Those on Buhner protocol or herbs, how long before improvement?

It's really hard to say when a person will start to feel improvements because there are so many different things that are usually going on in a person's body.

For me, I started feeling *some* improvements (very, very minor) after the first two months - but that was after a massive herx as well.

Others won't feel improvements for 6 months. Sometimes this is because they aren't detoxing enough, or because they aren't going after their 'top' infection, or they have undiagnosed mold issues, or candida issues or other things that need attention.

If you live in a state where medical marijuana is legal, I would suggest giving that a try for pain. There are different strains and types for different symptom relief.

There is another very recent thing that some Lyme patients are having good success with, kratom. I'm not well researched on it yet, but many are reporting good pain relieve when using one of the types (evidently, there are several). I would suggest that you do your own research on it before trying it though, and to be sure that you get it from a very reliable source.

The other things is that as you get further into your treatments, the pain that is being caused by these infections should lessen. So do be sure to continue on with the protocols.

Do not use kratom. Its addictive. It will work wonders but you will become dependent on it like any other opiate drug.

Thank you for your input on the kratom, MAF! Did you or someone you know use it? Just curious, as I said, I've not done the research, but thought I should mention it.

Having had these infections for that long, Rkd, you have a long journey ahead of you. Be prepared for that. It's not that there is that much difference between pharma and herbs when treating these infections - the difference that you speak of is when treating far less complex bacteria than these. Borrelia (the Lyme bacteria) is one of the most complex bacteria and infections known at this time. It can change between three different forms, as well as hide out in biofilms to wait until it no longer perceives any threats before coming back out "into the open" to continue on. Even those using pharma abx will often not see any improvements before 2 - 6 months.

Part of that is because the bacteria divides and replicates at a very slow pace. Not the minutes, hours or even days like most bacteria, but only once every 3 - 6 weeks - so it can take up to 12 weeks (3 months) just to catch the bacteria 'cycle' twice - and that's only going to kill off so many bacteria each time.

So, set your sights in that this is a journey, not a sprint like it usually is for most infections. Be sure to do your research, and start everything (and I do mean everything) slowly, because after having these infection for that long, you are likely loaded with toxins as well as bacteria. One step at a time, and one day at a time for those of us that have long standing chronic infections.

Not the best news, but it's honest news.

Have you had a Western Blot done and had any Lyme specific bands come back as IND or positive?

I had to have a full 12 months of treatment before I could produce a positive Western Blot. This is because Lyme inhibits the immune function -and the testing is based on enough antibodies being produced by the immune system to get a positive.

Have you taken this quiz? It's Dr. Horowitz's tick-borne infection evaluation: lymeontario.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Horowitz-Questionnaire.pdf

These are things that can help you understand if you have these infections or something else going on. Many of us have to assume we have these infections at first.

For me personally, getting the inflammation under control has gone a long way towards pain relief. Are you doing anything for getting the inflammation under control?

Sorry, I didn't see that thread!

Well, on that questionnaire, it says: "If you scored 46 or more, you have a high probability of a tick-borne disorder...."

And with the unreliability of the current testing, that questionnaire is likely one of the best tools we have to help us determine if we have tick-borne infections.