It needs to be said. You are being lied to.

I agree that the doctors don't know how to deal with "Lyme Disease," but I feel that its not just parasites, but a combo of other infections that cause this disease. Viral, fungal, bacterial and of course parasitic. I also feel that certain emotional triggers can have an impact on one's body. Stress is a silent killer and once our bodies get too overloaded with it, it can impact the immune system from effectively controlling these infections. Result is of course chaos on our system. Wish I had known all of this before, but of course none of this is really taught in school. I can pinpoint the times where I became really symptomatic, and those were probably some of the most stressful points in my life.

bdavis said...

ChickenArise said...

Ivermectin is less effective against pinworm and other nematodes that tend to migrate to subcutaneous areas and muscle tissue.

First of all, thanks for the informative posts! Second, do you know what is effective against nematodes that get into muscle and tendons? My primary and most intense symptom is migratory tendonitis. It truly feels like there is some kind of parasite moving around to different tendons and devouring them. What can reach parasites in low blood flow areas such as tendons and kick the nematodes out?

Can I ask what abx and other medicines you are on before I venture a guess. Try to pay attention if the movement feeling is a true migration or it your nerves are firing off in the same places as I had damaged nerves that felt like bugs stinging and crawling but certain nerves were always short circuiting and these were free of bugs (most of the time) so then I was able to at least figure out that my mind was playing tricks on me.

What is your Dx and is it self or clinical? I want to be certain its not mycotoxins causing you pain. , please tell me your story , how did it all start, symptoms, where you are today better or worse and why do you think, so I may better help.

Take note of every little detail and mark the stings to see if they repeat. Stand, sit, and see what you can eat, drink, or do that mitigates it. Do the migrators leave marks or channels in their wake? Is it constant migration or is the activity is more frequent at a certain hour of the day or night? Any other places feel something similar?

If you don't already have a journal or Word doc where you keep a symptoms, dosage, observations diary I suggest that you do. Mine is over two years old and this comes in handy the longer you have a disease. Doctors will ask and you may see the big picture upon collecting enough data. There will be less chance of overlooking important things.

I will be trying Mebendazole when it gets here next as that should hit what you are describing but It is better to do four cycles of Ivermectin first. Why would you use a similar drug like Moxi?

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 12/1/2016 10:16:20 PM (GMT-7)

ChickenArise said...

bdavis said...

ChickenArise said...

Ivermectin is less effective against pinworm and other nematodes that tend to migrate to subcutaneous areas and muscle tissue.

First of all, thanks for the informative posts! Second, do you know what is effective against nematodes that get into muscle and tendons? My primary and most intense symptom is migratory tendonitis. It truly feels like there is some kind of parasite moving around to different tendons and devouring them. What can reach parasites in low blood flow areas such as tendons and kick the nematodes out?

Can I ask what abx and other medicines you are on before I venture a guess. Try to pay attention if the movement feeling is a true migration or it your nerves are firing off in the same places as I had damaged nerves that felt like bugs stinging and crawling but certain nerves were always short circuiting and these were free of bugs (most of the time) so then I was able to at least figure out that my mind was playing tricks on me.

What is your Dx and is it self or clinical? I want to be certain its not mycotoxins causing you pain. , please tell me your story , how did it all start, symptoms, where you are today better or worse and why do you think, so I may better help.

Take note of every little detail and mark the stings to see if they repeat. Stand, sit, and see what you can eat, drink, or do that mitigates it. Do the migrators leave marks or channels in their wake? Is it constant migration or is the activity is more frequent at a certain hour of the day or night? Any other places feel something similar?

If you don't already have a journal or Word doc where you keep a symptoms, dosage, observations diary I suggest that you do. Mine is over two years old and this comes in handy the longer you have a disease. Doctors will ask and you may see the big picture upon collecting enough data. There will be less chance of overlooking important things.

I will be trying Mebendazole when it gets here next as that should hit what you are describing but It is better to do four cycles of Ivermectin first. Why would you use a similar drug like Moxi?

Thanks for getting back to me!

Well, I am on no drugs currently. This migratory tendonitis has been happening 2 years now. I fell out of my barn and sprained ankle and a few days later my knee got swollen and sore for no apparent reason, then got better in 3 days. Then my shoulder did the same. This happens in the tendon, usually near where it attaches to bone. It has hit almost every tendon in my body, even ones in face. So it definitely feels like my body's inflammatory response is chasing something around. Most recently, my tricep tendon flared up above the elbow, it got sore puffy and hot, and my elbow lost range of motion. After 2 days of this, it moved to BELOW my elbow in a forearm tendon. Another time my achilles tendon flared up. Then it moved from there to the lateral tendon in my ankle. from there it went to the medial tendon in my ankle, then back to achilles. Then it moved higher up the achilles, and a cyst formed about the size of a marble. Then in a week or so it left. Another time a small tendon in my cheek inflamed, and a few days later it went into my jaw and made my back molar sore. And this is how it has been for me for 2 years. It wakes me up at night with excruciating pain. And it always is worse from when the sun goes down until the sun rises again. Daylight makes it better even if I'm inside and not literally in the sun.

