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no herx = no lyme?

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Posted 12/8/2016 8:52 PM (GMT 0)
Hi,

I'm taking Flagyl and Ampicillin for a gut infection. I get GI-related die-off symptoms (foul-smelling stools, stomach gurgling etc.) and depression/anxiety, but have no had any classic 'herx' symptoms, such as fever. Would this confirm that I don't have Lyme or co?
Posted 12/8/2016 8:58 PM (GMT 0)
No. Not necessarily. I think it's a mistake to assume you have to have herxing of the painful or sick kind to believe you're infected, or that you're killing anything.

You need some good probiotic to fix your tummy, though.

The depression and anxiety could be your way of herxing! Fever isn't a given. Fever shows your body's attempt at getting rid of the invasion. If it's not, then it doesn't know it's there at the moment.

Flagyl is a cyst buster. Is this a stage in your abx protocol for lyme?

What were your initial symptoms, and were you ever tested?
Posted 12/8/2016 9:02 PM (GMT 0)
I see that Traveler already suggested that you need to be on probiotics throughout treatment. Not after you're through.

Have you started taking them?

The information you're getting here is often an accumulation of 100's if not many more experiences, as likely no one Dr., even an LLMD, will cover everthing involved in this war we wage.

We pretty much have to learn from this, or go through the worst to learn for ourselves, unfortunately.
Posted 12/8/2016 9:10 PM (GMT 0)
I agree with julymorning - the depression/anxiety could be your herx.
Especially since Flagyl is an antibiotic used for these infections.

I've never had a fever...ever. my herxes are mostly pain, sweating, shivers, sometimes anxiety.
Posted 12/8/2016 9:36 PM (GMT 0)
Outscruff if you need a confirmation do the dna connexions test ..or verify via microscopy ..

Lyme is better than ..."we dont know what eating your nerves (ms ) ,we dont know whats eating your neurons (als ) we dont know what causing your body wide pain syndrome (fibromyalgia) we dont know what messing your gut (ibs ₩we dont know what in every system making your immune sx wonky (lupus hashimoots vasculitis ,autoimmune etc) we dont know why you have the shakes at mid age (early parkinsons)!?" If its not borrielia its bartonella if it not that its mycoplasma ...if not that what til hpv or ebv gets ya but its a pathogen i bet the world on it !
Posted 12/8/2016 10:40 PM (GMT 0)
Well my first question is do you have reason to believe you have lyme? Have you tested positive on a test? Do you have a list of lyme related symptoms.

If you answered yes to either one of those questions, then no you can't use a lack of herxing as a credible diagnostic tool to completely rule out lyme.

Also you having GI issues because of the ABX. Are you protecting your gut while you are on ABX. If not, please do so.

ABX doesn't have to create such bad GI symptoms if you can help it.
Posted 12/8/2016 11:19 PM (GMT 0)
I treated lyme and did not herx.
Posted 12/8/2016 11:33 PM (GMT 0)
Ha. Fever....

I havent had fever in 5 years. Got really sick many times, flu like symtoms, runny nose, cough, feverish etc... But real fever, on the thermometer? No.

Only recently after 2yrs of treatment ive got a good old fever , with chills and real temperature hike. It felt good to see i still have an immune system left.

No, if u are really sick u dont get fever, u dont even respond to flu vaccination, u do not develop immunity

http://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1004976

Post Edited (mpost) : 12/8/2016 4:36:39 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/9/2016 11:44 AM (GMT 0)
There are no "classic herx symptoms" because a herx is defined as a worsening of current symptoms or new symptoms. So they can be just as varied as any Lyme patient's symptoms can be - or new symptoms!

I don't get any rashes appear unless I'm herxing, and even then it's rare. This does not mean I don't have the infections, only that the rashes don't appear on me so much. I do have other skin symptoms though.

And, as has been pointed out, we need to be careful to not assume we should herx when treatment is effective. That's not the case, as only those that have too many toxins in their body (due to having a very high load of toxins, not detoxing or having gene mutations that aren't addressed yet) will herx. Some, like PeteZa, never experience a herx, yet experience healing.
Posted 12/9/2016 2:11 PM (GMT 0)
Outscruff,

Sorry you are going through this.

It sounds like a herx to me. Brain-gut have very strong connection. It is where all of our serotonin (feel good hormones reside). My husband has GI/neuro lyme and I have noticed mild depression/anxiety that I know isn't the real him.

Be sure to protect your gut. He was given VSL 3 probiotic (this is given to IBS/Chrohns patients) not sure what type of GI issues you have.

Have you changed your diet? That helps tremendously.

Keep us posted - feel better.
Posted 12/9/2016 9:17 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Outscruff,

I didn't have herx symptoms very much at all with my treatment this summer, but now that my lyme treatment is over my symptoms are pretty much gone. My doctor said that that alone confirmed to him that it was lyme. I'm inclined to agree.

Everyone is different. Try to keep your chin up.
Posted 12/9/2016 9:21 PM (GMT 0)
I am watching my husband now treat lyme and I warned him about taking too many drops and herxing. He is cautious but dang if he doesn't detox more than I ever did!!!!

I don't anticipate him herxing. He is detoxing all day long!!!
Posted 12/9/2016 9:25 PM (GMT 0)
Running out but tell us what he's doing. Would love to hear. The two of you are an herb-chugging, detoxing power couple!

Keep up the good training!
Posted 12/9/2016 9:28 PM (GMT 0)
LLMD never warned me about MTHFR or any gene mutations and how it makes Lyme so much harder to get through......looking back I kind of wish he did.....after I added it to the blood test.

Take this into your own hands,everyones body is different and some people don't feel the full punishment Lyme can unleash.



r
Posted 2/11/2017 11:27 AM (GMT 0)
I'm happy to read that you can be healing not feeling herx cool
I started my treatment yesterday morning (daily: 2 caps Lumbro ; 5g NAC ; 200mg Doxy), and haven't felt any difference. Actually, I have always felt flu-like symptoms, brain fog, etc... but the treatment isn't worsening those symptoms rolleyes
Posted 2/11/2017 1:00 PM (GMT 0)
my 6 month of terrible gas caused by parasite in just single pill of ivermectin with minor eatching as herx
Posted 2/11/2017 2:41 PM (GMT 0)

calande said...
I'm happy to read that you can be healing not feeling herx cool
I started my treatment yesterday morning (daily: 2 caps Lumbro ; 5g NAC ; 200mg Doxy), and haven't felt any difference. Actually, I have always felt flu-like symptoms, brain fog, etc... but the treatment isn't worsening those symptoms rolleyes

It can take a while for herxing to begin too - some don't herx until their 3rd, 4th, or even 6th month.

200 mgs of Doxy a day isn't a high dose at all, and you will need more than that to help these infections, and will have to switch to another abx fairly soon, as Doxy is known to create more round body forms of the bacteria (also called cyst form sometimes).
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