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Post ABX, worse off, new "condition" of liver issues

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Posted 12/1/2016 7:29 PM (GMT 0)
I did ABX for 6 months. Total failure. Totally fell on my face and had to quit. Super bad liver enzyme elevation.

Glutathione brought the liver enzymes down. But I am "stuck" in a new condition that I did not have before. I need $150 glutathione IV's every 2 weeks or else enzymes start going up and I feel very bad. I cannot tolerate most supplements that I used to take, bearing in mind that supplements alone have a liver "load".

I have had high IGG's on EBV, Cytomeg., Strep, coxsackie, and several others. Plus Lyme.

In short, I have been off ABX for over 1 year, and I am stuck in some downward spiral of feeling worse. Don't know what to do. Yes, I am "that guy", that the doctor says "I've never seen that before". And he is an LLMD too. Glutathione IV's are my only lifeline and my only way to tread water and get up in the morning everyday. Its getting expensive.

I thought it was the bad gut issues I created from ABX, but I cleaned a lot of that up with a good diet and probiotics, and no improvement at all.
Posted 12/1/2016 8:32 PM (GMT 0)
Hello im sorry to hear about ur situation, maybe you should seek out another llmd, im pretty new to all this but have been doing alot of research antibiotics are soo expensive i feel ur pain. I also listen to dr. Ross, im not promoting in any shape or form he has alot of good advice has a good web site he offers online consults. Maybe you have already looked in to it. There is a topic on his web about if treatment fails what to do. Hopes thish helps some.
Posted 12/1/2016 8:34 PM (GMT 0)
I'm sorry Lymeassassin - I don't have any advice to offer you.


But, I wanted to tell you that my liver enzymes didn't follow a predictable pattern.

I was on lyme abx for about 6 months when my liver enzymes were slowly climbing after a few months.
I stopped abx for 2 1/2 months to allow them to come down.
They slowly started dropping down...then when they were in range, I started back on abx...this time adding in Rifampin for bart after a month.

My LLND was concerned that they would start to rise again....but the opposite happened - they continued to drop and have stayed in range ever since (over a year now)

I think the infections themselves can mess with the liver - causing high enzymes.
Posted 12/1/2016 8:38 PM (GMT 0)
lymeassassin,

I am very sorry to hear of your terrible situation. Your situation isn't anything new to many members here on the forum. My daughter was in a similar situation, and we were able to successfully deal with it. I developed a philosophical approach that was very helpful and I want to share it.

I first want to ask a few diagnostic questions.

1) Are you detoxing?
2) What type of detoxing?

The reality is that the liver carries a large burden of the body's elimination of toxins. Your liver has already been assaulted for a long time by being forced to process the pathogenic biotoxins as well as the ABX. It's no longer able to synthesize glutathione in sufficient quantities to protect itself and the rest of the body. My approach will lower overall body burden of biotoxins, and allow the liver to recover, thus possibly promoting the increased natural production of glutathione by the liver.

The most important thing is to discontinue the practice of dragging your bodies toxins through the liver. Instead, I discovered that it is very helpful to share the toxin elimination burden with other toxin elimination channels. Yes, by all means support the liver with things such as milk thistle, and possibly do a liver flush, but you want to take the burden off of the liver. Continue glutathione IV as well.

There are several extremely effective detox methods such as saunas, FIR saunas, biomats, ionic foot detox, coffee enemas, warm water enemas, epsom salt and H2O2 bath, colonics, bentanite clay and psyllium seed to cleanse the colon, etc.

The solution to your problem is clear and simple in my opinion.... that is, unless the liver is permanently beyond the point of recovery. However that is extremely unlikely, as the liver is very resilient, and will recover if given a reasonable chance. If your detoxification efforts consists entirely of the oral route, then your detoxification strategy is faulty, since you are dragging most of your toxins through your liver.

Let's construct an effective toxin elimination strategy for you!