I have not found anything that really make it better. Just have to ride it out. No, there are no marks left that I can see after the pain migrates.

I also have muscle twitches all the time. Right now as I type a big muscle in my right glute is jumping. Sometimes the same muscle will twitch for weeks, then it will stop and start in a new area.

I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis based on the RF and anti-CCP blood positives, but personally I think the diagnosis is bogus. Then, I had 2 lyme WBs and both has lyme specific antibodies (band 23) in chronic and acute ABs. But both were officially CDC negative. I've been doing Buhner herbs for 6 months and it hasn't helped.

I had dairy goats at the time when I got these symptoms, and had seen worms come out of them in the past. Was drinking their milk raw. I was also deer hunting and ate some raw deer meat a few months or so before symptoms. Also broke out in huge herpes looking blisters all over chest while leaning on an oak tree using a chainsaw, this happened 2 months before symptoms. Still don't know what caused this but it was very unusual and I always wonder if it had something to do with my migrating tendon problem. Did a parasite crawl though my skin where it was rubbing against the tree, causing the blisters? They started in one spot, and I watched them spread all over my torso and arms. The tree did have a squirrels all over it and the squirrels have been coming down with these weird cyst lumps all over them.

The house we are in now we have had for 5 years. There was black mold when we bought it but we removed it. It grew back in bathroom. We scraped walls and removed it. Leak in skylight caused more mold but I fixed leak. Closet in master bedroom has mold smell but I don't go in there anymore. I live in a humid area of South Carolina so mold is always around... I've been keeping windows open whenever possible to get fresh air circulating, but it hasn't made a difference in how I feel. Before I moved out to the country 5 years ago I lived in the suburbs and was completely fine. Something in this darn place has made me sick, be it lyme or mold or parasites... should have never moved to the country.

Also, immune system is shot now. Have had shingles 11 times in the past 2 years since all this started!!! Never once had it before. Also my 2.5 year old son who stated out as a healthy baby is now diagnosed autistic. Related? I don't know but I am suspicious that there is a common thread between he and I.

Thanks for taking the time to read. You are a good one for trying to help!

Apparently the migratory tendon and muscle pains are very common to Lyme and occurs in early stages. "Musculoskeletal manifestations of Lyme disease are very common. During early infection, migratory arthralgias and pain in bursae, tendon, muscle, or bone occur in the majority of patients. Weeks to months later, frank arthritis, most commonly mono- or oligoarticular and involving large joints (most commonly knees, but also shoulders, ankles, elbows, and other sites), may develop. Lyme arthritis is one manifestation of persistent or late Lyme disease (previously termed state 3)."

We are battling the contaminated from mold home issue also. So far a fogger and Concrobium Mold Control spray and installing an exhaust fan have helped keep the mold at bay for the most part but I am concerned about the potential of lasting contamination myself. We have ozonated the house several times and run a dehumidifier non stop.

We have on order, a vaporizer with bee propolis cartridges as Dr. Klinghardt is a proponent of this to clean up the environment indoors. The other thing some have tried which may be cheaper is to cold diffuse colloidal silver into the room. If we find something works particularly well I will post info on it. If not we may be forced to move.

Raw deer meat is the most probable culprit that caught my eye so I looked it up and found this. The tree was likely an allergic reaction to a plant oil.

10 Weird Parasites that Live Inside Deer
/www.qdma.com/10-weird-parasites-live-inside-deer/

The article suggest none of these parasites are harmful to humans if you believe that.

Another university article recommends against consuming fresh deer.
www.extension.umn.edu/food/food-safety/preserving/meat-fish/parasites-and-wild-game-venison/

If it were me I would do 4 cycles of Ivermectin followed by 3 Mebendazole 100mg 2x day. This is what I am working on now as I just completed my 2nd cycle Ivermectin.

The safety and side effects profile on this seems a bit safer than Moxi so I would learn towards Ivermectin unless I couldn't get it. [url]

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 12/2/2016 11:05:57 AM (GMT-7)

Agreeing with Girlie on this - I had muscle pains and tremors, spasms, cramping for 40 years.

trumpet123 said...
I thought people said you can't repair or patch up a significant mold problem and that the only solution is to leave the house. the mold gets in your clothes. lisa petrison is a person who has been on many lyme and cfs forums advising on where to live and how to get mold out of your life. To get her life back completely she had to leave everything behind. Once out of that environment she detoxed big time and finally found recovery. She made a map of the US (its on the web somewhere) showing where the moldiest places to live are. She was able to drive into a town and pick up on mold issues based on her symptoms. Good luck

Yeah one day I will have to get the house tested to see how bad the problem is. I would hate to have to leave but I see how sometimes that is the only option.

bdavis said...
......

