51 PM (GMT 0)
It was very difficult to go slow in my treatment. I had a plan laid out and I stuck to it.

I believed Buhner when he said, "treat the most offensive symptom in the beginning." I did that. And then i followed his treatment to the best of my lyme brain fog ability. I had to write everything down.

I was the patient and the doctor and it was hard. But, slow and steady and I got there. Oh and I did not start Babs or Bart herbs until I had completed Lyme herbs. I was not knowledgeable enough to discern bart and babs from lyme and I wanted to eliminate each one by one.

I did lyme, then bart (because I did have a scratch mark) and then I did babs. It was MONTHS of lyme before ever starting the other two.

Huddie, please check for contraindications of the cloves/thieves with your herbs, especially since you are putting them on mucous membranes. I know cloves are a huge no-no with homeopathics but I have no info on the interaction with herbs and essential oils. Cloves are in the MC-BB2, but I don't know the source of those cloves.
Posted 11/22/2016 5:59 PM (GMT 0)
Peteza,

Thank you for this. It sounds like you healed in less than a year though no? I was reinfected so feel this is a longer haul. December will be six months for me and I'm getting very discouraged. Then whenever I feel something works there is some contraindication. I have been using Thieves in nostrils/mouth for years. I did not know about Cloves. I stopped the homeopathic meds until I see doctor next week. This is why taking herbs makes me so nervous. No medical supervision and who knows what interacts with anything else.

I have called so many herbalists and they either can't see new patients or they don't call back.

Wow, I must be herxing because I am Debbie Downer with nothing but negativity today. I think I'm panicking and don't know it. I have so much to do for Thanksgiving and can't do much. I have one day left to hope I feel better. I refuse to let this ruin everyone elses holiday.
Posted 11/22/2016 6:14 PM (GMT 0)
I was bit in April and healed in July the next year - so it was over a year.

By the 7 month time line I was taking the following 3 times a day and then a handful of supplements (about 20 pills) and I did 3 times a day gelatin, collagen, and biosil. Also did MC-BB1 1 dropper, 3 times a day and Tox Ease GL 1 dropper, 3 times a day

Japanese Knotweed - 2 droppers full
Hawthorn - 1 dropper full
Motherwort - 1 dropper full
Astragalus - 1 dropper full
Red Root - 2 droppers full
Red Sage - 1 dropper full
Skullcap - 1 dropper full
Gou Teng - 1 dropper full
Houttuynia -1 dropper full
Cryptolepis - 1 dropper full
Andrographis - 1 dropper full

It took me a lot of concentration to get all those herbs in me and working syngeristicly (is that a word?). I had every step written down on when I would up each herb, provided I was okay.

I looked at it as my JOB as the doctor. And as the patient, I had to listen to the doctor. LOL!!
Posted 11/22/2016 6:22 PM (GMT 0)
Oh Huddie,

I could have written all this myself! You guys have me crying now! I just started treatment 1.5 months ago and started to feel well right away, then week 4 and 5 hit, and I'm still recovering from it. I had a terrible start of the week last week, discovered this forum and it saved me. I learned so much already and I am so grateful! What I wanted to add here, other than a hug, is that when I felt a lot better towards the end of last week, I wrote myself a long letter, from healthy-feel good me, to the sick me, so I can read it on days like today, where its hard to get out of bed. My anxiety is through the roof again, my ears are pounding and I feel like the meds aren't working when I was so hopeful just a few days ago. I actually felt NORMAL for 4 days-its was beautiful and amazing!! I want more of that, and I just keep thinking, "trust in the wisdom of my body." Something my pre-natal yoga instructor would tell us when we were getting scared about pregnancy and delivery. This is a long process and its not an easy, its not-here take this medicine, you will feel like crap for a month and then bam-you are cured. No its long, and winding, and up and down, you change meds, and all the while, you LOOK fine! I feel like people think I am too fragile, doctors kept telling me to get on anti depressants, because I guess I looked like a bored unsatisfied stay at home mom. And I kept telling them no-something is wrong!! How much time was wasted on that stupidity.

Now we just live day by day, sometimes hour by hour. What a crappy way to teach mindfulness and gratitude! Just take it easy on yourself today, and look at your son, smell his skin, hold his hand, get lost in the glory of him, if just for a while so you don't let lyme win every time. In spite of this disease trying to make life all about it, remind lyme, "You are not my life. My son is my life, my husband is my life, I am my life."

Peace be with you today, and for the days to come,
Karina
Posted 11/22/2016 7:21 PM (GMT 0)
Oh goodness, now I full out sobbing.

Thank you Peteza and Karina,
You are so comforting. Peteza, I have printed out your protocol and wish I could take so much - you really can down those herbs. ALL of those herbs 3x a day. I can only take Stephania 2x a day and elue 1x a day and I have been doing them for months now. I'm going warrior beginning Monday. Love the "have to listen to the doctor!" LOL.

Karina,

Sorry you are going through this. The tease of the good days and then the relapse. I find that cruel, but perhaps a vision of what will be. I laughed so hard at "what a crappy way to learn gratitude and being in the moment." I totally agree and I already think I pretty much got those things. I am done being tested by God. I have had so many tests, and many of them would crush a weaker person, however, Lyme may be the one that breaks me. It won't though. I'll summon my strength, but it takes all that we have. I worry about my son and it's not just healing his lyme, he isn't growing (because of lyme) so there is THAT worry and he has no friends because he's small and having a terrible year - so there is THAT worry. I have spent all day packing up for the long weekend and my husband doesn't understand why I'm too tired to just 'sit int the car.' Feeling overwhelmed but filled with gratitude for this board, these postings, and that tomorrow will be a much better day - or even later today. Love the suggestion to write a letter on a good day. That is a beautiful idea. Thank you.

I wish you all more feel-good beautiful days than feeling bad days :) That's my Thanksgiving wish for you all.
xo
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