Don

Post Edited (Heathersdad) : 12/1/2016 2:38:27 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/1/2016 8:41 PM (GMT 0)
Have you tried any liver protective herbs like milk thistle. I'm trying to think what could have caused this and i'm at a loss. I have had some very strange reactions in my liver area but thankfully i did not push through them and recovered. How long have you been off the abx? Every time i've treated i got worse but eventually it cleared up with abstinence

Edit: i will say though i honestly feel the abx heavy approach is not right for most people. I won't say it never works but my gut feeling is that lyme disease for many of us is just the bug that broke the camels back. Not any sort of super pathogen that can only be eradicated with long term abx. When i got pains i saw a new LLND/LLLAc and we've been looking into mold issues and finding some things in my home that are problematic. So if glutathione is helping you, maybe it's a sign you're not producing enough for the load you're taking. Maybe that load is coming from places other than lyme that need to be addressed before you can safely and effectively treat the lyme. I'm still waiting to remedy my mold problem so i haven't tried to treat again, but just a thought. Also when i first got sick i was sick about a month before i jumped into my parents swimming pool to which i immediately developed neuropathy. Made no connection. Then 7 months later after stabilizing i got in the pool again and instantly relapsed. So keeping in mind environment as well. Whatever was there didn't cause my problems because i was already having chest pains, but it certainly added to my pathogen load and is still active inside my body from what it appears.

Edit 2: Also it might be helpful to mention which antibiotics you took. I'm not going to be the person to help you with that, but i wonder if there was any direct toxicity. Others might know better. I've avoided abx completely

Post Edited (Psilociraptor) : 12/1/2016 1:51:01 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/1/2016 8:54 PM (GMT 0)
Hi lymeassassin,, Heather's Dad makes some good valid points. The only thing that I would add is to visit a Hepatologist to ensure that you are getting the best possible care for your liver. A Hepatologist can do an MRI of your liver to check for damage, inflammation, and possible blockage that could contribute to the elevated enzymes. Elevated liver enzymes can be tolerated to some extent as long as they are managed while under treatment.

Please know that Milk Thistle has elevated enzymes as one of its side effects for a small number of users. Make sure you are not one of those people.
Posted 12/1/2016 8:59 PM (GMT 0)
So sorry you are going through this. I've read that anti-biotics don't work for everyone, and, some leading in the field think anti-biotics alone may not be enough. Herbal approach is always an option.

A bottle of cats claw at the local health food store to jump start and order some japanese Knotweed from this source (suggested by Buhner) greendragonbotanicals.com/products/medicines/japanese-knotweed.html.

Traveler uses Chronic tonic and there is a whole thread for that.

I benefited a lot from Stephen Buhner's books as well as Horowitz's on lyme. His new one is coming out soon. www.cangetbetter.com

Above all else, don't despair.

Keep working it and asking questions. I am confident you can sort this out!

This puzzle takes some experimenting!
Posted 12/1/2016 9:12 PM (GMT 0)
Bart or BLO alone can elevate liver enzymes:

http://www.gordonmedical.com/unravelling-complex-chronic-illness/bartonella-like-organisms-blo-consideration-signs-and-symptoms/

I only had to stop ABX protocol once while treating Bart for the first time many years ago. Dandelion Root and Licorice are also good for the liver. Sundown Naturals brand has all the above plus Fennel. Worth a look.
Posted 12/1/2016 9:50 PM (GMT 0)
Lymeassassin,

I don't have a lot to offer but just want to send some support and hugs to you.

Heather's Dad and others gave some great advice. Also you are never the only one!

Please keep us posted with how you are healing.
Posted 12/1/2016 10:43 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks to all and Heather's Dad. I have tried milk thistle, it seems to contribute to the build up effect of the "load" that is on my liver. I don't take it anymore.

I currently do IR Sauna about every other day for 30 or 40 minutes. I am trying to use other detox pathways besides liver. I don't do any other forms of "detox". There is a good supplement program that I used to do, but now it is just too much stuff. As I had mentioned even supps now have to be limited otherwise they contribute to the problem. Weird that supps for detox of liver, wind up stressing out liver? That is what happens.

Heathers Dad I have not tried the detox foot baths. I know I need other channels of detox I am willing to try it. But I am doing the IR sauna.
Posted 12/2/2016 12:27 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks for interacting with the things that have been said so far in this thread. Milk Thistle can actually make adverse symptoms of the liver worse for some people.