I am going to try the ivermectin and the mebendazole as you suggested. By 4 cycles of ivermectin, do you mean 4 weeks, taken once a week? And what kind of doses? Thanks again.

No problem but just so we are clear I cannot recommend anything. If it were me:

I would check here https://www.drugs.com/dosage/ivermectin.html

Although it appears relatively safe and Ive found dosing to be very forgiving I tested for allergy by using a small .2 g smidge on "Day 0".

I then checked my weight at approximately 170 lbs. On Day 1 I ended up using 15mg. All other ON days I used approximately 24mg (slightly higher than recommended for my weight). I divided the 24mg into 3 or 4 doses and took these sandwiched between saltine pieces about 5-6 hours apart. I placed them on my tongue and saturated them with grape juice held in my mouth for 30 seconds in order to soften the cracker. I metered dose using a gram scale, and tare the cracker weight. I wished to achieve some level of accuracy, but I wasn't too concerned about being precise. I recorded notes on weight and dosing times so I wouldn't forget.

This was based on info found here
/www.drugs.com/dosage/ivermectin.html

I then checked the link labeled interactions so I would know there are no serious contraindications with anything I am currently taking. I would cease all use of alcohol or at least during my first 4 days on and first 4 days off since it has a long half life.

My first cycle consisted of 4 days on then 10 days off. I just completed my second cycle of 3 days on and will follow it with 10 days off. Then my third cycle will consist of 2 days on and 10 days off. My fourth and final cycle will be one or 2 days on. Then I will rest the body for two weeks.

Days off are to allow unhatched and unaffected eggs to hatch and become treatable and so not too much Iver builds up in me. Four cycles to clear out all that can be cleared out by Iver.

Iver will continue to work on the first 4 days off. Iver has a long half life and is somewhat cumulative but safe when used properly.

When I receive the Mebendazole I will look it up at the same site and learn all that I can about side effects, etc.

I will see what the most common dosage is (which is 100mg twice a day for 3 days). I will stick to this for a first cycle. I wish to know how my body reacts or before repeating any lengthier cycles in the future and only lengthier if I feel its needed.

I will determine the length of any future cycles by looking under DOSING for the next level of parasite listed which requires a longer than 3 days Tx. I will not attempt any extreme dosing for unlikely parasites requiring large or lengthy treatments.

Also as recommended for Filariasis I will repeat one dose in 2 weeks.

Before dosing I will test a smidge or very small fraction for an allergic reaction on Day 0.

I will note any allergic reactions which will be met with induced vomiting if this is recommended under overdose instructions for the respectable drug at the link.

Otherwise Activated Charcoal will be used or poison control called for assistance or all of the above.

Being as Safe as I can possibly be is still a priority.

I will allow my body a couple weeks rest after any cycle but may bounce back and forth between the two based on my notes and determined needs.

If I do mebendazole a second time I may add DEC after of course testing for allergy.

Let me know how it goes. My contact is in my profile.

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 12/4/2016 10:07:58 AM (GMT-7)

bdavis said...

ChickenArise said...

I then checked my weight at approximately 170 lbs. On Day 1 I ended up using 15mg. All other ON days I used approximately 24mg (slightly higher than recommended for my weight). I divided the 24mg into 3 or 4 doses and took these sandwiched between saltine pieces about 5-6 hours apart.

ChickenArise, what is the rationale for dosing at higher than 200mcg/kg?

I got my DuraMectin and am starting tonight. Fingers crossed. I have tried so much and something has to work! Shoulder and knee are aching bad right now.

I had read that Klinghardt (famous lyme doctor in Seattle) was using 48mg dosing. This was copied from another forum

other forum said...

The following represents only PART of Dr. K.’s protocol. Other herbs and therapies comprise the complete protocol. They can be found in the “A Deep Look Beyond Lyme” in the note book. That information is from 2011 and is being updated as Dr. K and other physicians learn more.

The following drugs are used for a year in rotation to kill parasites.

1. Biltricide 600 mg - twice daily (q. 12 hours) for two days
Absorption increases most when taken with a high carb meal. A high fat meal increases it almost as much. Take with grapefruit juice to increase absorption also.

2. Ivermectin 12 mg - one 12 mg (or four 3 mg) tablet(s) four times per day for fourteen days (take at the same time as Pyrantel Pamoate) on an EMPTY stomach.
Pyrantel pamoate (liquid – 4 teaspoons) 1000 mg per day at bedtime for fourteen days.

