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LL Dr. appt. coming up - your thoughts on antibiotic choice

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Posted 3/25/2017 3:04 PM (GMT 0)
Dr. Rawls says do a 30 day break in between changing antibiotics.

He really is not a fan of continued antibiotics because of the severe long term damage they can do to the body.

"While use of any antibiotic can potentially lead to C. diff overgrowth, it most commonly occurs with the use of an antibiotic that is broad-spectrum, or able to kill a wide variety of bacteria. It also happens more often when multiple antibiotics are needed to fight infection and when the antibiotics need to be taken for a long period of time."

Post Edited (PeteZa) : 3/25/2017 9:09:00 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/25/2017 3:18 PM (GMT 0)
While I may agree with Dr. Rawls on a lot of things, this forum will remain "open and welcoming" to all those that do choose to use pharma abx for as long as they see fit. We will not exclude anyone for their choice in treatments, as long as they are not overtly dangerous - then we might try to change their mind is all.

Many people stay on abx for many years and will finally reach remission on pharma abx alone. It's just that they aren't for everyone - but everyone must choose their own path.
Posted 3/25/2017 3:33 PM (GMT 0)

k07 said...
Could it possibly be something other than lyme? You have mercury fillings right?

I'm just afraid you will continue with these abx and still not get rid of those symptoms.

Yes, I do. And that is a possibility.

If, after treating the three B's, and I'm still not symptom free - I will have to look into that.

It will cost me thousands of dollars to have a biological dentist remove them (Would have to travel each time)
Posted 3/25/2017 3:37 PM (GMT 0)

k07 said...
It would be interesting if you tried the LDI and it knocked any symptoms out.

I am only giving the abx a year or two. Maybe less if I see no improvements.

How long have you been treating so far, K07? Have you had much improvement?
Posted 3/25/2017 3:41 PM (GMT 0)

PeteZa said...
Dr. Rawls says do a 30 day break in between changing antibiotics.

He really is not a fan of continued antibiotics because of the severe long term damage they can do to the body.

"While use of any antibiotic can potentially lead to C. diff overgrowth, it most commonly occurs with the use of an antibiotic that is broad-spectrum, or able to kill a wide variety of bacteria. It also happens more often when multiple antibiotics are needed to fight infection and when the antibiotics need to be taken for a long period of time."

30 day break in between antibiotics isn't wise. Some people change antibiotics every few months...so taking a 30 day break after two months...doesn't make sense at all.

I don't think I would follow Dr. Rawls advice on antibiotic treatment:

"Doxycycline covers for borrelia and coinfections except babesia. Other antibiotics can be added at the discretion of the healthcare provider.
Whether a single antibiotic or combination antibiotics are used, therapy should only extend for 30 days or until symptoms resolve. Detrimental effects accumulate the longer antibiotics are used.
A break of at least 30 days should be taken before repeating antibiotic therapy to allow the immune system and intestinal tract to recover."

Doxycycline does NOT cover coinfections...doesn't even cover lyme.
He doesn't appear to be knowledgeable about treating lyme and co's with antibiotics.
Posted 3/25/2017 3:48 PM (GMT 0)
So, the thread was asking for opinions on what would be a good antibiotic to take with the Mepron (and minocycline)...as I have a LLND appt. in a couple of weeks.

It wasn't a debate on whether or not I should continue with antibiotics.
But thank you all for your concerns...

I have done my research...and know the risks.

I can't remember exactly how many symptoms I've had - between 30 and 40 ...and am down to 10 or less.
I have a lot of improvements. I have a couple really stubborn ones...one being my very first symptom area...and is unfortunately my worst symptom.
I should make a symptom list and track my symptoms to be sure....i've gotten lazy with my documentation.
Posted 3/25/2017 4:12 PM (GMT 0)
I am treating lyme and babesia. I am taking azithromycin, artemisia and recently started cat's claw. My doctor wants me to add in Ceftin now. Feeling pretty bad so I am very hesitant and waiting for a little bit.

Girlie, what about azithromycin? I think it is good for bart and lyme.
Posted 3/25/2017 4:26 PM (GMT 0)

Loutucky said...
I am treating lyme and babesia. I am taking azithromycin, artemisia and recently started cat's claw. My doctor wants me to add in Ceftin now. Feeling pretty bad so I am very hesitant and waiting for a little bit.

Girlie, what about azithromycin? I think it is good for bart and lyme.

I've thought about it...but with it's long half-life..not sure if it works well with the pulsing approach...because it would be in my system on the off days.
Posted 3/25/2017 4:39 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie, I understand. I am supposed to pulse the zith on MWF with the malarone but for me, I actually feel better on it everyday. Good luck!
Posted 3/25/2017 5:03 PM (GMT 0)

Loutucky said...
Girlie, I understand. I am supposed to pulse the zith on MWF with the malarone but for me, I actually feel better on it everyday. Good luck!

