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Andrographis - ok longterm?

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Posted 1/6/2017 4:00 PM (GMT 0)
Is it ok to take Andro longterm? I've been on it for a year. Was thinking of swapping out for eleuthero.

I am around 75%. Considering upping my dosage of herbs to see if I can make more gains. I take the Green Dragon core protocol but I think the overall daily dosage may be too low. Currently on:
500 mg JK - 3x a day - 1500 mg
500 mg CC - 3x a day - 1500 mg
430 mg Andro - 3x a day - 1290 mg
Posted 1/6/2017 4:07 PM (GMT 0)
According to the dosing LB Core Protocol instructions I received from Green Dragon, people taking the capsules should titrate up to 12 capsules 4X per day.

It wasn't until I followed the advice of the Buhner-recommended herbalist I consulted (owner of Green Dragon) and started taking higher doses 4x per day that I am finally closing the gap.

I see no reason why you can't continue with Andro - per the instructions I received from the herbalist "Andrographis addresses the infection throughout the body with influence on the heart, CNS and supports immune function".

I don't see Eleuthero as a substitute for Andro because it has no antimicrobial properties but it's a great adaptogen and I was advised by the herbalist to continue taking it.
Posted 1/6/2017 4:15 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks, CD. I had been following the bottle instructions, 3 caps, 3-4x daily. So you are saying a total of 48 caps total a day? I may have to empty them into water! Or, buy the powder loose. Crazy that for a year I've basically only been on a 1/4 of the full dose.
Posted 1/6/2017 4:28 PM (GMT 0)
We have to remember that we are all different - some may not ever be able to get to the dose you are on currently, K07, and some need higher doses, as CD explained.

Buhner mentions this many times, that the doses that he states are guidelines not absolutes. Some may need a higher dose of one or two herbs, or the whole protocol may need to be taken at higher doses, yet some will heal with lower doses. It's all about trial and error and knowing your body, from what I see.
Posted 1/6/2017 4:48 PM (GMT 0)

k07 said...
Thanks, CD. I had been following the bottle instructions, 3 caps, 3-4x daily. So you are saying a total of 48 caps total a day? I may have to empty them into water! Or, buy the powder loose. Crazy that for a year I've basically only been on a 1/4 of the full dose.

Happy to help. You're not alone.

I'd been taking the maximum doses listed in Buhner's books for his full Lyme, Babesia and Bartonella protocols and got from 90% to 98% after 4 months (that was December 2015).

I kept doing the same thing for another 8 months but no further improvements. At first I thought the extreme life stress I'd been dealing with along with an unusually uncooperative thyroid was to blame.

By August of last year, I was beyond frustrated and that's when I finally consulted the herbalist.

After hearing his recommendations, I was reminded of Buhner's words in his books about each of us finding our own optimal dose (he mentions 250 lb. men being leveled by 5 drops and small women being able to take tablespoons of tinctures).

I also noted that Buhner does list more frequent dosing for certain herbs (Japanese Knotweed is one - he lists 1/2 tsp up to 12 times daily (!!!) for numbness).

Anyway, now that I've been taking larger doses of a smaller number of herbs 4x daily, I got up to 99%.

I recently started taking Japanese Knotweed more frequently on my own (along with the Dan Shen/Red Sage more frequently which was per the herbalist's advice) and I feel like I'm at 99.5%

My decision to reintroduce Sida Acuta recently (per Buhner's advice for twitches) seems to be taming the mild ones I had.

I doubt a healthy person would question what's going on with my body now and I have to really pay attention to even notice anything....and there are times when I'm not noticing anything by way of symptoms - yay!

I so regret not consulting the herbalist MUCH sooner. I would have saved a boatload of money...and frustration.
Posted 1/6/2017 11:08 PM (GMT 0)
Andrographis is a killer and eulethro is like ginsing for energy.maybe sifa or houttynia ...? 3 x 4 would be 12 a day
Posted 3/31/2017 9:02 PM (GMT 0)
CD3764, your Lyme recovery is just great. I think I'm on a near similar recovery path as yours. Even your footnote timeline sounds much like mine (I'm just a bit behind you). I just surpassed 8 months treatment with the Buhner protocol. I, too, use GD. I have just gotten myself to the maximum (12-4x). I'm looking to max this out for at least the next 4 months.