I also agree that too many supplements can actually make things worse for the targeted areas of the body.

Other suggestions are to eat non-GMO, organic, and detoxing foods as much as possible.

I would also try to specifically detox the liver with coffee enemas. I would start with a weaker coffee concentration and work up to a stronger coffee over time. There is a type of coffee that is specifically used for coffee enemas. There are chemical constituents in the coffee that stimulates liver detoxification. I would do a coffee enema a few times a week. Here is a link to an article that describes it:

https://metabolichealing.com/hepatic-portal-vein-dilation-the-remarkable-benefits-of-coffee-enemas/

Drink pure water, or water with a little fresh squeezed lemon juice. Various forms of colon cleansing will help liver congestion in the long run.

Unfortunately even some of the better LLMD/s are not well versed in the art of detoxification. They may just prescribe a prescription oral detoxifier and that is all.

I highly doubt that your "condition" actually constitutes a liver condition any different than what many others have experienced. On the other hand, I am not a physician. Perhaps it would be best to enlist the services of a liver specialist to rule out anything unknown at this time.

Don
Posted 12/2/2016 2:37 AM (GMT 0)
I agree with tick 666....its bart ...also make sure you dont have flukes ...dr k says alinia can chase all them into the safe zone of the liver ...dr m has some interesting utoobs ..he pushes past elevated enzymes in bart tx ...

consider rife and bvt ...you still have options ...milk thisle can seal infection in the liver ...
Posted 12/2/2016 2:57 AM (GMT 0)

lymeassassin said...
I don't do any other forms of "detox".

Heathers Dad I have not tried the detox foot baths. I know I need other channels of detox I am willing to try it.

My goodness, my fellow lymie. Detoxing is more than half the battle when it comes to lyme.

Epsom foot baths is a good choice for "quicker" detox affect. When I feel weird and off with that lyme "hangover" feeling, I take the foot bath an within an hour it's like a funk is lifted. It's like my body (and probably my liver) says "ahh, yes. thanks for the help".

You should visit the "new to lyme" thread for all other detoxing methods.

Detoxing is not optional.

Oh also, how is your B12 levels? Optimal b12 levels aid the liver. There's a connection there.
Posted 12/2/2016 3:42 AM (GMT 0)

bluelyme said...
I agree with tick 666....its bart ...also make sure you dont have flukes ...dr k says alinia can chase all them into the safe zone of the liver ...dr m has some interesting utoobs ..he pushes past elevated enzymes in bart tx ...

consider rife and bvt ...you still have options ...milk thisle can seal infection in the liver ...


You mentioned Dr. M - are you talking about the bart guru?
Posted 12/2/2016 4:05 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks again for the replies.

I have not been tested for Bart, i will get testing done with the IGenex panel for coinfections.

Please recommend a brand name and model for a good foot bath device. Several on here mentioned it works for them, when I looked into those, I got confused there is lots of stuff and some of it sounds like a gimmick, can't tell what is good what isnt.

I should revisit coffee enemas. I did those before, I really didnt like doing that. made a mess on my bathroom floor. I dont retain it well.
Posted 12/2/2016 7:28 AM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...

bluelyme said...
I agree with tick 666....its bart ...also make sure you dont have flukes ...dr k says alinia can chase all them into the safe zone of the liver ...dr m has some interesting utoobs ..he pushes past elevated enzymes in bart tx ...

consider rife and bvt ...you still have options ...milk thisle can seal infection in the liver ...


You mentioned Dr. M - are you talking about the bart guru?

yes thanks to u girlie for pointing those to me ..

coffe enema help make more glitithion..it could be the hepatic portal duct is clogged or obstructed by say harden bile or ascaris ..
nac and ala have helped me too...gunna do gb flush soon ...if you have no hcl bile wjll not be triggered ...

also i highly recommend the dna connexions test 3 types of bart .no blood no doc needed ..very accurate
Posted 12/2/2016 1:13 PM (GMT 0)
Lymeassassin,

Are you in the NY area by chance? I have a great acupuncturist/colonic therapy person. She is amazing.

You can email me if you are, and want details.
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