Okay - so you are with a Dr. who pulses...and zithro is still good on that protocol?


Have you taken any weeks off yet? ...and if so...how'd you feel on the 'off' weeks.
Posted 3/25/2017 5:20 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie, I pulsed the zith for two months by just taking it on MWF. I felt better taking it everyday because my lyme symptoms come back when I am off of it for a day and especially the weekends.

My doctor now wants me to pulse Zith on MWF and take Ceftin on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday. I may do that but I am struggling with Artemisia right now and scared to change things up even more.
Posted 3/25/2017 5:30 PM (GMT 0)
So the Artemisia is hitting you hard?

With typical babs symptoms?

Can you add the Ceftin in slowly...like the first week just do Tuesday...then the next week do Tuesday/Thursday....etc.?
Posted 3/25/2017 5:32 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...

k07 said...
It would be interesting if you tried the LDI and it knocked any symptoms out.

I am only giving the abx a year or two. Maybe less if I see no improvements.

How long have you been treating so far, K07? Have you had much improvement?

Sorry, got off track of your question. You help so many so I know you will do the right thing.

I just started abx Mar 1. Mino/plaq and rifampin soon. I have tried abx before but i think it was for 6 wks. I've been doing herbs for over a year. Like you, just a handful of symptoms. It is so hard to know what to do. I just saw dr last week so hoping bloodwork turns up something. He does not think babs for me but lyme, bart-like infection (re-ran brucella) and also some mold.
Posted 3/25/2017 5:38 PM (GMT 0)

k07 said...

Girlie said...

k07 said...
It would be interesting if you tried the LDI and it knocked any symptoms out.

I am only giving the abx a year or two. Maybe less if I see no improvements.

How long have you been treating so far, K07? Have you had much improvement?

Sorry, got off track of your question. You help so many so I know you will do the right thing.

I just started abx Mar 1. Mino/plaq and rifampin soon. I have tried abx before but i think it was for 6 wks. I've been doing herbs for over a year. Like you, just a handful of symptoms. It is so hard to know what to do. I just saw dr last week so hoping bloodwork turns up something. He does not think babs for me but lyme, bart-like infection (re-ran brucella) and also some mold.

I almost did the LDI - had the sublingual here at home...and chickened out..lol.

Okay - you were doing herbals.
I thought you were seeing Dr. H.

Mine is complicated because i may have been re-infected last spring - by my sick cat. I tested positive via pcr the following October.
...and no full Babesia protocol until now....too much wasted time.
I really should be at about a year and a half...not two and a half....


LDI is something I would try before removing my amalgams....it would be thousands of dollars for me to do that.
Posted 3/25/2017 5:44 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie, I am sure my doctor would let me start Ceftin low and slow. She just wants me to give it a try.

I've tried lots of drugs for lyme. My doctor thinks Dapsone is great for persistent lyme but I broke out in a burning rash after a week. I wish it would have worked.

Artemisia is way worse for me than malarone as far as herx. It makes my babesia and my lyme symptoms much worse. I react to everything.
Posted 3/25/2017 5:56 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie, I wanted to mention that while I thought I was dying (herx) while on the Doxy, my next abx was Zith and I didn't herx on it much if at all, that I remember.

Of course the mono protocol didn't do me much good that I can tell, but I'm just putting it out there that in comparison for me, the zith was rather mild in the way of herxing. I don't know how others fared with it in that manner.

It just occurred to me that I probably wasn't hitting much with it if I wasn't herxing, because I didn't have my detox things together yet at that stage.
Posted 3/25/2017 6:21 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...

k07 said...

Girlie said...

k07 said...
It would be interesting if you tried the LDI and it knocked any symptoms out.

I am only giving the abx a year or two. Maybe less if I see no improvements.

How long have you been treating so far, K07? Have you had much improvement?

Sorry, got off track of your question. You help so many so I know you will do the right thing.

I just started abx Mar 1. Mino/plaq and rifampin soon. I have tried abx before but i think it was for 6 wks. I've been doing herbs for over a year. Like you, just a handful of symptoms. It is so hard to know what to do. I just saw dr last week so hoping bloodwork turns up something. He does not think babs for me but lyme, bart-like infection (re-ran brucella) and also some mold.

I almost did the LDI - had the sublingual here at home...and chickened out..lol.

Okay - you were doing herbals.
I thought you were seeing Dr. H.

Mine is complicated because i may have been re-infected last spring - by my sick cat. I tested positive via pcr the following October.
...and no full Babesia protocol until now....too much wasted time.
I really should be at about a year and a half...not two and a half....


LDI is something I would try before removing my amalgams....it would be thousands of dollars for me to do that.

I do see him. We started on abx but then stopped when my mold test came back +. Now back at it. I've only been seeing him for about 8 months.

Yeah, you kinda have to go after bart with the + test.

I have old LDI still in fridge. So many times I've been tempted...
Posted 3/25/2017 6:36 PM (GMT 0)

k07 said...