Are you going to continue using the GD Protocol moving forward or are you going to taper off and test the waters? 99.5% is pretty darn good and I'm trying to figure out a plan past what Buhner suggests as 12 months. He does mention low dose is great for anyone anyway past his suggested protocol.
Posted 3/31/2017 9:12 PM (GMT 0)
at20148 - I hope CD will be back on to respond to your post.



CD actually uses tinctures...in fact I believe she even made her own. Borrelia/Bart/Babesia.

The 4X daily is what the herbalist told her to do - but it is tinctures she is taking.

(I can't say for sure...but I don't think she ever did the capsules...even in the beginning)
Posted 3/31/2017 9:13 PM (GMT 0)

at20148 said...
CD3764, your Lyme recovery is just great. I think I'm on a near similar recovery path as yours. Even your footnote timeline sounds much like mine (I'm just a bit behind you). I just surpassed 8 months treatment with the Buhner protocol. I, too, use GD. I have just gotten myself to the maximum (12-4x). I'm looking to max this out for at least the next 4 months.

Are you going to continue using the GD Protocol moving forward or are you going to taper off and test the waters? 99.5% is pretty darn good and I'm trying to figure out a plan past what Buhner suggests as 12 months. He does mention low dose is great for anyone anyway past his suggested protocol.

Congratulations on your improvements, at20148...may they continue!
Posted 3/31/2017 10:59 PM (GMT 0)

at20148 said...
CD3764, your Lyme recovery is just great. I think I'm on a near similar recovery path as yours. Even your footnote timeline sounds much like mine (I'm just a bit behind you). I just surpassed 8 months treatment with the Buhner protocol. I, too, use GD. I have just gotten myself to the maximum (12-4x). I'm looking to max this out for at least the next 4 months.

Are you going to continue using the GD Protocol moving forward or are you going to taper off and test the waters? 99.5% is pretty darn good and I'm trying to figure out a plan past what Buhner suggests as 12 months. He does mention low dose is great for anyone anyway past his suggested protocol.

Hi at20148!

Congrats on the healing you've achieved thus far!

I can't say that I agree you're just a bit behind me.....I started Buhner in August 2015.

I finally decided to consult a Buhner-recommended herbalist a year later and it was his advice that got me headed towards the finish line.

He had me cut way back on the number of herbs I'd been taking and increased the doses of the ones I continued. And, yes, he had me dosing 4x per day (instead of the 3x/day I'd been doing. He also had me taking Dan Shen as frequently as every hour to help with acute symptoms.

I adjusted the doses and added a few herbs along the way. Right now, I'm down to dosing 3x per day and haven't really had to take any extra doses except a few times after exercising.

As Girlie mentioned, I make my own tinctures (for over a year) and I encapsulate a few herbs. My healing has continued to the extent of flares with stuff like tingling or similar parasthesias.

I plan on eventually taking Japanese Knotweed, Cat's Claw, Eleuthero, Astragalus and Cordyceps (lower doses less frequently) for the rest of my life - the benefits of each are just too numerous for me to consider doing otherwise. In the meantime, I'll let my body continue to guide me.

It's been a long journey and I am so grateful to be where I am right now. It's great to know I'm not alone - best wishes for your continued healing!!!
Posted 3/31/2017 11:16 PM (GMT 0)
Wow, to all of you, this is so encouraging to read. Thank you so much and I am so happy for your improvements!!!

I have been struggling the past few days with the thought of am I ever going to get past 90 %. I am grateful I made it this far in 6 months, but you know....we all want the full 100.

I also have a llmd that only does ABX, so I've been doing Buhner with the help of this community and Buhner books.

This gives me so much hope!!!!
Take care, Jo
Posted 4/1/2017 3:29 AM (GMT 0)
CD,

You say you are at 98%. That's very near 100%. You must be feeling pretty great.

What is the last 2%? I would imagine 2% is like a symptom or two and it's very mild and seldom?

So I wonder, why the frustration?

I'm stuck on a symptom or two and they are mild and seldom. Some times I think a complete 100% is not obtainable after going through something like lyme perhaps. And at what point do we lymies except that feeling 98% is the new 100% and just be happy we feel 98% great?
Posted 4/1/2017 5:32 AM (GMT 0)
been taking andrographis extract for 2yrs now, perfectly safe but 1% of the population has allergy and develops a rather painful skin rash. not a problem with u since u are taking it for 1yr already
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