3. Albenza 400 mg - Two 200 mg tablets twice per day for fourteen days (after completing fourteen days on Ivermectin and Pyrantel). Take with food. (every 12 hours)

4. Alinia 1000 mg - Two 500 mg tablets twice per day for fourteen days (after completing Albenza) every 12 hours

(A's addition from Dr. Clark’s Book - Levimasole 100 mg (3 times/day) before meals)

THEN 2 HERBS:

5. Mimosa Pudica (Biopure) - ½ teaspoon 2x/day for fourteen days mixed drink, milk or juice

6. Arteminisin (Biopure) - 200mgs 2x/day for fourteen days.
ALWAYS take with 4 oz. of grapefruit juice 30 minutes before meals.


REPEAT ENTIRE SEQUENCE 4 TIMES.

It just ended up being that way for me as metering was a bit challenging. Sometimes a little more than I intended ended up on the cracker and I didnt want to waste any. My goal was to get a dose every 6 hours. Since I was tolerating it well and I was still under the Klinghardt dose I figured dosing was a bit forgiving.
Also my paste also contained Biltricide (Praziquantel). I couldnt achieve the recommended dosing of this without going too high for my taste on the Ivermectin, but I was able to achieve a little over half.
The dosing and various recommended durations (as high as 17days for each) floating around the internet seemed awful high to me.
I might do durations this long one day if needed but it is wiser to take it slow.
I know we all want to get rid of what ails us yesterday, but you have to be cautious and safe. The last thing you want to do is herx so badly that you stop a valuable treatment because you blame side effects. At the same time you have to pay close attention to major side effects as well as rare ones. I also want to trust my instincts.
Also other protocols recommend Albendazole. I have my own reasons for using the better tolerated Mebendazole. I hope this helps.

PS a relative safety study on combination antihelmintics :
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2217668/

PPS also at the dose I used I was able to dislodge something that was latching onto my intestinal wall causing me intermittent left flank pain for months.
I only realized it was a worm when I repeatedly poked on my side right where the pain was. Then I felt it let go and scratched me a bit on its way down. This was on the 2nd day OFF (day6).
I don't think it would have dislodged with a lower dose as I think it was only weakened and my push was needed.
When it let go I added a partial dose just to make sure it stayed weakened until I could pass it. This is what I mean about trusting instincts. I used senna laxatives concurrently.
Ive read somewhere that double dose is needed for tapeworm. Maybe this is why Klinghardt uses 48mg but I do not know. If flank pain were to return I might up the dose a bit on a future repeat cycle.

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 12/10/2016 6:32:59 AM (GMT-7)

How are you detoxing? how are you assuring good bowel movements? How are you "mopping up" toxins? I am no expert, just interjecting logic. Years ago I came down with Lyme/Babesia without having a name for it. It was muscle tested and put on a complex regimen of herbs. As it turned out, most of the herbs are in parasite protocols, as well as fibers and intestinal stimulants. I found out later what I had was a strong onset of Babesia, that the herbs were effective, and over time I've learned why they worked. The herbalist was adamant about the use of intestinal stimulants and fiber powders along with DE.

Bdavis - With symptoms starting while drinking raw goat milk m& eating raw meat I would consider looking into Brucella.

I have often wondered if I possibly picked something up making homemade kefir. My symptoms started when I did this. I can't remember if I used raw milk. I test positive IGM for Brucella - trying to still figure out if it is a true positive or false positive.

How about I just do that for you all?

Link to part 2: www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3756533

Please use the new thread to continue this conversation.

ChickenArise: I'm certainly not disagreeing that greed is a driving force in the direction of R&D in the pharmaceutical industry, though I don't necessarily follow that it is all a big conspiracy; if for no other reason that a conspiracy that large would fall apart on it's own. I do believe that much of medicine is driven by internal and personality politics and that focuses it inward more than outward. DO's are much more receptive to alternative therapies than MD's. I do not disparage MD's in their concern, diligence or compassion. I do question the style of education that they receive in this country. No single brain can contain, nor has the time to absorb all of the knowledge necessary to treat everything. But too many MD's, especially IDS docs, only look at what they already know without accepting that what they know now is less than what they have to learn. The idea of "consensus" rather than "skeptic" is rampant in many forms of scientific pursuit. Too many accepted the notion in the '90s that infectious disease will simply disappear with a few more antibiotics. The bigger problem is that there are far more diseases than they have cataloged, much less found antibiotics that will stop them. Lyme is bB. But there are far more versions of Borrelia than that. Likely far more within each patient. Between needing to see too many patients per day, too much government inflicted recording, insufficient time to stay current in their specialty and "leaders" in their field joining with associations and government agencies that are more interested in their own fiefdom rather than treating patients, it is amazing that anyone gets cured of anything.

Hey everyone - Please post in the Part 2 thread - Traveller posted the link a few posts ago.

This one is getting too long.