Girlie said...

k07 said...

Girlie said...

k07 said...
It would be interesting if you tried the LDI and it knocked any symptoms out.

I am only giving the abx a year or two. Maybe less if I see no improvements.

How long have you been treating so far, K07? Have you had much improvement?

Sorry, got off track of your question. You help so many so I know you will do the right thing.

I just started abx Mar 1. Mino/plaq and rifampin soon. I have tried abx before but i think it was for 6 wks. I've been doing herbs for over a year. Like you, just a handful of symptoms. It is so hard to know what to do. I just saw dr last week so hoping bloodwork turns up something. He does not think babs for me but lyme, bart-like infection (re-ran brucella) and also some mold.

I almost did the LDI - had the sublingual here at home...and chickened out..lol.

Okay - you were doing herbals.
I thought you were seeing Dr. H.

Mine is complicated because i may have been re-infected last spring - by my sick cat. I tested positive via pcr the following October.
...and no full Babesia protocol until now....too much wasted time.
I really should be at about a year and a half...not two and a half....


LDI is something I would try before removing my amalgams....it would be thousands of dollars for me to do that.

I do see him. We started on abx but then stopped when my mold test came back +. Now back at it. I've only been seeing him for about 8 months.

Yeah, you kinda have to go after bart with the + test.

I have old LDI still in fridge. So many times I've been tempted...

I thought you did do the LDI K07?

no...just threatened to?...lol
Posted 3/25/2017 6:59 PM (GMT 0)
No, i did. That was pretty much first thing i tried (not with dr h)
Posted 3/25/2017 11:56 PM (GMT 0)

Loutucky said...
Girlie, I am sure my doctor would let me start Ceftin low and slow. She just wants me to give it a try.

I've tried lots of drugs for lyme. My doctor thinks Dapsone is great for persistent lyme but I broke out in a burning rash after a week. I wish it would have worked.

Artemisia is way worse for me than malarone as far as herx. It makes my babesia and my lyme symptoms much worse. I react to everything.

Have you had some success with what you've tried so far?
Posted 3/25/2017 11:58 PM (GMT 0)

julymorning said...
Girlie, I wanted to mention that while I thought I was dying (herx) while on the Doxy, my next abx was Zith and I didn't herx on it much if at all, that I remember.

Of course the mono protocol didn't do me much good that I can tell, but I'm just putting it out there that in comparison for me, the zith was rather mild in the way of herxing. I don't know how others fared with it in that manner.

It just occurred to me that I probably wasn't hitting much with it if I wasn't herxing, because I didn't have my detox things together yet at that stage.

I herxed on Day 4 of doxy.

I can't remember zithro. I'm not sure if it's ideal when I'm trying to pulse with drug 'holidays'. With it's long half -life it would still be in your system on the 'off' days...and the whole purpose of the drug holidays is so your immune system steps up to do the work.
Posted 3/26/2017 2:44 AM (GMT 0)
Girlie, I'm herxing horrible right now with symptoms I've never had. No improvement yet but I am hopeful. I haven't been treating babesia very long and my body is definitely responding.
Posted 3/26/2017 2:50 AM (GMT 0)
So are you just on Artemisia?

Or malarone too?
Zith?
Posted 3/26/2017 5:15 AM (GMT 0)
Girlie have you looked into your mercury fillings?

Remember doctors H, perhaps in my opinion the top Lyme and co-infection/chronic disease doctor on the entire planet. He says imagine 16 nails in someone's foot, the patient will not get better unless all nails are removed from the foot. And guess what? One of those nails is mercury poisoning. The immune system is sluggish, detox pathways are sluggish, enzymatic reactions are sluggish in the body.

I know for a fact I'm mercury toxic so I'm focusing on that.
Posted 3/26/2017 5:39 AM (GMT 0)

LymePickle said...
Girlie have you looked into your mercury fillings?

Remember doctors H, perhaps in my opinion the top Lyme and co-infection/chronic disease doctor on the entire planet. He says imagine 16 nails in someone's foot, the patient will not get better unless all nails are removed from the foot. And guess what? One of those nails is mercury poisoning. The immune system is sluggish, detox pathways are sluggish, enzymatic reactions are sluggish in the body.

I know for a fact I'm mercury toxic so I'm focusing on that.

K07 already mentioned that - and yes it's a possibility. BTW - since we're talking about Dr. H - have you thought about Babesia? He believes that an asymptomatic infection should be considered. Dr J and I believe Dr B treat all three B's now.

As far as addressing the mercury - Im going to treat the three B's before I consider heavy metals - because I was fine before I was infected - but I do know it could be holding me back but it makes more sense to me to treat all three B's first, since I've only been sick since I was infected. And it's not going to cost me several thousand dollars. There isn't a biological dentist close to where I live and you can only do one at a time - so it would be a few trips.

What protocol are you using to detox your metals? Did you get tested first?
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